Author Topic: Brokeback Mountain inspired Fan Fic recommendations  (Read 32397 times)

Offline Bigheart

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Re: Brokeback Mountain inspired Fan Fic recommendations
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2007, 12:09:57 pm »
Seriously June, any and all constructive criticism is welcome on my stories. Believe me... after years of writing workshops where you pretty much only hear the negative aspects of your writing I've built up a really thick skin... I didn't mind you saying that about that part of my story at all! I had wondered while writing it how it would sit and because you were honest I know and will most likely rework it in revision.

Of course, I can't say what other readers will do... but if they were to jump on you I would step in. It is really hard with fan fiction and I'm the same way, I've noticed myself just not commenting if there is something that doesn't sit right.Also, just for myself, only getting positive feedback makes for really lazy writing, because I get in the groove of "everybody likes my story, yay!"

There are so many problems with TLBoH that I cringe sometimes when I think about it and one day I'm going to go back and revise the hell out of it  :)

Yeah, I had that the other day with one I've been reading and commenting on all along. It was just off to me and believe me I'm an easy reader, not all that picky at all. I just didnt comment on it. Maybe I should, I don't know. I just find it hard especially if everybody loves what I thought was off.

Offline louisev

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Re: Brokeback Mountain inspired Fan Fic recommendations
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2007, 12:11:09 pm »

Also, just for myself, only getting positive feedback makes for really lazy writing, because I get in the groove of "everybody likes my story, yay!"

There are so many problems with TLBoH that I cringe sometimes when I think about it and one day I'm going to go back and revise the hell out of it  :)

absolutely true... it isnt all about liking a story.. especially if one of the reasons you are writing is to learn more and improve.

Everybody can use an edit... when I published a novel at last in print, I had two editors go at it separately and independently, and one of them found such a glaring tic in the text that I felt like kissing her feet for findiing it. I would NOT want to notice that after it got printed!  You might want to make sure on your fic announcements you say "Feedback and Constructive Criticism Welcome" so that people who are good at noticing the glitches can start giving you their free help.  Leslie has been a tremendous help in that department and so has Betty (yb) who seems to catch things I never see, and whips them off to me as soon as the chapter posts.  And I keep thinking... one of these days, I'm going back for a complete revise of all of this stuff!
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline littleguitar

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Re: Brokeback Mountain inspired Fan Fic recommendations
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2007, 12:51:09 pm »
absolutely true... it isnt all about liking a story.. especially if one of the reasons you are writing is to learn more and improve.

Everybody can use an edit... when I published a novel at last in print, I had two editors go at it separately and independently, and one of them found such a glaring tic in the text that I felt like kissing her feet for findiing it. I would NOT want to notice that after it got printed!  You might want to make sure on your fic announcements you say "Feedback and Constructive Criticism Welcome" so that people who are good at noticing the glitches can start giving you their free help.  Leslie has been a tremendous help in that department and so has Betty (yb) who seems to catch things I never see, and whips them off to me as soon as the chapter posts.  And I keep thinking... one of these days, I'm going back for a complete revise of all of this stuff!

I know exactly how that is... and sometimes it really does take another set of eyes because the writer has read over their story so many times that they start reading what they want it to say and not what it actually does say.  And like you said, I'm all for writing to learn and improve. Especially because I've noticed the laziness seaping into my original writing.

Yeah, I had that the other day with one I've been reading and commenting on all along. It was just off to me and believe me I'm an easy reader, not all that picky at all. I just didnt comment on it. Maybe I should, I don't know. I just find it hard especially if everybody loves what I thought was off.

That happened to me recently too June, and with a really popular story... I found myself leaving just a few lines of comment where I usually leave a lot more. Then I was angry with myself for not just speaking up, especially because I think this author really wouldn't have minded. *shrug* But, like Louise says, everyone here was so inspired by brokeback and writes with so much care and love that sometimes I just don't want to say anything to ruin it.
‘cause the truth is, I already give him everythin’ I got to give, more than I ever even knew I had; ‘n it all for him, all of it, him who is my brother, my father, my child, my friend, my lover, my heart, my soul; my Ennis.

-- del Mar Painting, Ch. 48 by b73

Offline Mikaela

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Re: Brokeback Mountain inspired Fan Fic recommendations
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2007, 02:59:59 pm »
Very interesting discussion.

Especially to me who is a reader only and never a fic writer, at least not in relation to BBM.

