Author Topic: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry  (Read 17976 times)

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« on: November 28, 2006, 06:30:26 pm »
Is the cow the oldest domesticated animal? I'm not sure, but I do know that cows and bulls have been the companions of humankind since before recorded history. I was just reading the article "Homer in India" and came across this passage:

"One [Rajasthani epic poem] told the tale of the deeds, feuds, life, death, and avenging of Pabuji, a semi-divine warrior and incarnate god who died protecting a goddess's cattle against demonic rustlers. The other--fiour times its size, much more ambitious, and with similarities to both the Iliad and "Once Upon a Time in the West"--was the tale of a humble cattle herder named Sawai Bhoj, of the Bagravat clan; he eloped with an incarnate goddess....and so sparked a monumental caste war."

The story of cows and bulls is the stuff of Westerns but it is also in the East and everywhere; it is an archtypical myth of the time before patriarchal societies came to power when the source of milk, whether bovine or human, was worshipped.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

moremojo

  • Guest
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2006, 06:53:51 pm »
Lee, my favorite Egyptian deity is Hathor, the cow-eared goddess of love, music, and joy. She was sometimes represented as a cow, as in a beautiful New Kingdom papyrus scroll showing her as a lustrous white cow emerging from the side of a mountain.

Hathor had her dark capacity as well, when, upon overindulging in beer, she transformed into Sekhmet, the terrifiying lion-headed goddess of war, who lusted for the taste of shed blood. This seems to anticipate the ideas and imagery seen in the the Hindu mother goddess, who is known in her benign form as Parvati, refined consort of the god Shiva, who likewise can manifest in fearful mien as Kali, the wrathful, destructive dark deity who nonetheless bestows her mysterious blessings upon her adherents. Kalidasa, perhaps the greatest of Sanskrit poets, was a devotee of Kali, as was Ramakrishna, the compassionate Bengali mystic who witnessed the Divine Mother as an effulgent ocean of light.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2006, 02:32:35 pm »
That's very interesting, Scott. It has often seemed to me that Brokeback Mountain itself, with its intermingled creative and destructive energies, is like the goddess Kali.

"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,186
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2006, 02:37:12 pm »
Is the cow the oldest domesticated animal?

I think that might actually be the dog, but I could be wrong.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2006, 01:41:24 pm »
Okay, Jeff, while you're checking on that (believe me, I have a dog, and the term "domesticated" doesn't really apply to him, he's just two degrees of separation from a wolf!) I would like to relate the story of Europa. She was a fair Phoenician princess who caught the eye of Zeus and, in order to seduce her, he transformed himself into a bull. When she mounted him, he raced off to Crete with her, where she gave birth to three of his sons, one of them King Minos. The young king received a white bull from Poseidon which he was to sacrifice to the gods but he couldn't bring himself to do it. Enraged, Poseidon cast a spell over Minos's wife so that she developed a consuming passion for the bull. The palace engineer, Daedalus, built a cow costume for her and, concealed in it, she was able to consummate her lust. But a monster was born, half man, half bull. This Minotaur was sent to live in in the labyrinth along with his mother. This is the thinly concealed story of the primodial battle between the paternalistic and maternalistic cultures/religions for domination over the ancient world.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline 2robots4u

  • Sr. Ranch Hand
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2006, 03:49:14 pm »
I agree with Jeff that it is the dog.  Front-Ranger, keep in mnid that the dog IS just 2 degrees separated from a wolf, so your pet is normal :) My neighbor has 3 full-grown Dobbies and when I go over, I just wait to see which one is going to attack...buy they are really kind animals, and they seem to like me, but I still keep up my guard. You know the story...once a wolf, always a wolf....Doug

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2006, 05:10:21 pm »
Okay, 2rob, but I am going to hold you and Jeff to substantiating your claim about the dog...I wanna see some proof!

