Author Topic: Does Ennis view himself as a cowboy?  (Read 5099 times)

Offline Kd5000

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Does Ennis view himself as a cowboy?
« on: December 03, 2006, 05:06:28 pm »
Just "observing" on TOB  posts about how they weren't cowobys, etc etc.  Certainly not Jack. 

However, at the end of BBM, Ennis decides to go to ALma Jr's wedding and says there going to have to get themselves another cowboy as my little daughter is going to get married. 

I just thought Ennis was contract labor, a ranch hand who worked for different ranchers on a case by case basis.  Different ranchers would hire him out to build fence, castrate calves, daily ranch operations.    Are ranch hands and cowboys synomous?

I've known small time calf and cattle operations.  In many case, cowboy/rancher has a day job and has a small herd of cattle.  He (usually a he) offers his services to other small time ranchers in exchange for them helping him out when he needs it. THey pull their resources together for things like mass vaccinations of cattles, things like that.   

However, out west (TEXAS, the Rockies),  ranches are much much larger and usually have thousands of cattle. Hence, the cattle baron always keeps on a few ranch hands as needbe. Just my observation.  I ramble.

Back to the question

Are ranch hands and cowboys synomous?    And which is Ennis? 

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Does Ennis view himself as a cowboy?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2006, 05:20:54 pm »
I went to a meeting in Casper, Wyoming, in October where there was a panel discussion about the myth of the cowboy. Speaking were John Nesbitt, a historian, professor of Western culture, and author; the poet laureate of Wyoming; a black rodeo bullrider and author; Linda Hasselstrom, a historian and author; and Annie Proulx, author of Brokeback Mountain. None of them had the definitive answer to your question, but Annie Proulx said, "If I had wanted them to be cowboys, I wouldn't have put them to work herding sheep!" According to Nesbitt, what sets ranch hands off from cowboys is horsemanship. In addition, several people from the audience spoke up and there were several women who were daughters or wives of ranch hands or ranch owners who were very discouraged because none of the mystique of the cowboy rubbed off on their men, translating to viable careers for them. Perhaps the most definitive answer was given by Proulx at the end of the talk when she left the audience with a riddle: "A yellow snake, a green kangaroo, and a pink elephant walked into a bar. The bartender said, 'You're too early, boys, he ain't here yet.'"


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Offline opinionista

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Re: Does Ennis view himself as a cowboy?
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2006, 10:45:38 am »
According to the Oxford English Dictionary 2002 edition, a cowboy is "a man on horseback who herds cattle, especially in the western US". Taking into consideration that definition, I'd say Ennis was a cowboy and so was Jack. The problem is that we are under the influence of Hollywood's definition of cowboys which is John Wayne, Clint Eastwood and so on.

A Ranch, according to the same dictionary is a large farm, especially in the western US and Canada, where cattle or other animals are bred.

I guess a cowboy and a ranch hand are basically the same thing, given that many cowboys work in ranches as cattle herders. However it is also true that not all ranch hands are cowboys, and not all cowboys are ranch hands. IMO Ennis was a the real cowboy of the two, since he mostly worked with cattle, and rode horses. Jack stopped being a cowboy when he moved down to Texas, married Lureen and started working as a salesman.

Quote
and Annie Proulx, author of Brokeback Mountain. None of them had the definitive answer to your question, but Annie Proulx said, "If I had wanted them to be cowboys, I wouldn't have put them to work herding sheep!"

Interesting that comment Lee. I think in the essay Getting it movied, AP mentions that herding sheep is also a part of the cowboy life (or cowboy job), at least in Wyoming, eventhough the cowboys usually hate those animals. They tend to take these kind of jobs when nothing else is available.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2006, 10:59:25 am by opinionista »
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Offline Kd5000

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Re: Does Ennis view himself as a cowboy?
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2006, 08:44:36 pm »
Well I do remember reading that Jack and Ennis were leftovers from the feudal era of the Old West, when cowboys were needed to drive herds of cattle to the markets in the midwest.  The economy in those western states was changing, especially in Jack and Ennis's youth. You could still sense the Old West, but it was dying...The frontier had been closed since 1890.

Cowboys weren't needed as much in recent times as they were back then.  Plus the rootless life and staying on the saddle for days, riding 1,000 miles, must have not been the world's most desirable job, no matter how much Hollywood has romanticized it.   I forget the exact details of the film RED RIVER. Wasn't it about driving cattle herds from TX to KS in the 1870's+? Don't know why KS. Chicago had the world's largest stockyards and the country's largest meat packing center.   Maybe cattle were put on trains from KS to Chicago or perhaps KS was the marketplace where agents bought cows for their respective stockyard.   ???