My policy in leaving feedback has always been that there's too much negativity in the world as it is, so I make sure to leave a positive comment, giving details on the aspects that I liked, when a fic touches my heart or tickles my funny bone for that matter. Otherwise I just keep mum and pass it by in silence. The authors work so hard on their stories, invest so much effort and time and care, - they try their very best - and all of it is a tribute to the original that inspired it. So who am I to tell people their effort isn't good enough or doesn't meet my (after all clearly subjective) criteria?

However, I've been a beta a couple of times and though I am careful to be balanced in my opinions and to always point to the stuff that works and the good aspects , as a beta I'm also entirely candid in pointing to errors, things that do not work, inconsistencies etc. be it in plot, characterization, timeline, writing style etc. and to explain and discuss my opinion further if necessary.


Quote
Yeah, I had that the other day with one I've been reading and commenting on all along. It was just off to me and believe me I'm an easy reader, not all that picky at all. I just didnt comment on it. Maybe I should, I don't know. I just find it hard especially if everybody loves what I thought was off.

This happened to me recently when one very popular fics that I had invested a lot of interest and enthusiasm in turned out a chapter that to me nearly ruined the entire fic. It was off in characterization for several important OCs and in important parts of the plot taking a turn for the realm of unrealistic disbelief, damaging the entire fic and the main characters in the process IMO. I refrained from commenting at all on that chapter and several of the subsequent ones.   I'm still wondering whether I should have commented, explained why it was off to me and how it IMO impacted the fic - perhaps the author would have wanted that and would have seen it as constructive criticism. Perhaps she could have made sense of some of her choices that I still think were completely detrimental to the realism of the fic. But you never know, and so I kept silent.


« Last Edit: January 06, 2007, 03:15:15 pm by Mikaela »

Offline Bigheart

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Re: Brokeback Mountain inspired Fan Fic recommendations
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2007, 03:10:28 pm »

My policy in leaving feedback has always been that there's too much negativity in the world as it is, so I make sure to leave a positive comment, giving details on the aspects that I liked, when a fic touches my heart or tickles my funny bone for that matter. Otherwise I just keep mum and pass it by in silence. The authors work so hard on their stories, so much effort and time and care, - they try their best - and all of it is a tribute to the original that inspired it - so who am I to tell people their effort isn't good enough or doesn't meet my after all clearly subjective criteria?



Well, that's exactly how I feel too and what I do. I ALWAYS try to keep in mind with how much love the fic must have been written and how much time and care must have gone into it. And that's why I find it hard to bring up things I didn't like, and just keep quiet about it and don't mention it in my comment or not comment at all. I do know of some author's that would really appreciate hearing the lesser parts of their stories and maybe there are a lot more out there that would appreciate it too. As long as it's put forward in a respectful and pleasant way.

one_of_one

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Re: Brokeback Mountain inspired Fan Fic recommendations
« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2007, 04:15:24 pm »
one very popular fics that I had invested a lot of interest and enthusiasm in turned out a chapter that to me nearly ruined the entire fic. It was off in characterisation for several important OCs and in important parts of the plot taking a turn for the realm of unrealistic disbelief, damaging the entire fic and the main characters in the process IMO. I refrained from commenting at all on that chapter and several of the subsequent ones.   I'm still wondering whether I should have commented, explained why it was off to me and how it IMO impacted the fic - perhaps the author would have wanted that and would have seen it as constructive criticism. Perhaps she could have made sense of some of her choices that I still think were completely detrimental to the realism of the fic. But you never know, and so I kept silent.

Hi Mikaela - I can only speak for myself but if you were reading something I had written and that happened then I would want to know.  Most definitely.  I  am too emmeshed in what I am writing to be able to step back and look at everything the way a first time reader can; this is exacerbated by the fact that I post chapters a short time after writing them, so don't have the distance that a couple of week break gives you to look over it with a clearer mind.  In one of my fics that I recently reread  there was something that happened that just came from nowhere, and had absolutely no reference point and I just hid my head under the bedcovers in shame thinking about it.

However, that does not apply to other authors, even if they do say all feedback welcome.  My preference is to both give and receive constructive criticism, and when I am giving it I usually mention something minor that I had a problem with in order to gauge the writer's reaction.  Or I look at other comments to see if anyone else has brought something up previously. If they are not keen on the less positive, or seem overly defensive,  then I just shut up - it's their fic after all.  And to be honest there has only been one author who has been happy to listen to what I have to say, who has responded in a pleasant way and who has disagreed with what I've said without getting pedantic about it.