And now, I am jumping ahead of myself here, but since people have short attention spans, I want to explain why I think these ancient myths have relevance to Brokeback Mountain and to today. I'll start by quoting from the book The Once and Future Goddess:

Quote
Maleness is viewed as being entirely different from femaleness, excluding all that resembles his mother or her womb. The hero’s odyssey takes him away from all that, to “out there” where the sky’s the limit.
For 2,500 years, since the time of Aristotle, men have been talking about separation and difference and isolation as the human condition.

Males do not simply discard the aspects of themselves that they shared with their  mothers before their enforced separation, but later on after separation, those parts must be disclaimed and repressed, fought against and if need be distorted until they are unrecognized. It’s as if the best way for a boy child to keep from seeing those female things in himself, all unacceptable parts of himself, is to start actively demeaning them in others, attach disgusting labels to those aspects.

Elinor W. Gadon, quoting Wilshire and Wilshire, unpublished papers

Now I ask you to think back to the dozy embrace, and think about Ennis's words in that scene....
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Penthesilea

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,745
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2006, 05:32:21 pm »
Okay, 2rob, but I am going to hold you and Jeff to substantiating your claim about the dog...I wanna see some proof!

From wikpedia:

The first animal to be domesticated appears to have been the dog, in the Upper Paleolithic era; this preceded the domestication of other species by several millennia. In the Neolithic a number of important species (such as the goat, sheep, pig and cow) were domesticated, as part of the spread of farming which characterises this period. The goat, sheep and pig in particular were domesticated independently in the Levant and Asia.

Here's the complete article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication

I've been loving dogs for my whole life. I've read many, many (really a huge amount) of specialized books about them. Believe me, dogs were the first domesticated animals (and not only "appear to have been" like the English wikipedia says).

The German wikipedia clearly says that dogs were indeed the first domesticated animals.

Additionally, I found the following information there:

Genetic calculation show that the wolf and the dog have genetically seperated about 125 000 years ago. The earliest proof is a mold (imprint?) of a dog's paw, which is ca. 23 000 years old.

Proof enough or should I go and search for more English sources?  :)

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2006, 07:29:02 pm »
Okay, okay, fine. Shall we split this topic into one devoted to dogs and the other to cows et al?? Cause I could say plenty about dogs by themselves, 'specially sheepdogs.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2006, 01:16:25 pm »
Here is a fresco of ancient bullriders on the Greek island of Crete:

"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2006, 03:55:00 pm »
Seems we go through a Western phase about every 20 years. The last one was in 1980 with Urban Cowboy and the bullrider this time was John Travolta who, along with Debra Winger, rode a mechanical bull in a Houston bar.

Other bull/cow sightings: Gertrude Stein boasted that she was the best cow-giver around in an article in the latest New Yorker magazine. I'll let you guess for a bit what the word "cow" means in this case.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2006, 04:31:45 pm »
Next up, a couple of anecdotes from my own experience. First, I was hired to review and suggest improvements to a dairymen's association publication. I met with the head of the group, who was unhappy with the publication and, specifically with its editor, an experienced and professional communicator (and a woman, as the majority of the people in that profession are). His major beef (sorry!) was that the stories weren't written the way he would like them to be and "maybe it's time for the ladies to step down as editor." I had to restrain myself from pointing out that without females the dairy profession would be nonexistent. The editor and I had a laugh about it later.

The other story (I'm repeating myself here) was my sighting of the huge statue of a Hereford bull outside a corn maze that I spotted near Loveland, Colorado, the juxtaposition of a venerated cow with a labyrinth in a modern setting. Evidence that bullriding and cowboys are the modern vestiges of an ancient heritage.

My point, (and I do have one! thanks Ellen) is coming!! Watch this space!!

"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2006, 10:35:15 pm »
Okay, I have left you cowgirls and cowboys on tenterhooks way too long. The meaning of "cows" as Gertrude Stein uses it, is--in case you haven't been reading your New Yorker recently-- orgasms.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2006, 12:45:48 pm »
Speaking of dogs, here's my son and his alter ego, a half-Husky, half-malamute named Kapu (and he's lovin the current blizzard conditions--prancin around like Ennis with his blankie!!)