Offline dot-matrix

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Re: Does Ennis view himself as a cowboy?
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2006, 04:51:53 am »
What I'm going to share is not gospel by any stretch of the imagination but it is what I learned at my Daddy's knee growing up on a horse ranch in Montana.  Cowboys work with cattle, Wranglers work with horses and Herders work with sheep.  Anyone hired to do the other work on a ranch like feeding stock, mucking out stalls, fixing fence etc is called a Ranch Hand. Ranch Hands are paid considerable less than experience Cowboys or Wranglers.  The Foreman or Ramrod is in charge of the men and the Segundo is second in charge.   And according to my Daddy any man worth his salt works side by with his men fair weather or foul no matter how much money he has or how big his spread.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2006, 05:01:05 am by dot-matrix »
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Offline Rayn

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Re: Does Ennis view himself as a cowboy?
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2006, 10:08:13 am »
Does Ennis view himself as a cowboy?


Yes, of course he does, but i think he isn't "aware" of it as in "view himself as one".  It's like having blue eyes... I have them, but I don't "view myself" as a blue eyed man.  I almost never think about it 'cause it's "just me".   That's how Ennis is as a cowboy.  He's genuine.

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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Does Ennis view himself as a cowboy?
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2006, 12:12:50 pm »
Rayn, it's so nice to see U here again, it's been a long time!! I agree that Ennis sees himself as a cowboy as well as Jack. Recall during the last day on the mountain, he says to Jack "This ain't no rodeo, cowboy" as he tugs on Jack's lasso. He's using the word cowboy in the faintly derogatory sense that is used so often, as someone who acts before or instead of thinking. In the movie, Alma uses cowboy as a verb, which I'd never heard of before. "Is he [Jack] someone you cowboy'ed with?" she says when the postcard comes. "No, Jack he rodeos mostly," Ennis answers. This surprised me because I always thought it was cowboys who competed in rodeos! In fact, anybody who can ride a horse I would consider a cowboy (unless they wear a houndstooth jacket and carry a crop, then I would call them an equestrian).
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Offline nakymaton

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Re: Does Ennis view himself as a cowboy?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2006, 07:07:11 pm »
Lee, do you think "cowboy" sounded derogatory in "This ain't no rodeo, cowboy?" I thought it sounded affectionate, in a kind of rough, "I can't say what I'm really feeling" kind of way.

I think it's interesting just how often movie characters call each other "cowboy" ("What're you waiting for cowboy? A mating call?"), given that none of the characters really are "cowboys" by the definition that Dot gives.

It seems like the term "cowboy" has become influenced by Hollywood, and by the West's view of itself. (And by the view of others, as well.) Do you remember the Cowboy Gathering in my town a few months ago? I bet none of those people worked with cattle, though many may have ridden horses for fun. An image of a loner, of someone who belongs in the outdoors. A memory of a illusionary past, rather than a job or a way of life. (Did the Casper panel discussion say any of those things?)

(About cows versus sheep -- there's a history of conflict between sheep-herding and cattle-herding. I don't know much about it.)
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Re: Does Ennis view himself as a cowboy?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2006, 07:22:32 pm »
You bet, Mel. The whole discussion in Casper was on the myth and reality of the cowboy and I discuss it here. I think the term, the way Ennis used it in that instance, was affectionately derogatory, just the same as Jack "ropin" Ennis like a wayward calf. But in these times, the word cowboy is definitely used in a derogatory manner often, for instance sometimes it's said that we're in Iraq because of  "cowboy diplomacy." The word "boy" is derogatory in itself, as well as the word "cow." But then there's the flip side--I was reading American Cowboy Magazine, which glorifies the cowboy in order to boost retail sales of everything from concha belts to cattle prods. Did you know you could check your stocks (Wall Street ones), get free e-mail, and chat at cowboy.com?? I suspect that "real" cowboys don't call themselves such xcept on Friday nights when they're trying to put the blocks to some filly. They probably call themselves wranglers, ranch hands, or ranch operators, something like that.
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Re: Does Ennis view himself as a cowboy?
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2007, 10:33:51 pm »
I remember Proulx writing that both Ennis and Jack want to be cowboys, are in thrall to the mystique of the cowboy, but are not themselves cowboys. The suggestion here is that the cowboy myth permeated the consciousness of the mid-twentieth century West, but that real cowboys basically didn't exist anymore--the way of life that defined the authentic cowboy had died (slowly or otherwise) with the closing of the frontier.