Author Topic: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."  (Read 12851 times)

Offline dot-matrix

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"If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« on: December 14, 2006, 04:21:48 am »
I just now finished watching again on HBO for the umpteenth time and something struck me that I never picked up on before.  If this has been shared or discussed please bear with me I did try to find a thread already started on this topic  :) I looked at IMDB as well but no mentions of this specific scene as pivotal beyond that special line.   

Ennis: Two guys livin together? No way.  We can get together once in a while way the hell out in the back of nowhere, but...

Jack: ....Once in a while....ever' four fuckin years!?!

Ennis: If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it.

Jack: (quiet) For how long?

Ennis: Long as we can ride it.  (pause)  Ain't no reins on this one.

both quiet, Jack reaches out a hand and gently strokes Ennis' cheek.


I watched this over and over again lately and I think I finally got it.  Everything about Ennis in that scene is about Ennis telling Jack he loves him even though he won't chuck it all to be with him.  He shares his thoughts and fears with Jack something he would never do with anyone else even Alma.  But the capper in my mind are the words "Long as we can ride it.  Ain't no reins on this one".  to me, Ennis is saying clear as he can: Jack you are important to me and I don't want to lose you, I love you but I've got responsibilities, work with me here.  For a proud taciturn man like Ennis that scene is incredible and those few words he chooses are profound.
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mvansand76

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2006, 07:59:48 am »
I agree, I have always interpreted this scene like that. Without using the exact words he tells Jack that he loves him and that nothing in the world will keep him from loving him but that it's gonna be a difficult ride....ain't no reins on this one, (in the short story he adds, it scares the **** out of me if I remember correctly). He is so scared of what he is feeling, but he knows what he is feeling.

I just love this scene, I love how Ennis sighs when Jack strokes Ennis' cheek. It's so sad and he is so full of love, it's almost unbearable to watch....

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2006, 05:20:14 pm »
I watched this over and over again lately and I think I finally got it.  Everything about Ennis in that scene is about Ennis telling Jack he loves him even though he won't chuck it all to be with him.  He shares his thoughts and fears with Jack something he would never do with anyone else even Alma.  But the capper in my mind are the words "Long as we can ride it.  Ain't no reins on this one".  to me, Ennis is saying clear as he can: Jack you are important to me and I don't want to lose you, I love you but I've got responsibilities, work with me here.  For a proud taciturn man like Ennis that scene is incredible and those few words he chooses are profound.


I agree, Dot--and I'm not ashamed to say publicly that it took a long, long time for that to sink into my thick Pennsylvania German head. When I finally--finally--really took in the look on Ennis's face when Jack reaches out and strokes his cheek, it hit me like a ton of bricks. That had a profound affect on how I now view the film.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2006, 10:33:56 pm »
Dot, that's how I've always seen this scene too.  In fact, I think certain things that Ennis says here helps take the sting out of the rejection of the cow and calf operation.  By saying "as long as we can ride it" Ennis seems to be saying he wants the relationship to last forever (or for as long as he has anything to say about it in terms of control, i.e. the reins).  It really is awfully romantic coming from Ennis, especially combined with his demeanor in this scene (his vulnerability) and also directly following the "prayer of thanks" remark and the wink (also both romantic).

This is the first time that I really noticed the "Jack" thrown into the middle of that famous motto.  I'm so used to thinking about it as simply "If you can't fix it, you gotta stand it" that seeing the "Jack" in the middle is a little jarring.  It makes it seem a lot more personal this way and less like an abstract life-philosophy, which is what it really seems to be for Ennis.  It's so interesting to me that the screenwriters decided to put this line (the last line of the story) in here at this moment in the film.  It has tob be important.
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Offline Katie77

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2006, 11:01:42 pm »
Yes......aren't those words so damn strong.......

Referring to it the way Ennis did, was saying it in connection with Jack and his rodeo horse riding....." long as we can ride it"......knowing Jack, could picture, that the "ride" would not always be smooth, and that there were no "reins" to pull it up, no "reins" to control how long, how rough the journey was going to be......

Guess he was saying.....this could be the longest ride, he and  Jack was gonna have......(and he was right)
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2006, 11:04:16 pm »
By saying "as long as we can ride it" Ennis seems to be saying he wants the relationship to last forever (or for as long as he has anything to say about it in terms of control, i.e. the reins).