"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Kd5000

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 910
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2006, 01:25:33 pm »
O/T   CATS
I'd rather be a cat. ;D  Ancient Egyptians used to worhsip them I think.  Cows are sacred in Hindu culture, but the rest of the world has a different take. Dogs are despised in the Muslim world. I believe ownership of a dog other then to be used as protection is illegal in Iran.  Don't thiink there has ever been a society that worshipped dogs.  Maybe I'm mistaken.

I wonder how long cats have been domesticated? Never owned a cat. I'm familiar with cows. Owned dogs before.  I like (some) dogs better then cats.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2006, 04:15:13 pm »
Just for you, Karl, a cat picture. Actually, to take this picture, I first arranged my real life Jack on a mountain, and then I substituted our sunroom for the mountain. I took off his boots and substituted a baseball cap for a cowboy hat. I then substituted our cat for the blue heeler. But otherwise, it's exactly the same!!

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=710.msg124693#msg124693
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen (with a detour to dogs)
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2006, 04:48:51 pm »
I had to go play with my dog for a while, because he was upset with me for dallying with tall Pennsylvanians in cowboy hats for too long!

The thing that I love about dogs and that drives me crazy is their loyalty. You can leave a dog alone cooped up in a garage or chained to a leash for hours and hours, but who is the first, and often the only creature to welcome you when you get home from work? The dog. A dog will lick your hand even while you are using it to beat him. (not that I know, but it does happen when I brush his coat, which can get quite painful.) A dog will not even take food from you when you hold it out if he thinks he might hurt you doing it. A dog will lick your chin gratefully even if you give him leftover Thanksgiving stuffing consisting mostly of celery to eat.

How OT can a topic get? I want to talk about Pennsylvanians some more. We should have a contest for the most OT thread. Tall Pennsylvanians in cowboy hats keep coming into my life. First, there was my FRiend Ennis, who in RL goes by Adam. Then there was Owen Wister, who wrote The Virginian. There is also Amanda, I don't know if she is tall but I imagine her being tall and willowy. Now I have this nice virtual houseguest Jeff who is helping me stave off cabin fever. Thanks, Jeff!! Another FRiend John Beene (who's from Texas and doesn't drink coffee far as I can tell) was kidding Adam because of the way he says "Gary." I say Gary the same way...can I be an honorary Pennsylvanian? I would be happy to as long as it's where I'm from, not where I am! I have only been to Pennsylvania once. I flew into Harrisburg and then stayed in Lancaster. I got stuck behind an Amish buggy when going to tour a sewage plant. I also visited an ice cream store with a dairy next door, and the freezers ran on methane energy from the cows. There, I am on topic again!! Ta-da!!
« Last Edit: December 21, 2006, 04:57:28 pm by Front-Ranger »
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,186
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Bullriders, cowmen (with a detour to dogs)
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2006, 05:34:42 pm »
I had to go play with my dog for a while, because he was upset with me for dallying with tall Pennsylvanians in cowboy hats for too long!

The thing that I love about dogs and that drives me crazy is their loyalty. You can leave a dog alone cooped up in a garage or chained to a leash for hours and hours, but who is the first, and often the only creature to welcome you when you get home from work? The dog. A dog will lick your hand even while you are using it to beat him. (not that I know, but it does happen when I brush his coat, which can get quite painful.) A dog will not even take food from you when you hold it out if he thinks he might hurt you doing it. A dog will lick your chin gratefully even if you give him leftover Thanksgiving stuffing consisting mostly of celery to eat.

