An umpteenth viewing and... three revelations

[ednbarby]

So I just got done seeing it for my I've-seriously-lost-count (I'm guessing around 20th) time on HBO, and here are the new things I've come away with:

1.)  DavidInHartford was right - Jack would vote Republican.  I got that from this line "Why bother earning it? - if the taxes don't eat it up, the inflation will."  Taxes = Democrats.  Why did I never see that before?  In general?  I've wondered for years why my blue collar brothers are such Republicans - why anyone who works basically minimum wage and barely squeaks by would vote Republican - and I got it answered for me tonight.  Jack would vote Republican because he sees the Democrats as eating away the money he makes in taxes.  Ennis, if at all, would vote Democrat because he secretly sides with them for pulling for the "little man."  David was right.

2.)  Brokeback Mountain is my Cry Therapy.  A coworker goes to Busch Gardens in Tampa every year to ride about the scariest roller coaster in the world.  Over and over and over again.  Why?  So he can scream his lungs out.  And feel fresh and new afterwards.  Brokeback Mountain is the only thing, just about, in this world that can make me cry.  Not cry - weep.  I still take a low dosage of antidepressants since the bout I had with post-partum depression five years ago - I've tried to wean myself off of them three times, now, and it keeps coming back.  But the thing about SSRIs is that they make something in your brain kick in just when you're about to cry - and - stop it.  Must be a substance all straight men have in their brains naturally.  So, just when I've been at my most vulnerable in my everyday life - fighting with my husband - at my wit's end with my 4-year-old - feeling like a failure at my job - I haven't been able to squeeze out a single tear.  But Brokeback makes me weep.  Even after nineteen or some odd viewings.  I need Brokeback.

3.)  The Shirts.  OK.  How THE HELL can anyone not be moved by the friggin' shirts???  It must be homophobia and nothing else.  Otherwise, I don't get how you can come to a point in a movie where you see that someone has carried a torch FOR TWENTY FUCKING YEARS to the extent that they have spirited away their love's shirt and kept it hidden in a childhood closet, covered over with their own shirt from that same period, and not be reduced to a PUDDLE OF FUCKING TEARS.  What is FUCKING WRONG with you?  I'm sorry, but again, I have the diagnosis:  Homophobia.  You CANNOT get past the fact that these are two men instead of a man and a woman, can you?  Allow me to turn all those hackneyed premises on their ears for a moment and ask you this:  If this were a story about a man and a woman and say... a notebook... would you not be equally as moved?  Morons.

[Kd5000]

Democrat voters were as rare in Wy as were Republican voters in the Deep South/ TX panhandle during that time period.    
Of course, things have changed. Right now,  I'd say a Jack type would be a Republican and Ennis would be a Democrat.

I though the mention of inflation and smoking the joint were to let us know that there now in the 1970's. Inflation was a big concern in that decade.  Some ppl have complained to me they needed a better time guideline. I guess they want the year the events are transpiring to be labeled at the beginning of every new "chapter."

Yes, I sent an e-mail to a film critic who had a big article the day after the OSCARS saying why the better picture won.  He was quite upset in his  reply e-mail to me explaining that not enough of the film was devoted to showing Jack and Ennis falling in love, being in love, etc. But he did mention the shirts as being evidence they had feelings for each other, but they needed more moments like that (the shirts). Like HELLO!   Should Juliet should have done something more drastic then committing suicide to show she loved Romeo.   

[RouxB]

After my upteenth viewings, here is (some of) what I came away with tonight:

Jack's soul did not "die" after Ennis divorce scene (not that I really thought that it did)

Ennis did own up to his queerness-lake scene-but then denies it again with "I know what they got for boys like you" to Jack.

I, yep me, am ready to accept that Jack needed to leave Ennis in order to save them both. But, possibly contrarily, I think Ennis was at a cross roads and, had Jack not died, something would have changed.

I am wrung out fromt his viewing. I haven't been hit this hard since my 5th, and most sorrowful, viewing in Birmingham while with my father.