There is also the problem that if you do criticise the author is fine with it, but one gets a whole string of comments following yours defending the author, mostly having "Well I thought it was amazing/wonderful/perfect/whatever" in the post somewhere.  That would piss me off in a major way because I want feedback of all kinds and don't want anyone to be put off giving it because of the reactions of others to that feedback.  Luckily that's never happened :)  What has happened, though, is people prefacing their criticism with a mass of apology, as if I'm going to be mortally offended that someone had the audacity to even think I would be responsive to criticism.  And I find that sad.  As long as people are polite and respectful, combine the good with the not so good, then I am extremely grateful that they felt I was the kind of author to whom they felt the could mention all aspects of writing.  And I love to get into a discussion too.

Also, and this may sound quite odd, I would really like it if someone who disliked something I'd written took the time to write a critique of why they weren't interested in it; whether it be writing style, characterisation, use of grammar/spelling, sentence structure, subject matter. etc etc.  I feel I could really learn from something like that.  Obviously if all they felt inclined to say was "this is shite, I hated it" I would totally discount it as the worthless remark it is.

For me, all writing is about learning and improving and there's no way I can do that if no one tells me where they think I'm going wrong.

Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Brokeback Mountain inspired Fan Fic recommendations
« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2007, 04:24:02 pm »
I certainly we come all feed back on my short stories and wound not mind at all constructive criticism. i do try to make everting as accurate as possable even the weather. I can see were one would think I write to 'Brady Bunch' ( nothing tragic ever happens, etc.), sappy or whatever. I do realize the Jack and Ennis would have faced many challenges where I set them whether gay or straight.
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

one_of_one

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Re: Brokeback Mountain inspired Fan Fic recommendations
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2007, 04:29:35 pm »
Unfashionable as considering historical accuracy important apparently is, reading that would drive me absolutely insane. A little like having two ancient Roman centurions calling each other "dude."

I agree with you, and I am so pleased that Nobody's Angel is set in an era and location that I know almost nothing about because I am incredibly anal about such things, and I so totally love that story.  I was reading another fic that I do know quite a bit about both the location and era; the inaccuracies were just too much for my pedant's brain and I had to give it up.

Looking at the flip side of this when I'm supposedly writing about America I am all to aware that I am deficient in knowledge about all kinds of things, and welcome any comments which point them out, because I do want to know.  And am hugely embarrassed not to be correct in what I say.  For instance in one fic I wrote I had this huge long part about the I-90 which I chopped after someone pointed out it hadn't actually been constructed at the time the story was set!  ARGH!


mvansand76

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Re: Brokeback Mountain inspired Fan Fic recommendations
« Reply #48 on: January 06, 2007, 04:42:25 pm »
I agree with everybody that accuracy is a very important issue when writing, but I do wonder how strict you have to be. When I write I try to be as accurate as possible, not just about the time it is set in, but also in how characters react to things (actions and dialogue). I think the latter is much, much more important than historical accuracy. At least in fanfic.

This whole discussion also has to do with the canon writer, Annie Proulx who always investigates extremely thoroughly before she starts writing.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2007, 04:46:27 pm by mvansand76 »

one_of_one

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Re: Brokeback Mountain inspired Fan Fic recommendations
« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2007, 04:46:40 pm »
My policy in leaving feedback has always been that there's too much negativity in the world as it is, so I make sure to leave a positive comment, giving details on the aspects that I liked, when a fic touches my heart or tickles my funny bone for that matter. Otherwise I just keep mum and pass it by in silence. The authors work so hard on their stories, invest so much effort and time and care, - they try their very best - and all of it is a tribute to the original that inspired it. So who am I to tell people their effort isn't good enough or doesn't meet my (after all clearly subjective) criteria?

I totally understand where you are coming from here.  :) 

For me as a fanfic writer I may have put a lot of effort into writing something but there is always, always room for improvement and I really do want to know what people find wrong with my writing.  Because it is only then that I can look at what I've written, take in what the criticism is and either accept it or dismiss it.  Either way, I have learnt something. 

I feel really frustrated sometimes because I get so little concrit. I know I have limitations as a writer, but it's so difficult to work out just what those limitations are unless someone else points them out to me.  Some things I manage to work out myself but it is a very slow and discouraging process.  A little help from a few readers would be more than welcome. :)