You're making me want a dog, little darlin'. OK, I've been wanting a dog, now you're just making me want a dog even more. But I wasn't raised with dogs (cats, either, for that matter--my father HATES cats) because in the early 1960s doctors (stupidly if well-meaningly) thought pets would make a small boy's allergies worse.  :-\ But a one-bedroom high-rise home is no place for even a small dog, I know that. It wouldn't be fair to the dog. And since I wasn't raised with dogs and have no experience caring for them, I'll just have to stand it, and content myself with being friends with my friend John's Dalmatian, Amadeus, and my cousin's Brittany spaniel Holly. (Holly likes me because I scratch her ears by the hour. ...  ;D )

Quote
How OT can a topic get? I want to talk about Pennsylvanians some more. We should have a contest for the most OT thread. Tall Pennsylvanians in cowboy hats keep coming into my life. First, there was my FRiend Ennis, who in RL goes by Adam. Then there was Owen Wister, who wrote The Virginian. There is also Amanda, I don't know if she is tall but I imagine her being tall and willowy. Now I have this nice virtual houseguest Jeff who is helping me stave off cabin fever. Thanks, Jeff!! Another FRiend John Beene (who's from Texas and doesn't drink coffee far as I can tell) was kidding Adam because of the way he says "Gary." I say Gary the same way...can I be an honorary Pennsylvanian? I would be happy to as long as it's where I'm from, not where I am! I have only been to Pennsylvania once. I flew into Harrisburg and then stayed in Lancaster. I got stuck behind an Amish buggy when going to tour a sewage plant. I also visited an ice cream store with a dairy next door, and the freezers ran on methane energy from the cows. There, I am on topic again!! Ta-da!!

Glad to help fight off that cabin fever.  :D Do I really want to know what you were doing visiting a sewage plant in my home (as in birthplace, not current residence) county of Lancaster, Pennsylvania? Probably not. ...  ;D

How does John Beene pronounce "Gary"? Wish I could figger out a way to spell how we pronounce "Gary." We pronounce it to rhyme with "Cary" (as in "Grant"), but I suppose that's no help if you pronounce "Cary Grant" as "Kerry (as in the senator from Massachusetts) Grant," now does it? Anyway, somebody who hails from a state where they say "kiow" and "waff" instead of "cow" and "wife" (according to Annie Proulx) ain't got no business makin' fun of how native Pennsylvanians say "Cary."  ;D

I'm really a short Pennsylvanian with a tall cowboy hat, but you can think of me as tall if you like, I won't complain.  ;D

(I downloaded those pi'tures of Adam on Brokenback Mountain. ...  ::) )
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

moremojo

  • Guest
Re: Bullriders, cowmen (with a detour to dogs)
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2006, 05:41:48 pm »
But a one-bedroom high-rise home is no place for even a small dog, I know that. It wouldn't be fair to the dog.
Jeff, you might consider adopting a cat or two (assuming you're not allergic to 'em). A cat, or even two cats, could fare quite well in a high-rise abode, and they don't demand the kind of attention and space that a dog really needs. Cats can really be affectionate animals, and yet are not nearly as high-maintenance as canines. You might make of this an early Xmas present to yourself!

Offline nakymaton

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,045
  • aka Mel
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2006, 06:35:53 pm »
I wonder how long cats have been domesticated?

Are cats domesticated now? ;D

My cat would like me to tell you that SHE has domesticated ME, not vice versa, and that someday she will train me not to move my arms when I type.
Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,186
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Bullriders, cowmen (with a detour to dogs)
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2006, 07:34:27 pm »
Jeff, you might consider adopting a cat or two (assuming you're not allergic to 'em). A cat, or even two cats, could fare quite well in a high-rise abode, and they don't demand the kind of attention and space that a dog really needs. Cats can really be affectionate animals, and yet are not nearly as high-maintenance as canines. You might make of this an early Xmas present to yourself!

Tell you what, that's a lovely idea, Scott, and I thank you for the suggestion, but apparently you missed my mention of the fact that my father HATES cats. I'd be disowned if I adopted a cat!  ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,186
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2006, 07:39:15 pm »
Are cats domesticated now? ;D

My cat would like me to tell you that SHE has domesticated ME, not vice versa, and that someday she will train me not to move my arms when I type.

Isn't there some sort of saying that dogs have owners but cats have ... staff?  ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

injest

  • Guest
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2006, 07:50:24 pm »
Are cats domesticated now? ;D

My cat would like me to tell you that SHE has domesticated ME, not vice versa, and that someday she will train me not to move my arms when I type.