I wish this had spell check...

[ednbarby]

Yes, I sent an e-mail to a film critic who had a big article the day after the OSCARS saying why the better picture won.  He was quite upset in his  reply e-mail to me explaining that not enough of the film was devoted to showing Jack and Ennis falling in love, being in love, etc. But he did mention the shirts as being evidence they had feelings for each other, but they needed more moments like that (the shirts). Like HELLO!   Should Juliet should have done something more drastic then committing suicide to show she loved Romeo.   

Exactly.  Honestly, it all boils down to this:  If you don't get it, you either a.) don't get Romeo and Juliet or b.) are a homophobe.

There I go being all black and white and no gray again, but hell, to me, black and white is all there is.

[silkncense]

I, yep me, am ready to accept that Jack needed to leave Ennis in order to save them both. But, possibly contrarily, I think Ennis was at a cross roads and, had Jack not died, something would have changed.

I CAN'T believe that Ennis would (as opposed to 'needed' to) leave Ennis.  He'd think about it, he'd talk about it, he'd threaten it...but he wouldn't.  At least not then.  If he'd been at that point, he would not have gone to Ennis & held him the way he did when Ennis collapsed.  His mind may have been there, but his heart definitely wasn't.

And, so WHY is the impact different at different times?  And why to us and not to others -that is still a mystery to me.

[serious crayons]

1.)  DavidInHartford was right - Jack would vote Republican.  I got that from this line "Why bother earning it? - if the taxes don't eat it up, the inflation will."  Taxes = Democrats.  Why did I never see that before?  In general?  I've wondered for years why my blue collar brothers are such Republicans - why anyone who works basically minimum wage and barely squeaks by would vote Republican - and I got it answered for me tonight.  Jack would vote Republican because he sees the Democrats as eating away the money he makes in taxes.  Ennis, if at all, would vote Democrat because he secretly sides with them for pulling for the "little man."  David was right.

I think it's possible that Jack might have voted Republican, though I would guess it might be more a matter of his being wealthy at that point (that, and his red-state environment) than his blue-collar background. My understanding is that traditionally Democratic working-class folks didn't start shifting to the Republican party in huge numbers until the '80s, when conservatives realized they could use wedge issues like gay rights and abortion and affirmative action and flag-burning and school prayer to divide socially liberal and socially conservative Democrats.

I'm not sure how Jack or Ennis would have stood on any of those issues (except maybe -- secretly -- gay rights and the fire and brimstone crowd's school prayer). Both seem pretty apolitical.

[nakymaton]

I think it's possible that Jack might have voted Republican, though I would guess it might be more a matter of his being wealthy at that point (that, and his red-state environment) than his blue-collar background. My understanding is that traditionally Democratic working-class folks didn't start shifting to the Republican party in huge numbers until the '80s, when conservatives realized they could use wedge issues like gay rights and abortion and affirmative action and flag-burning and school prayer to divide socially liberal and socially conservative Democrats.

Except that regional differences are also very important. In the Northeast or the upper Midwest during the 1970's, a wealthy person would have been more likely to vote Republican, and a working class person would have been more likely to vote Democrat. But the Mountain West has been a Republican stronghold for a long time ("there were seven Democrats in Hinsdale County, and you, you voracious man-eating son-of-a-bitch, you ate five of them" -- quote from the trial of Alferd Packer, infamous Colorado cannibal, from sometime in the late 1800's). (And Texas was a Democratic stronghold until the 1994 election cleared out a lot of the Southern conservative Democrats -- remember that Republicans ran Reconstruction, and whites in the old Confederacy wouldn't vote for Republicans until the Democrats started supporting the Civil Rights movement.) The biggest question for me about Jack's voting would be whether he was loyal to his Wyoming roots and/or was rebellious against his Texan in-laws. (He probably would have voted for Reagan, though, regardless.)

I doubt that Ennis voted.