Dunno. Could be. His demeanor and the way he says it makes me feel he's as afraid of himself and his feelings as he is of what happens to two guys who ranch up together. I think he's feeling that he doesn't have his emotions under control--"Ain't no reins on this one"--and that's at least part of what's scaring him.

Quote
This is the first time that I really noticed the "Jack" thrown into the middle of that famous motto.  I'm so used to thinking about it as simply "If you can't fix it, you gotta stand it" that seeing the "Jack" in the middle is a little jarring.  It makes it seem a lot more personal this way and less like an abstract life-philosophy, which is what it really seems to be for Ennis.  It's so interesting to me that the screenwriters decided to put this line (the last line of the story) in here at this moment in the film.  It has tob be important.

I agree, throwing the "Jack" in there does make it more personal. Combined iwth the look on Heath's face, and, again, his demeanor, it makes me think Ennis wants to fix "it" (their situation), but he doesn't believe fixing it is even possible.
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Offline nakymaton

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2006, 11:54:22 pm »
I think he's feeling that he doesn't have his emotions under control--"Ain't no reins on this one"--and that's at least part of what's scaring him.

Yes. Definitely.

You know, that line, "if you can't fix it, you got a stand it," appears twice in the short story: once in the Motel Siesta scene (which is the source of a lot of the dialogue on the camping trip), and once as the final line in the story. A lot of its power as a "life philosophy" comes from being the last line in the story, when it's got all the weight of Jack's death heaped on top of it, and where it sounds to me like a really depressing statement about Ennis's future. But the earlier time, in the Motel, that line comes across in the same way in the movie and the story (except that, in the movie, the rest of the camping scene really does scream "I love you, Jack, even if I can't bring myself to say it" to me).

Did anyone else expect to hear the line without "Jack" in the middle of it? In the trailer, the "Jack" is cut out of that line. (It's just in a short splicing of critical lines from the movie, along with things like "You have no idea how bad it gets" and "I wish I knew how to quit you.") It jarred me the first time I heard it, and I think I probably didn't think of the significance of the change as a result.
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2006, 09:49:41 am »
Did anyone else expect to hear the line without "Jack" in the middle of it? In the trailer, the "Jack" is cut out of that line. (It's just in a short splicing of critical lines from the movie, along with things like "You have no idea how bad it gets" and "I wish I knew how to quit you.") It jarred me the first time I heard it, and I think I probably didn't think of the significance of the change as a result.

Since I never saw a theatrical trailer for the film, I didn't know this. Thanks! Imagine--a year on and there are still things I can learn about Brokeback Mountain:D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline fernly

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2006, 10:32:50 am »
Since I never saw a theatrical trailer for the film, I didn't know this. Thanks! Imagine--a year on and there are still things I can learn about Brokeback Mountain:D

The trailer's what led me to the story and then to the film. Couldn't begin to say how many times I watched the trailer while waiting for the film's release. Never caught the change in that line, though.

Here's a link:
http://www.focusfeatures.com/viewer.php?f=brokeback_mountain&c=trailer&ext=wmv&w=480&&h=270
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2006, 10:58:14 am »
The trailer's what led me to the story and then to the film. Couldn't begin to say how many times I watched the trailer while waiting for the film's release. Never caught the change in that line, though.

Here's a link:
http://www.focusfeatures.com/viewer.php?f=brokeback_mountain&c=trailer&ext=wmv&w=480&&h=270

Yeehaw!  ;D Thanks, Fern! I think I'd better wait to check it out at home, however. ...  ::)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2006, 03:24:03 pm »
Let me say at the outset that I agree with all your interpretations of those lines. I like to think of them as near declarations of love, along with "sending up a prayer of thanks."

But -- this movie is SO torturously ambiguous! -- they also could be interepreted as:

"If you can't fix it, Jack, you gotta stand it." (We just have to put up with society's unbreakable rules.)

"For how long?" (How long do we have to go on like this?)

"As long as we can ride it." (As long as we can handle the frustration. ) "Ain't no reins on this one." (There's no way to change the rules.)

