Lureen Knew?

[calenloss]

Anyone else get the feeling that Lureen was aware of exactly who Ennis Del Mar was and what he meant to her deceased husband? I don't know quite what it was, but I just got the impression that the steely glaze & monotone voice really began to be displayed after he's formally introduced himself.

I also got the impression that, in a wonderful counterpoint with Jack's mother, she wanted Ennis to fulfil Jack's last wishes - more than she could admit. The way she blurts out that he should go up to Lightning Flat after a very long and torured silence (when Ennis has said goodbye) said to me that Lureen had struggled with the revelations about her husband but knew it was for the best - possibly because she loved Jack too. Sh epushed him to LF, while Jacks' mother pulled him to what he needed to find.

[opinionista]

I think Lureen had a feeling or heard about Jack wandering around but didn't know it for a fact until Ennis explains that Brokeback Mountain was not a pretend place, as she had tought but the place where they had met. And that is when reality hits her. From that moment on she begins to really understand what Jack's fishing trips were all about, and why Jack wanted his ashes to be spread on Brokeback Mountain. It was like a wake up call for Lureen.

[Marge_Innavera]

My interpretation has been that she knew Jack hadn't been faithful to her, and maybe thought that either the "fishing trips" were bogus and Jack was visiting a girlfriend or that Jack and Ennis were catting around in some city rather than fishing in the wilderness. But I also think she assumed it was a woman, not a man, in Jack's life. Her quizzing him about why his fishing buddy never comes to Texas might have been a way of needling him and trying to let him knew that she was aware he was running around on her. But the revelation of what Ennis had really meant to him was a shock.

[Kelda]

the little irky noisy she does in her throat while talking to Ennis proves it for me.

She suspects certainly - shes much more a woman of the world than Alma.

She might have only come to that revelation in recent years but yeah she knew, I'm sure.

[Br. Patrick]

I questioned for several viewings whether or not Lureen knew.   Then I managed to catch the last 15 minutes of the 4 leads on Oprah.  When Oprah asked Anne Hathaway whether or not she knew, she looked stunned and replied something to the effect of "couldn't you tell; wasn't it OBVIOUS?"   When Oprah replied that she didn't, Ann Hathaway replied something to the effect of "Oh my God I was disrespectful of Oprah, what would her mother say..., etc."  I have a copy of that PART of the Oprah show and Oprah was downright rude to Jake and Heath earlier in the show.  (Oprah only gave Brokeback Mountain 1/2 of that show...)

But anyway getting back to Lureen.  Now that I KNEW that she KNEW I really listened and watched intently.   It's very subtle and if you blink you'll miss it.   When Ennis tells Lureen that Brokeback Mountain was a real place that he and Jack had herded sheep on in 1963, Lureen's voice cracks and her eyes moisten.  It happens so fast that if you don't know it's there, you'll miss it like I did for the first 9 viewings.  Then she becomes aware for sure.  Seeing it makes her terse remarks to Ennis fit perfectly.   Maybe she had her doubts about his fidelity, but with another man?

[southendmd]

I agree with what's been said.  Especially about the "squeaks" in Lureen's voice.  That's when she gets it.

They occur twice:  once, when Ennis explains BBM is not pretend "we was herdin' sheep one summer back in '63"; and again, when he says "we was good friends".

It's really a great performance.

Paul

[nakymaton]

Yeah, I think Lureen knew.

And, brittle as she's become by the end of the movie, I love her for suggesting that Ennis fulfill Jack's wishes. She may have gotten cold and snarky in her old age, but she's still got a heart.

[Brown Eyes]

The more I think about Lureen the more I love her (maybe I should pay a visit to one of Roland's threads... haven't been over to an "I love everything..." thread for a while).

She was smart. Her cynical demeanor towards the end was probably a coping/ defense mechanism, but she never behaved like a victim. And, like kelda_shelton said, she was far more worldly than Alma.  We know that Lureen went to college, was bold enough to become a rodeo participant, was bold enough to make all the first moves with Jack and she could clearly hold her own in business negotiations with (I'll assume) a bunch of men in Texas who probably weren't used to dealing with tough businesswomen.  Alma irritates me, for a number of reasons, one of which is that she does behave like a victim. And of course she becomes spiteful.  Lureen is an outsider in her own right... she's a business woman and not content with the stay-at-home role that probably predominated in her Childress community.  And, she and Jack are clearly pretty good friends.  The knowing looks they give each other once in a while in the film suggest an unspoken bond... of a best-friend sort.   