That was what I was thinking...I wasn't aware that they HAD been...

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,186
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Bullriders, cowmen (with a detour to dogs)
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2006, 12:33:37 pm »
How does John Beene pronounce "Gary"? Wish I could figger out a way to spell how we pronounce "Gary." We pronounce it to rhyme with "Cary" (as in "Grant"), but I suppose that's no help if you pronounce "Cary Grant" as "Kerry (as in the senator from Massachusetts) Grant," now does it? Anyway, somebody who hails from a state where they say "kiow" and "waff" instead of "cow" and "wife" (according to Annie Proulx) ain't got no business makin' fun of how native Pennsylvanians say "Cary."  ;D

OK, I was thinkin' about this last night, and, unfortunately, the closest I can come is to say that where I come from, we pronounce the "a" in "Cary" sorta like the way we pronounce the "a" in ... "rat"!  :-\  ;D  :laugh:
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2006, 02:02:09 pm »
O/T   CATS
I'd rather be a cat. ;D  Ancient Egyptians used to worhsip them I think.  Cows are sacred in Hindu culture, but the rest of the world has a different take. Dogs are despised in the Muslim world. I believe ownership of a dog other then to be used as protection is illegal in Iran.  Don't thiink there has ever been a society that worshipped dogs.  Maybe I'm mistaken.

I wonder how long cats have been domesticated? Never owned a cat. I'm familiar with cows. Owned dogs before.  I like (some) dogs better then cats.

Not sure if a society has ever worshipped dogs, Karl, but I can tell you that sheepherders come close. I was listening to a talk on sheepherding dogs earlier this fall with Mel, and those sheepherders really love their dogs and think they are smarter than many humans!!

Cultures have worshipped wolves too. A she-wolf raised Romulus and Remus and they grew up to found Rome, so the mother of the Roman culture is a wolf. Wolves are venerated in the American Southwest and in Mexico as well. Wolves are yet another representation of the ancient culture associated with women that lurks in our subconscious and as a subtext in much popular culture, surfacing occasionally in works such as The Da Vinci Code.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline nakymaton

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,045
  • aka Mel
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2006, 11:32:29 pm »
There's Coyote, the trickster figure from some western North American Indian tribes.
Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen (with a detour to dogs)
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2006, 02:15:02 pm »
Do I really want to know what you were doing visiting a sewage plant in my home (as in birthplace, not current residence) county of Lancaster, Pennsylvania? Probably not. ...  ;D

I was attending a renewable energy conference, LOL!
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,186
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Bullriders, cowmen (with a detour to dogs)
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2006, 05:30:55 pm »
I was attending a renewable energy conference, LOL!

Actually, I may know that dairy where you got the ice cream--the one that powers its equipment from methane from its own cows.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2007, 04:58:04 pm »
I'll be on the watch for bullriders, cowmen and cowgirls while watching Pan's Labyrinth this afternoon!

Pan's Labyrinth (El Laberinto del Fauno)
Produced by Alfonso Cuarón, Bertha Navarro, Guillermo del Toro, Frida Torresblanco
Written by Guillermo del Toro
Directed by Guillermo del Toro
Starring: Sergi Lopez, Maribel Verdu, Ivana Baquero, Alex Angulo, Doug Jones


"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline serious crayons

  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,762
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2007, 04:50:50 pm »
His major beef (sorry!) was that the stories weren't written the way he would like them to be and "maybe it's time for the ladies to step down as editor." I had to restrain myself from pointing out that without females the dairy profession would be nonexistent.