And much as I prefer to hear it the other way, I can't entirely blot that possibility out of my mind. Jeff, is that the way you used to interpret the scene before you changed your views?

Offline nakymaton

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2006, 03:34:34 pm »
Here's a link:
http://www.focusfeatures.com/viewer.php?f=brokeback_mountain&c=trailer&ext=wmv&w=480&&h=270

Ahhhh! Thank you, fernly!

*watches trailer*

Damn. I should see that movie. ;)

(I must've watched that trailer a thousand times, too. Watch trailer. Click link back to list of theaters showing movie. Watch trailer again. Search google news for stories. Check list of theaters showing the movie. Watch trailer. Repeat until unsatisfied. That was me a year ago.)
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Offline Mikaela

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2006, 04:23:53 pm »
"If you can't fix it, Jack, you gotta stand it." (We just have to put up with society's unbreakable rules.)

"For how long?" (How long do we have to go on like this?)

"As long as we can ride it." (As long as we can handle the frustration. ) "Ain't no reins on this one." (There's no way to change the rules.)


I've always thought it starts out the way you write here, and then it changes. I hear the entire exchange as follows:

"If you can't fix it, Jack, you gotta stand it." (We just have to put up with society's unbreakable rules.)

"For how long?" (How long do we have to go on like this?)

"As long as we can ride it." (As long as we can manage to meet up yet take care to fly under society's and the tire iron wielders' radar. ) "Ain't no reins on this one." (There's no limit to our feelings and how we might potentially happen to act - and what we might risk - as a consequence.)


So I suppose I see those last lines of Ennis's both as a declaration of love and commitment to Jack, but simultaneously as a premonition of bad things to come of it in the end.  :'(


Quote
Damn. I should see that movie.

I haven't seen the film since lateSeptember when I visited Meryl in New York. I'm afraid if I see it now it'll be just as completely devastating as before. And I'm even more scared that it might not have that impact on me any more.

I *am* going to see the film on Oscar night though. That's a promise and one I mean to keep!

« Last Edit: December 15, 2006, 04:38:35 pm by Mikaela »

Offline nakymaton

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2006, 04:32:31 pm »
You know, the exchange could be about society's rules... but "ain't no reins on this one" suggests something out of control, not rules that can't be broken. I imagine, I dunno, maybe an unbroken horse being ridden bareback -- something that Ennis wants to keep under control, but simply can't.

It's just a devastatingly sad line when I think about it. I mean, love as this untamed thing that ought to be broken?  :'( :'( :'(

(Mikaela, I haven't watched the movie since August. I don't plan to watch it again, not even on Oscar night, I don't think. But we'll see -- I swore off LotR, but right now I'm trying to catch up with a very fun re-reading that's happening on livejournal. But it's easier for me to go back to a book than to a movie. Books are the things that ultimately stick around for me.)
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Offline Mikaela

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2006, 04:52:14 pm »
Quote
"ain't no reins on this one" suggests something out of control, not rules that can't be broken. I imagine, I dunno, maybe an unbroken horse being ridden bareback -- something that Ennis wants to keep under control, but simply can't.

Yes, that's exactly the way I see this. And after all, the exchange takes place very soon after the reunion kiss - out in the open, "out of control". That he could behave like that must baffle and scare Ennis. He didn't intend to let go of the reins on his self-control, but suddenly they just weren't there. A struggle between lust and caution where for once his caution and self-control didn't win out. (I just can't help using those exact words here, I think it's so strange that Ang Lee's current film is actually titled Lust, Caution).


Mel, I must be honest enough to say that it seems I'm slowly winding down my BBM fan activity by now. And I've yet no wish to return to LotR.... that will take time. I just can't think of very much more to say re BBM. Fanfiction always is my last stage of fannishness and by now even the BBM fanfiction sector is moving towards that clique&wank&drama stage that has nothing to do with appreciation and consideration of canon, and which sends me scampering far away. So....  :-\

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2006, 05:44:11 pm »
The trailer's what led me to the story and then to the film. Couldn't begin to say how many times I watched the trailer while waiting for the film's release. Never caught the change in that line, though.