[David]

I'm kinda glad I don't have HBO.     I can't tell you the last time I watched the movie.    It just depresses me too much.    I have all the happy scenes in my head already thank you.   

Other than Jacks Death, the part that disturbs me is the Lake scene.    Jack has been seeing Randall since 1978, thats five years!     His frustration peaked and broke him that day.    I am still haunted by that look on his face as Ennis drove away.



Then the worse part.   Ennis dumps Cassie as he now knows that Jack is the only one for him.     Then the postcard comes back.....  UGH.      Well, we all know the rest.

No, I won't watch it again looking for more insight.   I feel that I fully understand exactly what Anne Proulx was writing about.   Love is hard.   Love hurts sometimes.   And sometimes Love gets away from you.

[Front-Ranger]

Well, what a cheery place this is!! I am actually pretty happy right now--a Dem governor AND a Dem legislature in Colorado, for the first time since the Kennedy administration--so I feel like I could paw the white out of the moon. But speaking of the moon, is it gettin to be full moon time again? Seems to me some people are feelin the tug of the tides, so to speak. Time to organize one of those full moon chats.

[silkncense]

David -

Maybe that is why I can (and do) still watch it.  I see it differently.  Jack repeatedly told his father that he and "Ennis Del Mar' would come up there someday.  But only once did he mention "some ranch neighbor of his..."  Frustrated.  Hurt.  Even at the brink maybe - but Jack didn't let him go, he still held onto Ennis.  That's what I saw. 

[ednbarby]

Me, too.  Because notice (and I think it was you who first pointed this out, LJ), Jack didn't give that ranch neighbor of his a name when mentioning him to Old Man Twist.

I see Jack going up to Lightning Flat to see the folks for a few days after leaving that last campsite, and I see Old Man Twist saying something snide to him about Ennis (e.g., "Whatever happened to that Ennis Del Mar you always used to mention?  Just another one of those ideas of yours that never come to pass?") and him retorting with something like, "The hell with him.  I got another friend now - ranch neighbor of mine - gonna come up here with me."  And I can see him saying that regardless of whether he and Randall were still/ever were an item just to shut his father up.

To me, the tragedy is all the more heart-wrenching in that Ennis was starting to have a change of heart and that had Jack made him an ultimatum on that November 7 reunion that never came to pass, he might not have let him go.  But maybe I'm just thinkin' out loud.

[RouxB]

Barb-

I like where you are goin with that thought. I, too, think Ennis was at his breaking point. Given the choice of Jack's way of the highway, I believe he would have taken Jack's way.

For some reason the viewing last night broke my sadness. I cried for hours after watching it (had to have an Elle intervention) but I came away for the first time not sad for Ennis and Jack. I didn't dream about it, didn't wake up with their heartache as my own. I feel no need for fan fiction anymore to make it all better. What a profound shift for me. When all the weeping was over, I just had a deep deep appreciation for the beauty and wonder and power of this story. I had no need to alter or question it-I only had to love it. 

 

[ednbarby]

That's wonderful news, Rouxb.  You know when I had my moment of Zen where that's concerned?  After my first viewing of it in SF in June.  As you recall, "The Maker Makes" drove me out of the theater in a puddle of tears.  I had to splash my face with cold(ish) water from the restroom sink afterwards repeatedly for several minutes to make my own waterworks stop long enough to intelligibly meet Nick in the lobby (who I still think must have thought I was a total weirdo for being so discombobulated when we met).

What I've not said is that after Little Orphan Andy's, I went back to my hotel room and sobbed myself to sleep.  Musta been at least an hour's worth - something I've never done in my life.  Sad, but true.  And I woke up dry.  And at peace with the plight of our boys.  That next night, I wept a little, but I could have easily sat through "The Maker Makes" just enjoying the beauty of the song and the art of which it spoke - I just excused myself as a preventive measure. 

[RouxB]

I have joy that I was able to share that time with you 

I can't guarantee that this morning's clarity will stay with me  , I fall back into E/J dispair for odd and unknown reasons but at least I know it can be had. I am re-energized for the story but in a far less dependent way than I have in the past-finally really letting myself feel and acknowledge where my sadness and attachment come from so I can let it go.