Wow, Lee, you've you've got more self-discipline than I do! Your joke is cute.  I would have been tempted to say something a lot harsher than that in response to his statement.  ::)

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2007, 11:41:11 am »
Heard on the radio this morning: "Boards of directors are having a 'Holy Cow' moment." Vestiges of an ancient culture lurking in our humor, religion, pornography, all the dusty corners ...
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2007, 01:03:30 am »
In Pan's Labyrinth, the child was told to milk a cow and to put the bowl of milk under the bed where her mother lay dreadfully ill and pregnant. Into the bowl of milk she put a mandrake root, which is the root of a plant that looks like a human figure. Mother's milk is powerful medicine, and a man in a bowl of milk is reunited with his origins and made whole.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2007, 11:56:46 am »
An interesting discussion this a.m. on Morning Edition about bullfighting in Spain, mentioning Hemingway's Death in the Afternoon.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2007, 04:10:46 pm »
Interesting that what "saves" Jack from being trampled by a raging bull is a rodeo clown. If only Hemingway had had a sense of humor, maybe his story would have been much different!!

"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2007, 11:48:55 am »
We are always saying in the business world that we have to "take the bull by the horns." This seems to be a vestige of the bull-leaping practices of the ancient Minoans. Young men and women athletes performed these bull-leaping exercises, which were very dangerous, but yet did not result in the death of the bull as the Spanish bullfights do. The performers actually grabbed the horns of a charging bull and somersaulted onto the beast's back and then off, landing on their feet if they did it perfectly. This exercise still exists in modern gymnastics, and the equipment used in place of the bull is called the horse or the buck.

"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2008, 03:58:47 pm »
I'm reading some of the other stories in the collection by Annie Proulx which concludes with Brokeback Mountain. Here is a pasage from "The Mud Below."

Quote
"...[Jesus] was a cowboy, the original rodeo cowboy. It says it right in the Bible. It's in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John." He adopted a sanctimonious tone. "'Go ubti tge village in which, at your enterin, ye shall find a colt tied, on which yet never no man sat; loose him and bring him here. The Lord hath a need a him. And they brought him to Jesus, and they cast their garments upon the colt and they set Jesus on it.' Now if that ain't a description a bareback ridin I don't know what is."
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Penthesilea

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,745
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2008, 05:52:07 pm »
I'm reading some of the other stories in the collection by Annie Proulx which concludes with Brokeback Mountain. Here is a pasage from "The Mud Below."


You know, apart from BBM, People in Hell Just Want a Drink of Water and The Mud Below are my favorite stories in Close Range. Somehow The Mud Below really stuck with me. I love the title, I like Annie's grim description of rodeo life, and somehow she even managed to make me feel for and like its hero, Diamond Felts, despite everything. He his far from being a likable person, in fact, he's a rapist and despicable for it. Maybe 'to like' is the wrong word, but damn that boy stuck with me. Far from the way Ennis and Jack did, obviously, but still.

Yet when I read The Mud Below for the first time, all I could think of towards the end of the story (when D got hung up on a bull and the following scenes) was Jack. The danger, the pain, the loneliness - it must have been like this for poor Jack in those years after Ennis and him split 1963  :(.
In my Wyoming travel guide I read this sentence: There's a reson they call it the suicide sport.


The part you quoted is so interesting regarding Jack being a Jesus-like figure. I totally missed this. Thanks for pointing it out.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2008, 08:06:31 pm »
You're welcome, Penth. My impression of the other stories in Close Range is that they are pretty weird. Definitely high-intensity reading! But reading them definitely enriched my understanding of Brokeback Mountain! I will post more about the anthology in The Culture Tent.

I have watched a lot of bullriding in the past week, since Denver's major rodeo, the National Western, is taking place. It often put me in mind of this illustration from the island of Crete:

"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2008, 11:27:21 pm »
In the story, Jack remembers a bullrider who was "checked by a horn dipstick" meaning he was gored, probably in the rump. A dipstick is uncomfortably close to a tire iron, so once more he is presaging his own death.  :'(

"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2008, 12:11:38 am »
More ancient bulls. People worshipped them once, and they do still. Every time I go to Wyoming, I drive past a huge cowbarn with a big sculpture of a Hereford bull on the roof.

"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,329
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Bullriders, cowmen and girls, and animal husbandry
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2009, 12:52:15 pm »
The giant redwoods of Northern California require some outsize characters to wrangle them. So, here's my latest bull sighting:

"chewing gum and duct tape"