Here's a link:
http://www.focusfeatures.com/viewer.php?f=brokeback_mountain&c=trailer&ext=wmv&w=480&&h=270

OMG, that's as beautiful as the film itself. ...  :'(

Funny thing, though. You could take the clips in the order they are presented in that trailer and concoct yourself an entirely different story or plot.  :-\ (Of course, they didn't want to give away the movie in the trailer.)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2006, 06:05:08 pm »
And much as I prefer to hear it the other way, I can't entirely blot that possibility out of my mind. Jeff, is that the way you used to interpret the scene before you changed your views?

Tell you what, Katherine, until for some reason that I cannot explain this scene hit me like a ton of bricks back in August, to the best of my recollection my focus on this scene was limited to the similarities and differences between the story's motel scene and the film's motel-and-camping scene.

As a matter of fact, I might as well say it, at the risk of upsetting a lot of people, but getting slammed by this scene back in August has pretty much changed my entire emotional response to the film. I won't say I see it as less tragic, because that wouldn't be correct, but I now do see it as less--I don't know--operatic (?)--in the intensity of its emotions. And hand in hand with that, Film Ennis now looks more like Story Ennis to me than he did six months ago. I can't explain it, I just know this to be how I'm feeling.

And then again, I am hoping this Sunday evening to make the time to watch the DVD again. By calendar date, Sunday is one day shy of the first time I saw the film in the theater. And who knows but that something else will hit me like that proverbial ton of bricks and my understanding will change again.  :-\

In any case, as far as what is meant by the "ain't no reins on this one" comment, if I'm understanding them correctly, I agree with Mel and Mikaela. I think Ennis is talking about his (their?) emotions, rather than about society's rules. I think the intensity of the feeling that caused him to slam Jack up against a wall and kiss him outdoors in broad daylight scares the piss out of him (to use an Ennisism  ;D ).
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2006, 06:09:26 pm »
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2006, 11:03:48 pm »
Jeff, your discussion about changing emotional response to the film over all these months is really interesting.  I think as we go along and these discussions continue to evolve, we'll all begin to notice really big shifts in emotional response.  I sort of miss the early days... I mean in terms of my own emotional response.  I feel like I may have come to a point where I've analyzed and discussed the film so much that it's hard to access the truly raw emotional response I had in the early days.  I've deliberately forced myself not to watch the film for quite a while and I also haven't re-read the story for quite a long time to try to counter-act some of this (I know that someday soon this little BBM fast will come to an end... I'm feeling very itchy to watch the movie again... maybe tomorrow night  ;) ).  Sadly, this has caused some of my facts-at-fingertips type response to also slip when thinking about some of the analytical topics around here.  Anyway...  I love the film /story exactly as much as I always have, but in very different terms now (I think this is inevitable now that BBM is forever linked in my life experience to BetterMost, etc.).  This is off-topic, I know, but it seems important to bring up a bit here.  I know we've all discussed this scene (probably quite a lot) in other threads... again, it's just interesting to guage where we all are in our response to it after so much close discussion.

Anyway, back on topic a bit... I wonder how much of an understanding of this scene has to do with interpreting/translating Ennis-ese into more comprehensible terms and how much has to do with deeply personal responses to the scene by each individual viewer (and a bit to do with what we want Ennis to be saying here).  A key, and yes endlessly ambiguous question here, is how much of this is comprehensible to Jack as he's listening (or how do we guage his interpretation of Ennis's oblique statements here)?
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Offline nakymaton

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2006, 11:23:24 pm »
A key, and yes endlessly ambiguous question here, is how much of this is comprehensible to Jack as he's listening (or how do we guage his interpretation of Ennis's oblique statements here)?

That little cheek-stroke is really very tender and intimate. At that moment, at least, Jack seems to sympathize.
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2006, 12:05:30 am »
Jeff, your discussion about changing emotional response to the film over all these months is really interesting.  I think as we go along and these discussions continue to evolve, we'll all begin to notice really big shifts in emotional response.  I sort of miss the early days... I mean in terms of my own emotional response. 