I feel like I have come full circle and am back to the beginning-back to where I was last December when I first saw the movie. I am re-discovering the impact it originally had on me and am recommitting to the changes that needed to start a year ago but went by the wayside.

I am back on the path

 

[Momof2]

Barb-

I like where you are goin with that thought. I, too, think Ennis was at his breaking point. Given the choice of Jack's way of the highway, I believe he would have taken Jack's way.

For some reason the viewing last night broke my sadness. I cried for hours after watching it (had to have an Elle intervention) but I came away for the first time not sad for Ennis and Jack. I didn't dream about it, didn't wake up with their heartache as my own. I feel no need for fan fiction anymore to make it all better. What a profound shift for me. When all the weeping was over, I just had a deep deep appreciation for the beauty and wonder and power of this story. I had no need to alter or question it-I only had to love it. 

 

I agree.   I think the lake scene was Ennis' breaking point.  When he said, Jack I just cant stand this no more.  I think he meant that he could not stand the being apart and having to fight to get time together.  I think he had come to the terms with the fact that he was in love with Jack and wanted to be together.  Then the postcard.  I guess that is why life is so unfair.  I am happy that they had the 20 years together.  That is a long time to be deeply in love with someone.  To be so in love that you are one. 

[Momof2]

The Shirts.  OK.  How THE HELL can anyone not be moved by the friggin' shirts???  It must be homophobia and nothing else.  Otherwise, I don't get how you can come to a point in a movie where you see that someone has carried a torch FOR TWENTY FUCKING YEARS to the extent that they have spirited away their love's shirt and kept it hidden in a childhood closet, covered over with their own shirt from that same period, and not be reduced to a PUDDLE OF FUCKING TEARS.  What is FUCKING WRONG with you?  I'm sorry, but again, I have the diagnosis:  Homophobia.  You CANNOT get past the fact that these are two men instead of a man and a woman, can you?  Allow me to turn all those hackneyed premises on their ears for a moment and ask you this:  If this were a story about a man and a woman and say... a notebook... would you not be equally as moved?  Morons.
Amen.  I have mentioned before that the 1st love of my life died while we were Freshman in college.  Total devestation and to this day the 2nd greatest love of my life.  We started dating in 9th grade.  I saved everything he ever gave me.  I had a note he wrote me while at church one night and slipped it to me.  Just one of those silly little notes.  I was with my sister the other day and we were going through some old things and I found the little bag I kept all of his stuff in.  I know it is stupid.  I opened it up and the first thing that fell out was that little note.  I read it and started crying.  My sister was looking at me and then my husband came in there.  He asked me what was wrong.  My sister said she had no idea.  I showed him the note and he smiled.  He knew my 1st love.  He just looked so mellow.  He said, Isnt it amazing how something that old can bring back such strong memories of love.  My sister with mouth hanging open just sat there.  It was just a stupid little note, but the love of my life knew how something that was 21 years old still meant so much to me.  He has a letter from his girlfriend that committed suicide.  Does not bother me in the least.  He loved her and it is special to him.  It reminds him as does my note that life is not fair and that even though we both lost the 1st love of our lives that we now have each other.

Homophobes will never accept or understand what the movie or the shirts mean.  That is entirely their lost and I feel sad for them.




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[ednbarby]

So true, Momof2.

My husband wept the first and only time he saw the movie, and at that point when Ennis finds the shirts and realizes what they are/meant to Jack.  He understands what loving someone that much is, and the fact that he's straight doesn't make the impact of that scene less deep at all.  When I saw that he *got* that, I felt like Nicolas Cage's character in Moonstruck when he looks over to see tears streaming down Cher's character's face during his favorite opera.  I honestly don't know what I would have done had he just not gotten it at all.  Being the all or nothing person as I am, it definitely would have put a serious damper on our relationship at the very least.