I think she did know about Jack but, that we don't realize this for sure until the phone call.  (Of course there is lingering ambiguity... but I truly sense that she knew).  And, I agree that her suggestion that Ennis go to visit Jack's parents and deal with the ashes was an enormous kindness.  You can almost see the wheels turning in her head as she decides to make this gesture.  I think she deserves enormous credit for this.

[ifyoucantfixit]

I questioned for several viewings whether or not Lureen knew.   Then I managed to catch the last 15 minutes of the 4 leads on Oprah.  When Oprah asked Anne Hathaway whether or not she knew, she looked stunned and replied something to the effect of "couldn't you tell; wasn't it OBVIOUS?"   When Oprah replied that she didn't, Ann Hathaway replied something to the effect of "Oh my God I was disrespectful of Oprah, what would her mother say..., etc."  I have a copy of that PART of the Oprah show and Oprah was downright rude to Jake and Heath earlier in the show.  (Oprah only gave Brokeback Mountain 1/2 of that show...)

But anyway getting back to Lureen.  Now that I KNEW that she KNEW I really listened and watched intently.   It's very subtle and if you blink you'll miss it.   When Ennis tells Lureen that Brokeback Mountain was a real place that he and Jack had herded sheep on in 1963, Lureen's voice cracks and her eyes moisten.  It happens so fast that if you don't know it's there, you'll miss it like I did for the first 9 viewings.  Then she becomes aware for sure.  Seeing it makes her terse remarks to Ennis fit perfectly.   Maybe she had her doubts about his fidelity, but with another man?

   i agree with you 100%  i lost my respect for oprah on that show....she was crude and disrespectful...and very condescending...i had that as well until i lost it,  when my computer fried...but i havent watched her or cared what she had to say about anything much since then...there ive said it ....trashed oprah the american saint...                                                                        janice

[opinionista]

The more I think about Lureen the more I love her (maybe I should pay a visit to one of Roland's threads... haven't been over to an "I love everything..." thread for a while).

She was smart. Her cynical demeanor towards the end was probably a coping/ defense mechanism, but she never behaved like a victim. And, like kelda_shelton said, she was far more worldly than Alma.  We know that Lureen went to college, was bold enough to become a rodeo participant, was bold enough to make all the first moves with Jack and she could clearly hold her own in business negotiations with (I'll assume) a bunch of men in Texas who probably weren't used to dealing with tough businesswomen.  Alma irritates me, for a number of reasons, one of which is that she does behave like a victim. And of course she becomes spiteful.  Lureen is an outsider in her own right... she's a business woman and not content with the stay-at-home role that probably predominated in her Childress community.  And, she and Jack are clearly pretty good friends.  The knowing looks they give each other once in a while in the film suggest an unspoken bond... of a best-friend sort.   

I think she did know about Jack but, that we don't realize this for sure until the phone call.  (Of course there is lingering ambiguity... but I truly sense that she knew).  And, I agree that her suggestion that Ennis go to visit Jack's parents and deal with the ashes was an enormous kindness.  You can almost see the wheels turning in her head as she decides to make this gesture.  I think she deserves enormous credit for this.

What makes me disagree with the above statement is the dancing scene, when Jack meets Randall and his wife. Lureen makes a comment about men not wanting to dance with their wives, and she was clearly referring to sex. It seemed to me she was disappointed and hurt because Jack was not doing his part in the bed department. I don't think they were portrayed as best friends, they were husband and wife, and Lureen did expect him to behave like so. The difference between her and Alma, is that Alma sees Jack and Ennis kissing passionately, and that had to have a different impact on her. Lureen only had suspicions about Jack but actual not facts, like Alma did.

I also think to call Alma a victim is very unfair. She was in a total different situation than Lureen was. She didn't come from a rich family and neither had the chance to have an education. Alma was trapped in a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. She was too poor and had too many responsibilities, two kids to look after, and could not afford to be an independent woman like Lureen was.

There are many women out there like Alma that have not other choice but to stay in an unhappy marriage in order to survive and to be able to feed their kids. And IMO is unfair, and I don't mean to offend anyone, but its also cruel to call them doormats or victims because of that.