Tell you what, I don't miss my earlier response. When I think back now to how passionately I felt about some things, to the arguments I got involved in, I'm ashamed of myself and wish I could apologize to everyone I ever argued with, here and back at IMDb. I'm glad "this thing" seems to have lost its grip on me.  :-\
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2006, 02:19:17 am »
Well, I didn't mean to imply that BBM had lost it's grip on me.  My fascination with it has just changed, that's all.  And, Brokie fever, at least for me, definitely comes in waves.  There was a time during the late summer when I thought I was calming down about all this.  But, no.  I wound up becoming intensely interested again, but in slightly different ways, and my activity around here only increased.  :-\  Yeehaw!!  :D :-*

OK, we should probably stop this and let the real topic of the thread resume.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2006, 02:57:28 am »
wish I could apologize to everyone I ever argued with

You can! Apology accepted, Jeff!   ;D :laugh: ;D :laugh: ;D :laugh: ;D

Kidding. I know what you both mean, Jeff and Amanda. My emotional response has become a little less raw and intense, and at the same time it's a little less blissfully romantic than it used to be. I'm more pragmatic, a bit more willing to entertain the possibility of the slightly bleaker perspectives that Jeff used to promote ( ;D) in our arguments. The two phenomena might not be related.

I haven't watched the movie for a few months, and I'm not sure at this point whether watching it would be a good idea or not. I'd like to hold on to whatever intensity of emotion I can sustain, and I can't tell whether absence makes the heart grow fonder or familiarity breeds ... well, not contempt of course, but let's say desensitization.

I get sad whenever I see somebody say this -- for example, Mikaela's post earlier made me a bit melancholy. But it's sort of an inevitable part of the process. I'll never move on from BBM and think, "Oh, OK, been there done that, now I'm going to be obsessed with (fill in the name of some other movie) instead." No. Never. Not to sound too ridiculous, but it's more like a religion. After a while, my love for BBM has become a central part of my worldview -- a part of my soul, really -- so that even though it's still always there and always affecting the way I see things, it's not constantly on the surface of my consciousness. Does that make sense?
 

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2006, 10:44:33 am »
I'd like to hold on to whatever intensity of emotion I can sustain, and I can't tell whether absence makes the heart grow fonder or familiarity breeds ... well, not contempt of course, but let's say desensitization.

I think I see what you're saying, but I wouldn't apply "desensitization" to my own current reactions. Even back in the old days of seeing the film in the theater, I would leave the theater feeling, somehow, spiritually uplifted--like church--and these days watching it still leaves me suffused with pleasure because I'm "with" Jack and Ennis, even in their pain.  :-\
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2006, 10:51:12 am »
I agree with you Jeff. There's something about the classical tragedy that draws people back over and over, and it's not a desire to wallow in morbidity. Somehow the most beautiful things are also the most tragic, in a way.

I can't watch the movie right now (I can't take no cake...) but I do relive the scenes in my mind, and I do look at the story everyday. It's getting so my briefcase is becoming not just the receptacle for work I have to do at home, but the ark of the covenant that I carry around with me for safekeeping, LOL!
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2006, 01:51:39 pm »
I agree with you Jeff. There's something about the classical tragedy that draws people back over and over, and it's not a desire to wallow in morbidity. Somehow the most beautiful things are also the most tragic, in a way.

Right, Lee, it isn't the desire to wallow in morbidity. You'd think I'da thunk this a long time ago, but only in the past week or so did I realize that the "spiritual uplift" I would feel leaving theater after seeing the movie is really catharsis, and I seem to remember somebody, maybe a high school English teacher, saying that catharsis is what you are "supposed to feel" from great classical tragedy.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Br. Patrick

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2006, 02:26:11 pm »
Wow, it's hard to believe that it's been almost a year since I discovered the story and the film.  I have seen this film 5 times in the theaters and 5 times on DVD and never heard the "Jack".   The film devastates me for days so I have to be careful if I need to be in control of my emotions publicly for the few days after a viewing.  I LOVE this scene.  First of all, it shows Ennis really smiling.  Lookin' up to heaven and giving thanks - so cool - and then it's back to reality.  If you can't fix it... to me is Ennis' DEFENSE MECHANISM for his whole life.  If you think of his biography, that's how he survived!  I had a similar one.   When I was about 8 years old I was left alone all night for the first time.  I sat in the middle of the floor and cried and cried and heard every creak in the house, the empty house, that I was now alone in.  My solution became My Defense Mechanism.  I promised myself never to NEED anyone ever!  And with one exception, I have never felt loneliness in my life because of that Defense Mechanism.  To say that it stunted my emotional growth would be an understatement.  BUT I SURVIVED.   I currently live alone, a Benedictine Monk (hermit).  The first time I saw BBM MY Defense Mechanism for not needing anyone ever disappeared!  I borrowed Ennis' "If you can't fix it.." until I could deal with this in therapy (I've been in therapy since 1989).   But Ennis is also using it to handle his own HOMOPHOBIA!  Look at his 'conflicted face' in the Motel while Jack BEAMS...   Early childhood trauma's scar us.  We create Defense Mechanisms to handle it.  But SOMETHING is ALWAYS LOST in that process.

