Jack and Alma

[Aussie Chris]

That's what I figured. Is it an Australian phrase, or am I just living a sheltered life?

Nope, not Australian, sheltered life I think.  Off the top of my head, Bill and Ted said it in Bogus Journey.

[Rayn]

Now a run-out horse isn't a "positive" thing.  Worn-out and trembling from fatique isn't a good feeling.  And I don't see how a person's body shaking from head to boot can be a good thing.   I believe that's why Ennis notices this and gets them out of there quickly.  I will admit that it's possible that with the fear of meeting Alma, Jack is also feeling the excitement and urgency of meeting Ennis again; I'll go that far, but there clearly is a great deal of nervous fear in Jack as well. 

Well I've always taken Jack's shaking to be because he's just had the most electrying, passsionate, knock your socks off, check your chubby, and swoon-worthy kiss of his life.  In my mind, that's about as good a thing as you get!

Well, if I put myself in Jack's boots and imagine how I might feel in that situation, I'd be overjoyed to see & kiss Ennis and nervous and scared to meet Alma.... and I would feel double the fear if I were sportin' a woody in my wrangler jeans to match her husband's. 

Come on guys, these men are trying to hide what they feel.  Why?  Because of the fear of being discovered.   Jack won't even go into the house to have coffee the next morning.  Do you think that's because he' s relaxed, comfortable and fearless about the situation?   

It's actually rude of him not to spend a little more time with Alma.  I mean, he's taking her husband from her for days, but the combination of urgency, fear and discomfort around Alma is greater than any need for "proper" manners. 

I don't think what I'm saying can be overlooked without missing some human truth about feelings there, but if that's what you wanna do, then all I can do is agree to disagree...

Peace,
Rayn

[starboardlight]

Now a run-out horse isn't a "positive" thing.  Worn-out and trembling from fatique isn't a good feeling.  And I don't see how a person's body shaking from head to boot can be a good thing.   I believe that's why Ennis notices this and gets them out of there quickly.  I will admit that it's possible that with the fear of meeting Alma, Jack is also feeling the excitement and urgency of meeting Ennis again; I'll go that far, but there clearly is a great deal of nervous fear in Jack as well. 

Well I've always taken Jack's shaking to be because he's just had the most electrying, passsionate, knock your socks off, check your chubby, and swoon-worthy kiss of his life.  In my mind, that's about as good a thing as you get!

Well, if I put myself in Jack's boots and imagine how I might feel in that situation, I'd be overjoyed to see & kiss Ennis and nervous and scared to meet Alma.... and I would feel double the fear if I were sportin' a woody in my wrangler jeans to match her husband's. 

Come on guys, these men are trying to hide what they feel.  Why?  Because of the fear of being discovered.   Jack won't even go into the house to have coffee the next morning.  Do you think that's because he' s relaxed, comfortable and fearless about the situation?   

It's actually rude of him not to spend a little more time with Alma.  I mean, he's taking her husband from her for days, but the combination of urgency, fear and discomfort around Alma is greater than any need for "proper" manners. 

I don't think what I'm saying can be overlooked without missing some human truth about feelings there, but if that's what you wanna do, then all I can do is agree to disagree...

Peace,
Rayn

I see your point Rayn. I do think that nervousness is there. It's visible in Jake's portrayal, I think. But I think we were trying to figure out his shaking. While Jack might have been scared to meet Alma, I do think that it's his excitement to see Ennis that is dominant in him. To me the shaking comes from the electricity running through him from that kiss, not from being scared.

[RouxB]

Funny-I have never interpreted the shaking to mean anything other than excitement from the reunion with Ennis. "Run out horse" does not have a negative connotation to me-just a description of the trembling. Jack had no interest in anything or anyone but Ennis.

 

[Rayn]

Some of us are looking at the story and the movie at the same time, in case anyone is wondering.  Brokeback Mt. is both to me.  If you wanna talk only about one or the other, let us know.

"Trembling like a run-out horse" means like a "worn out horse"... it's also like tired-out or exhausted.  If you know horses, have ridden them a lot and taken care of them, you know it's not a positive thing... just ask any horse and if you don't believe the horse, ask Annie. 
Being around horses, she knows; so do I. 

There are some things that aren't open to interpretation, like definitions of words and common knowledge, you know?  I guess knowledge of horses isn't all that common.

Yours truly,
Rayn

[TJ]

In the book, when the description of Jack's body language is given, Jack is not in the apartment at all and he is standing side by side with Ennis when Alma opens the door wider the 2nd time.

Ennis did not go down to the ground level when Jack arrived; Jack ran up the stairs, two and two, to the upstairs landing where Ennis was standing.

In the book, there is no detail as to what happened when they went back to Ennis's place to get his stuff and they go camping for a few days. Ennis calls Alma from the rented room in the Motel Siesta to tell her what he is going to do and then there is a triple-line spacing after that paragraph to show that what is in the next paragraph happens later.

The next paragraph has Alma working for the Riverton grocer. After Ennis and Alma moved to Riverton, he worked on the highway on weekdays and on weekends, he worked at a ranch to pay for the keep of his horses. (The movie has Ennis working for the highway department before they move to town.)

I really believe that Jack Twist really did not want to meet Alma in the first place. That's why he was so nervous when he saw her after she opened the door a 2nd time. If she had not opened the door the 2nd time, I just think that Jack would have been told to go back down to his truck and wait for Ennis, or Ennis might have just opened the door and got his hat and said, "Alma, see you later."

The movie has Ennis drinking several longnecks (that's beer in bottles) during the day before Jack arrives. But, according to Annie Proulx, there is no consumption of alcohol in the apartment that day. And, even after the guys get a bottle on the way to the motel, they are making out in the motel room 20 minutes after they leave Alma behind.

[Rayn]

In the book, when the description of Jack's body language is given, Jack is not in the apartment at all and he is standing side by side with Ennis when Alma opens the door wider the 2nd time. Ennis did not go down to the ground level when Jack arrived; Jack ran up the stairs, two and two, to the upstairs landing where Ennis was standing. .....That's why he was so nervous when he saw her after she opened the door a 2nd time. If she had not opened the door the 2nd time, I just think that Jack would have been told to go back down to his truck and wait for Ennis, or Ennis might have just opened the door and got his hat and said, "Alma, see you later."

That's right and thanks for the clarification TJ. 

Thanks also for the acknowledgement that Jack is real nervous in the situation.  However, all of us are getting Off Topic. It's so easy to do and fun too!   Huh...?  LOL   I think the topic we were talking about is the possibility of competitiveness between Jack and Alma.  Weren't we?

Who out there knows? Please guide us back!

Peace,
Rayn

[Brown Eyes]

I think the topic we were talking about is the possibility of competitiveness between Jack and Alma.  Weren't we?

Who out there knows? Please guide us back!

Peace,
Rayn

Hi Rayn,
Yup, when I originally started this topic it was to consider the possible competitiveness between Jack and Alma.  Thanks for all the interesting thoughts!

[TJ]

That's right and thanks for the clarification TJ. 

Thanks also for the acknowledgement that Jack is real nervous in the situation.  However, all of us are getting Off Topic. It's so easy to do and fun too!   Huh...?  LOL   I think the topic we were talking about is the possibility of competitiveness between Jack and Alma.  Weren't we?

Who out there knows? Please guide us back!

Peace,
Rayn

Hi Rayn,
Yup, when I originally started this topic it was to consider the possible competitiveness between Jack and Alma.  Thanks for all the interesting thoughts!

I think that such competitiveness between the two would more than likely been coincidental.

In my closeted days in the latter half of the 1970s when I was a graduate theology student at Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, I had a non-sexual good-buddy relationship with an over 25 year old undergraduate student who was also married. (I didn't leave the closet until 1984.) I think Gary's wife was jealous of our relationship. While I never kissed him, neither of us had a problem hugging each other in public. After I had dropped out of school, we had known each other for 5 semesters, and had been out of state a couple of months, I called his home number and let him know that I was back in town at my folks. He drove over in his pick-up  truck and we hugged right in the driveway between our house and the neighbors'. And anyone driving by could have seen that, too.

Actually, Gary gave the reason for us to stop seeing each other as much after I was out of school that it was due to his wife's health and she was no longer comfortable with my presence, she had also had a baby. Gary and I never did anything that would be kept a secret or that we would be ashamed of anyone knowing.

Many right-wing Bible-thumpers claimed that Ennis committed adultery with Jack and that was cheating on Alma. But, I just feel that Alma, being a country girl, might have been really naive and assumed that Jack and Ennis were committing adultery alright, but it was with other women. Many married good-buddy types have done things together with women who were not their wives.

 

[korgriff]

WOW atz I it never even occured to me that the Jack Nasty comment would make Ennis want to defend Jack!!  I just thought that his reaction was because she had 'outed' him.  But now that you mention it - he loved Jack so her insulting him would automatically put him on the defensive!  Wow that never hit me.  This is why I love these boards!

I dont know if I think that Jack and Alma thought of each other as rivals.  I mean Jack knows that Ennis wants him and that Alma cant give him what Jack can, anatomicly speaking.  Which is why they never get jealous of other women  If there is any rivalry at all I have to agree that it is about the everyday stuff.  Like the cooking and washing clothes and generally just seeing each other.  I think if Jack was jealous of anything - it was that Alma got to see Ennis everyday and do the things for and with him that Jack wanted to do.