peace :)
br. patrick
Lean on me, let our hearts beat in time,
Feel strength from the hands that have held you so long.
Who cares where we go on this rugged old road
In a world that may say that we're wrong.

...Cause I know - A love that will never grow old.

Gustavo Santaolalla & Bernie Taupin

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2006, 11:26:11 pm »
After a while, my love for BBM has become a central part of my worldview -- a part of my soul, really -- so that even though it's still always there and always affecting the way I see things, it's not constantly on the surface of my consciousness. Does that make sense?

Yes, it makes complete sense to me... and I suspect it probably makes sense to many long-time Brokies around here.  BBM has completely changed the way I move through the world... on deep and profound levels (too complex to go into here) and has even changed the way I react to mundane things.  Now, electric fans, the wind in the grass, coffeepots, whiskey, and sheep (to name just a few things) get me excited and whistful in ways never before contemplated prior to BBM.  And, I think my bond with y'all (with BetterMost Brokies in general) is especially strong because I feel like we've all gone through this process of discovery together.  We've had the experience together of figuring out some of the major themes, symbols, controversies, ambiguities, etc. that seem central to Brokeback.  I think I'm most nostalgic for those days of discovery.  I'm confident that BBM contains many more mysteries to unpack, but I'm also aware lately that many of the main themes have probably been teased out by now.  I'm very jealous of the newbies sometimes... and their awe and excitement... because I truly remember that (and still feel it... or at least know that it's there and legitimate).  And, at least some of us have had the collective bonding experience of the move from imdb to BetterMost (and back again in some cases).  When I think about all the deep thinking and debating we've done together on this board... it's truly amazing.
 :-*

cheers
Amanda
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2006, 10:14:28 am »
As a matter of fact, I might as well say it, at the risk of upsetting a lot of people, but getting slammed by this scene back in August has pretty much changed my entire emotional response to the film. I won't say I see it as less tragic, because that wouldn't be correct, but I now do see it as less--I don't know--operatic (?)--in the intensity of its emotions. And hand in hand with that, Film Ennis now looks more like Story Ennis to me than he did six months ago. I can't explain it, I just know this to be how I'm feeling.

And then again, I am hoping this Sunday evening to make the time to watch the DVD again. By calendar date, Sunday is one day shy of the first time I saw the film in the theater. And who knows but that something else will hit me like that proverbial ton of bricks and my understanding will change again.  :-\

(Geez, how self-referential is that--quoting myself?  ;D )

Anyway, had my Personal Anniversary Eve viewing last night. No changes in emotional response or understanding. Noticed, however, how tightly Ennis is gripping Jack's jacket when Jack embraces him after his collapse at the lake.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2006, 11:11:38 am »
  And, I think my bond with y'all (with BetterMost Brokies in general) is especially strong because I feel like we've all gone through this process of discovery together.  We've had the experience together of figuring out some of the major themes, symbols, controversies, ambiguities, etc. that seem central to Brokeback.

Good way to put it, Amanda. We're such a diverse group -- all ages and genders and ethnicities and sexualities and professions and nationalities and backgrounds, scattered around the world, people who might not have a lot in common otherwise and almost certainly would not have crossed paths any other way. Yet we have this one weird, powerful thing uniting us. I will never understand exactly why it happened to us, a small percentage of viewers of the movie, and not to either everybody else who saw it or nobody who saw it. But I'm glad it did! I feel proud to be a member of the Brokie community, strange an identity as that may be.  :-* :D

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2006, 05:33:25 pm »
Quote
From Katherine:
I will never understand exactly why it happened to us, a small percentage of viewers of the movie, and not to either everybody else who saw it or nobody who saw it. But I'm glad it did! I feel proud to be a member of the Brokie community, strange an identity as that may be.   

I agree with both parts of your statement. I'm glad it happened to me, but I still can't (fully) understand why.

But, and that's the difference to the early times, it's not bugging me anymore. I still wonder about the why and still think about it. But not as often anymore as it used to be.
Somehow I got used to live with the not-knowing, the not-understanding. And I'm ok with it now.
At the beginning of my obsession it drove me nuts, that I couldn't point my finger to THE one crucial reason why I respond to this movie/story the way I do.

Brokeback has become a part of my life, a part of me. Similar to what Amanda and you have said. It's just always there. And even if the obession will start to fade some day, Brokeback will not. It will stay with me.

And similar to Brokeback becoming a part of my life, the not-knowing has become a part of the whole experience. That's why it doesn't drive me nuts anymore.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2006, 05:36:11 pm by Penthesilea »

Offline Katie77

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Re: "If your can't fix it, Jack...You gotta stand it."
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2006, 06:59:25 pm »
Whenever I read these threads when we are asking ourselves "why" us, it always brings to mind the essay that Leslie wrote back in January, Brokeback Fever....

I have just attached it to Phillips thread for the newcomers who are trying to understand what is happening to them...and I will attach it here too, so we can read what was so prolifically written 12 months ago, and reflect on how we were feeling then, and how we are still feeling now..........

A New Clinical Entity: Brokeback Fever
By: Leslie H. Nicoll

   Forget Avian Flu. There’s a new disease sweeping the land, with the potential to infect millions of people and wreak havoc on the US economy through thousands of hours of lost worker productivity. It’s called Brokeback Fever.

   Brokeback Fever was first identified in 1997 when the short story, “Brokeback Mountain,” by author E. Annie Proulx, was published in The New Yorker. However, due to limited distribution and a small reading audience, the disease was kept in check. Now, with the release of the movie and its award winning status (Venice Film Festival, Critics Circle, Golden Globes, 8 Academy Award nominations, and numerous other accolades) it is likely that the disease will reach epidemic proportions in US and potentially, throughout the world.

   Epidemiologic study has identified the zero case as Diana Ossana, co-author (with Larry McMurtry) of the screenplay for the film. A self-described insomniac, Ossana read the story one sleepless night and in her words, “was weeping by the end, deep gut wrenching sobs.” This, in fact, is a classic symptom of Brokeback Fever.

   Ossana, in an effort to assuage her symptoms, optioned the story and wrote the screenplay with McMurtry. Through many long years, the story was always in the front of her mind. It is not known if release of the film has resolved Ossana’s illness. She has chosen not to publicly reveal that information.

   Brokeback Fever can be contracted in a variety of ways. Most common is reading the short story or seeing the movie. However, the illness has also been identified in people who have read about the movie, through reviews or interviews with those involved in its production, but have not yet seen the film. This latter form of infection has come about through the limited release strategy of the film’s distributor, Focus Features. It appears that indirect infection is no less virulent than the direct form of the disease.

   Symptoms include obsessive thinking about the movie/story, disturbed sleep patterns, weeping/sobbing, and a need to discuss it endlessly with family, friends, and co-workers. Some have reported physical symptoms, including aching joints, throbbing head, and a mild depression that can last for hours or days. Additional symptoms that have been identified include obsessive reading about the movie (reviews, interviews, etc), listening to the soundtrack repeatedly, and a desire to write fan letters to authors Proulx, Ossana, and McMurtry, director Ang Lee, and stars Heath Ledger, Jake Gyllenhaal, Michelle Williams, and Anne Hathaway.

   It appears that Brokeback Fever afflicts men and women equally. It also appears to cut across all age groups. While some speculated that the subject matter of the film (a story of forbidden love between two cowboys in Wyoming) would appeal to a primarily gay demographic, sufferers of Brokeback Fever come from all walks of life. It seems that no one is immune from the disease.

   At present there is no cure. Sufferers describe a variety of interventions in an effort to ameliorate their symptoms. The most common seems to be repeat viewings of the film. In extreme cases, some sufferers have reported seeing the movie so many times that they have lost count of the number. Others report beating their own personal best for seeing a movie in a theater. For example, one sufferer declared, “The only other movie I have seen more than once in a theater is ‘Titanic,’ which I saw twice. But I have seen Brokeback Mountain three times, and plan to go again.” Sufferers have reported traveling great distances to see the film. An Irish sufferer traveled three hours by train (one way) and paid a 50 Euro train fare to see the movie on one of six screens in Dublin, the only place it was playing in his country.

   Sufferers report finding solace in discussion groups, especially on the Internet. There, a community of fellow sufferers provides comfort, support, and understanding. In particular, the Internet seems to provide an appropriate forum to assist with the need to discuss the story, movie, and its characters endlessly. Common discussions include the motivations and actions of the main characters, the ending (what really happened), and preferred scenes. Sufferers also quote favorite bits of dialogue to each other, play games, (eg “Cowboy Etiquette”), and develop elaborate backstories for all the characters. Tangentially, sufferers discuss technical aspects of making the movie and share information about the real-life performers who were in the film. A particularly intriguing discussion is about what special features should/will be included on the DVD. This seems to give sufferers full rein to imagine all the scenes that were not included in the final film, as well as to learn more about its entire production from beginning to end.

   Unfortunately, while the Internet does provide solace, for some, the ongoing discussion seems to “fuel the fever” and worsen the illness. For example, at the Internet Movie Database (IMDb; www.imdb.com), the “Brokeback Mountain” discussion board has close to 110,000 messages, with new messages being posted every few seconds. Discussions on other movies that were in theaters at the same time as “Brokeback Mountain” are not nearly as active, with 30,117 messages for “King Kong,” 22,803 for “The Chronicles of Narnia,” and 15,442 for “Munich.” “Titanic,” another blockbuster love story and Academy Award winner, clocks in with a paltry 8,833. Sufferers with the Internet-addiction form of Brokeback Fever have reported spending too much time on the discussion boards, to the point where they are missing work or school. One sufferer, a college student, acknowledged that even though the current semester started two weeks prior, she had yet to open a textbook. It must be noted that things could be worse—at least she bought her books!

   Sufferers seem to recognize the extent of their disease, and echoing a poignant line from the film (“I wish I knew how to quit you”), ask how to quit Brokeback Mountain. Solutions, however, are sparse. And while many profess a desire to “quit BBM” (in Internet parlance) it seems that they are truly enjoying the experience and want it to last, even though they recognize it is disrupting their lives.

   Because it is a new clinical entity, it is not known if Brokeback Fever is an acute or chronic illness, although the zero case, as noted above, has seemed to suffer from it for at least eight years. Ongoing data collection about the illness and its clinical presentation should help to clarify this point.

   If you, or a loved one, are suffering from Brokeback Fever, there are a few things you can do. First, be thankful that you acquired Brokeback Fever and not the clinically offensive “Grandma’s Boy Fever.” If you have to watch a movie multiple times, at least it is one of the best movies that has ever been put to film and stands up well to repeated viewings. Second, if you have been active in Internet discussions, you have likely made new friends. Broadening your social circle is always a good thing. Third, give yourself to the experience. Many sufferers have described the experience of seeing “Brokeback Mountain” as being life-changing and transcendent. They have used it as an opportunity to examine their lives, re-think decisions, and strengthen relationships. We often need a trigger to make us move forward. Who knows where these triggers come from? The fact that this movie has reached so deeply into the hearts and minds of so many people speaks to its power to transform. So, rather than fighting the feeling, give yourself to it and see if it brings about positive change. Finally, be patient. Time is always a great healer. It is probable that the symptoms of Brokeback Fever will slowly subside, eventually becoming a warm spot in your heart and a very special memory in your mind.

   And rejoice in this fact: rumor has it that the DVD will be released on April 4th!

Leslie H. Nicoll is a Registered Nurse and owner of Maine Desk, LLC in Portland, Maine. She admits to an advanced case of Brokeback Fever and reports seeing the movie six times, as of this writing. She undertook this clinical analysis in an effort to cure herself of the disease.


Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect.

It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfection