Author Topic: It's back.... with a vengeance.  (Read 11108 times)

Offline Daniel

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It's back.... with a vengeance.
« on: April 12, 2006, 11:26:18 pm »
For those of you who remember my momentary relapse with a particular obsession from the original PT board, and my supposed defeat of that obsession, it has returned.... more strongly than ever.

I'm not certain what I'm supposed to do. I mean, this is rediculous. I can't live out the rest of my life pining excessively for a person who will probably never even realize that I exist. I was told by a spiritual advisor to share my feelings with my friends, and you all are probably the closest resemblance to that that I have right now. I have shared more with you than I have anyone else and I am extremely grateful for your already great support and loving kindnesses.

So anyway, here goes. I am going to share my feelings, completely, irrevocably, without holding back anything, so that you all might understand me and hopefully offer healing words of advice. The traditional words of wisdom of the Beatles "Let it be." isn't exactly working right now, and I have done everything that was originally suggested: maintained a physically active lifestyle, eaten more fruits and vegetables, staying away from artificial foods with preservatives and sweeteners, and while this has helped me feel physically better, I am emotionally, mentally, and spiritually reeling.

Anyway, here are my feelings, and they are all centered on a particular person (whom I do not even know personally but feel like I do for some reason).
This is probably going to get a little poetic, but please don't consider the words as poetry, I'm trying to say something here.

If you could enter my being, the first thing that you would become aware of would be an intensely beautiful, ecstatic pain in the chest region. It feels almost like your lungs have collapsed so that every breath you breathe in is like a little piece of heaven. Breathing out is excessively painful in a sickening way.

From time to time, tingling courses down the arms and legs, shooting to the toes and fingertips. This tingling is not painful, but somewhere on the border of ecstatic and uncomfortable.

Now, that is the normal state of affairs, without any particular thinking or course of emotional expectation. You can imagine the experiences and feelings I go through when I think about a particular person: Jake Gyllenhaal. Even typing his name causes my body to melt. It is an indefinable experience, but it is as though every muscle in the body relaxes but remains at a state of high alertness. This experience generates a body-length ache that is eased sometimes by walking and moving about, but ultimately such movement is floating in a cloud of pain.

So, generally, a burning, tingling, ache defines my daily existance. Focusing upon the cause of these sensations: his image, his voice enhances the experience 100-fold. The pain becomes sharp and stabbing. And believe me when I tell you that I have no interest in being stabbed in the heart, because I think I know what it will feel like (at least in the few seconds before it stops working completely). The experience of euphoric ecstasy is also enhanced 100-fold. So I stand here, thinking about a particular person, breathing in heaven and breathing out hell.

The sad thing is, there is a part of me that is enjoying this experience. There is also a part of me that seems to think this experience is abnormal, unnecessary, and unwanted. For one thing, the experience of pain is keeping me from many things I want to do, despite how enjoyable it is.

And so the mind creates the object of obsession. Hallucinations, dreams, nightmares, false memories all centering upon you-know-who. Pretense of being with him eases a great deal of the pain and pressure within the chest. Seeing his image physically allows somewhat normal breathing though the pain is still present.

In other words, I'm a complete mess, and I probably need help. I'm loathe to seek psychiatric assistance because I do not like the drugs they give me. They numb the mind and only partially work on the pain. And besides, ultimately, I think the pain has meaning. There is something going on within the self that is trying to resolve, and I want very much for that resolution to occur.
Why do we consume what we consume?
Why do we believe what we believe?
Why do we accept what we accept?
You have a body, a mind, and a soul.... You have a responsibility.

Offline David

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2006, 11:45:44 pm »
Hi Daniel.

     Ah, the torture of obsession.   We have all been there to some degree.   I too have had those hurtful yearnings.   But eventually I had to face the reality that this guy was unobtainable and  being around him only hurt me further.    There is no easy answer.    All you can do is try to occupy yourself with other interests and close friends.

Will the longing ever go away?    Beats the hell out of me.   I think we all carry the memory of someone special with us forever.    The only thing you need to worry about is separating reality from fantasy.   Fantasy is great, but only if you control it, not if it controls you.

Offline Daniel

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2006, 11:53:52 pm »
I realize that, and that is one of the things that helped me get over this same obsession the last time I had it. I thought it had gone away, for good. And it came back, worse than ever.

In particular the reading of "Love's Executioner" was extremely helpful that one time. And I remember breaking down into tears when Dr. Yalom told his patient "But he never loved you to begin with." I am continually telling myself that. But there is some part of me that is replying, "There's nothing to prevent him from starting now."

Is this fantasy? I don't think so, its not as prominent in the mind as fantasy. It is very subtle, very appealing, and I am having great difficulty resisting it. It is the same subtle voice from which springs my poetry, and I have enjoyed listening to it in the past. Why should this be any different? Because of its nigh impossibility?

If it feels like I am arguing with you, then perhaps I am trying to play devil's advocate. I am playing with ideas here, finding the ones that make the most sense, learning to live with myself again.
Why do we consume what we consume?
Why do we believe what we believe?
Why do we accept what we accept?
You have a body, a mind, and a soul.... You have a responsibility.

Offline David

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2006, 11:57:18 pm »
Talking about this kinda stuff is the best thing to do.   And you have plenty of ears to bend and shoulders to lean on here.    :)

Offline Daniel

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2006, 12:03:19 am »
Well, my "Brokeback Mountain" DVD arrived today. Stupid me, I actually opened the cardboard box... I forgot "he" was on the cover.

As I felt the pain well up, I immediately shuffled the DVD with the other product I had brought and began rummaging through its pages.

Wrong thing to do. Enchanted Love: The Mystical Power of Intimate Relationships is not helpful in this scenario.

Why do we consume what we consume?
Why do we believe what we believe?
Why do we accept what we accept?
You have a body, a mind, and a soul.... You have a responsibility.

Offline Daniel

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2006, 12:17:02 am »
In case no one noticed it, that was a sore attempt at humor.
Why do we consume what we consume?
Why do we believe what we believe?
Why do we accept what we accept?
You have a body, a mind, and a soul.... You have a responsibility.

Offline Sheyne

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2006, 12:29:13 am »

*sniff*

I'm here with ya, bud.

*hugs*
Chut up!

Offline Daniel

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Apologies for anything painful I've ever said.
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2006, 12:38:23 am »
Thanks... I could use as many hugs as possible right now.

______________________________________________

I would like to apologize to everyone either here or on the PT boards that I have accidentally hurt, misled, or emotionally confused. I have never intended anyone harm and if anything I have posted has caused harm, I would like to apologize, right here and now.

I realize how precious our community is, how important your friendship is to me, and I want to make certain I don't do anything to jeopardize it. So if I have hurt you in some way in the past let me know and I will reconcile if I can.

As I have said before, several times. I am completely insane (doesn't this obsession prove it?), and if what I am saying somehow grates against your nerves, its probably not you, its probably me.

But I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate being able to share myself with you. All of you. It really is quite meaningful.
Why do we consume what we consume?
Why do we believe what we believe?
Why do we accept what we accept?
You have a body, a mind, and a soul.... You have a responsibility.

Offline monimm18

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2006, 12:41:14 am »
Jesus, Daniel, reading your post, the way you wrote it, I could fall in love with him too, just from empathising.

Do you think that staying away from anything Jake Gyllenhaal for a while would help? Or is it an impossible thing to do?

I always thought talking is great therapy, so share away, hon. We're listening.

I so wish I could give you a real hug...

Moni
"Don't be merely satisfied with a better life. We should demand to live in a better world."

vkm91941

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2006, 12:42:36 am »
Post away Daniel...musings are often the most beneficial form of self awareness and you never know when your thoughts might touch another life outside your own.  ;)  ::hugs::  I have to say that poem you seen me with the anagram is even more poignant now!

Offline DeeDee

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2006, 12:45:27 am »
First of all, you have nothing to apologize for.  I can't speak for others, but sharing your feelings is not offensive in any way.
I think we all felt at one time in our lives, like you do.
So if you want to rant or cry or scream, I'll be an ear you can have.

Lots of love! :-*
In America sex is an obsession.  In other parts of the world it is a fact.

Marlene Dietrich

Offline Daniel

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2006, 01:00:20 am »
Jesus, Daniel, reading your post, the way you wrote it, I could fall in love with him too, just from empathising.

Do you think that staying away from anything Jake Gyllenhaal for a while would help? Or is it an impossible thing to do?

I always thought talking is great therapy, so share away, hon. We're listening.

I so wish I could give you a real hug...

Moni


I'm not sure. I've tried that. Invariably some part of my mind recreates him: i.e. dream/nightmare.

In some ways, when I go out of my way to find some film in which he has performed, I feel as though I am feeding my soul, but some part of my mind also wonders if I am actually feeding the obsession. Yes, I rented Jarhead and Proof both in order to experience some type of closer communion with the shadows of a person projected upon a screen. Which is also rediculous, but I did it for that reason, nonetheless.

Proof was a mistake. I should have avoided it completely. There is a scene there, well I'm sure those of you who know this film know the scene I am talking about, that broke my being when I first experienced it. Well, I'm not entirely certain that it was a mistake, I remember enjoying the film overall, but that one particular scene when his voice becomes divinely imbued with angelic qualities and he provokes inner desire and stokes an inner fire. Then I wondered if it was the words he had spoken, which weren't his after all, but those of some screenwriter/playwright. I decided it was a combination. The words were beautiful, but would they have been less beautiful if it had been some other actor performing them? I can't tell. I don't know.

Do I love him because he's beautiful,
Or is he beautiful because I love him....?

Bubbling insanity.
Mystic madness in the night.
Why do we consume what we consume?
Why do we believe what we believe?
Why do we accept what we accept?
You have a body, a mind, and a soul.... You have a responsibility.

vkm91941

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2006, 01:09:49 am »
Your poetry is another outlet for expressing these feelings.  You've created some beautiful poems and you should post them on the Better Most Fan Fiction board. So more people can see and enjoy them.  The feedback on your words can be very healing.   There is an other poet posting there as well...here's a clickable link, but it's easy to find on the main forums page

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?board=13.0

Offline Daniel

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2006, 01:28:59 am »
Good advice, Vicky. Thanks

I also hope that no one minds if I go completely crazy on this board. I may need to do word associations, freeform writing (I can already see where that will be helpful), imagery explorations, and other explorations of psychological and philosophical substances. I certainly hope that no one minds, and will feel free to reply to them. I may say something in one of these rambling instances which will shed light on the situation, and I certainly need as much light as I can find in the maze of darkness. Now if I could only figure out the destination.
Why do we consume what we consume?
Why do we believe what we believe?
Why do we accept what we accept?
You have a body, a mind, and a soul.... You have a responsibility.

Offline Sheyne

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2006, 01:36:17 am »

Nope, let me be the first to say I don't mind.  We're all here cause we love this film and that includes everything in it, except Randy Quaid, who's proven himself to be a bit of a prat, but I'll still forgive him.  :P

I know what its like to be obsessed with somebody.  I have an obsessive personality which - over time, I have learnt to control, somewhat. Mind you, it all went out the window with BBM - I'm in over my head and I love it. (dangerous, no?)  And I wouldn't hold it against you to be obsessed with Jake G. Every spare minute of my day is filled with fantasies and grotty thoughts.

We're here to help / listen / send you hugs & kisses.  Just don't go to too-dark-a-place on us, Daniel, ok?  Talk to us before you let yourself sink..

*hugs again*
sheyne.
Chut up!

Offline Daniel

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2006, 01:38:50 am »
Not that type of "maze of darkness". I suppose I could have said "maze of light", but I was using darkness figuratively as a lack of knowledge. :)
Why do we consume what we consume?
Why do we believe what we believe?
Why do we accept what we accept?
You have a body, a mind, and a soul.... You have a responsibility.

Offline Daniel

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Free flow, no need to respond... :)
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2006, 02:21:37 am »
pain pain pain pain blossoms in the core understanding never what is the purpose of life what is the purpose of love do we understand anything in this world I need but what do I need I love but what do I love blue rich deep yearning pain pain pain pain the existence of man is second nature to his pain but death defies us all and life has no meaning or does it and in the depths of pain what meaning can be found for whom does the heart ache it aches for thee pain pain pain pain some inner desire for meaning pain pain pain pain some inner desire for love pain pain pain pain is it agony or is it flame? And in the depths of darkness wane the light eternal springs again what is that light that it should shine eternally upon these eyes of mine the light of inner soul as soul calls out to soul love light awareness truth inner perfection harm to the heart is not harm the heart is invulnerable it cannot be hurt the soul is eternal all else transient pain is false awareness joy is hope awareness springs from unknown caverns water trickles from eyes soul water from soul life from soul salt earth earth and life from soul solid and energy together create love and life fuel souls knowledge is it agony or is it flame? flame of creation light of possibility extension of the self into an obsessive mindset why? to obsess is to know to obsess is to feel to obsess is to experience why? soul mind heart soul mind heart soul mind heart soul mind heart the heart knows but will not say the soul experiences every day the mind is blind and thats all for now.
Why do we consume what we consume?
Why do we believe what we believe?
Why do we accept what we accept?
You have a body, a mind, and a soul.... You have a responsibility.

Offline ednbarby

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2006, 09:09:02 am »
Here's another hug from me, dear Daniel.  I understand completely what you're going through, because I went through the same thing after seeing Shakespeare in Love.  I was absolutely, over the moon, out of my mind, obsessed with Joseph Fiennes.  Like you feel, just writing or typing his name was ecstasy.  But it was pain, too.  I rented everything he had ever done.  I ordered his recording of Romeo and Juliet and listened to it every day in my car for two months, I think it was.  I could not get enough of his voice.  Looking at photos of him was actually painful.  I only put ones up in my office in which he was not looking at the camera, because to look into his eyes dead on was agonizing in a way only you can seem to so beautifully describe.  I wrote poetry and fanfic about him.  Every song I heard reminded me of him.  I played "In Your Eyes" by Peter Gabriel ad nauseum, thinking that it was in his eyes I could see the doorway of a thousand churches.  And all the while here I was (and still am) what I consider to be a happily married woman.  The only thing, I'm terribly sorry to say, that got me over it was time.  And a lot of it.  Really, more than that, I think I made myself almost hate him with too much familiarity.  I beat my own obsession with him into the ground.  Sad thing now is I can't watch anything he's done recently and enjoy it on *any* level.

I think knowing that, and starting to feel that exact same pull for Jake that I felt for him, I pulled back as quickly and resolutely as I could so as not to come to practically hate him someday like I have the other.  With Joseph Fiennes, I read every bit of information about him I could get my greedy little hands on.  I knew about all his conquests, girlfriends, live-in partners, break-ups.  All of it.  I watched every interview, every documentary (one has actually been made about the Fiennes family because they are all, with one exception (and ironically enough, his name is Jake and he is Joseph's twin), artists and there are six of them.  I literally made myself sick of him.

I don't want to miss out on a thing Jake does artistically, and I know I'll be unable to appreciate any of it fully if I become obsessed with him like that.  So I don't read anything about him except what's posted here.  I don't Google his name or go to iheartjake to swoon over all his beautiful photos, because I know I would if I did.  I know I'm no hero for figuring this out, believe me - it comes only from past experience and the great pain I wrought on myself with it.

By the same token, I don't think you should beat yourself up over the way you feel.  Just let it ride.  I promise you, it will pass.  Eventually.  In the meantime, he is your muse and you've constructed some heart-wrenchingly beautiful poetic thoughts because of him.  As painful as it is, I know it is also ecstasy.  You are alive.  This is what being fully alive is for you.  When it's finally over for you, and I promise it will be, you may very well find you don't look back on this period as being a dark time in your life, but a time of awakening and growth.  JF, as I so often referred to him because it was painful to watch his name appear on my screen, showed me that there was something missing in my life.  He filled the void of that missing thing for a while.  When he couldn't any longer, I was left having to fill it myself.  But that wasn't such a terrible thing.  I see him as a ministering angel, as Annie would say - as something that cushioned the blow of the pain in my real life for a while until I was strong enough to bear it alone.

No more beans!

Offline newyearsday

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2006, 11:37:59 am »
Daniel, I haven't read all of the thread, and will give more attention to this later, but for now I send you a lot of light. Everyone one who reads this, you can help Daniel by visualizing loving, healing white light infusing his body and being. Just put your hugs into that form, and your wishes for him to feel more at peace. Also, Daniel, check your PMs ASAP.

Jenny
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Offline Daniel

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2006, 11:43:34 am »
Here's another hug from me, dear Daniel.  I understand completely what you're going through, because I went through the same thing after seeing Shakespeare in Love.  I was absolutely, over the moon, out of my mind, obsessed with Joseph Fiennes.  Like you feel, just writing or typing his name was ecstasy.  But it was pain, too.  I rented everything he had ever done.  I ordered his recording of Romeo and Juliet and listened to it every day in my car for two months, I think it was.  I could not get enough of his voice.  Looking at photos of him was actually painful.  I only put ones up in my office in which he was not looking at the camera, because to look into his eyes dead on was agonizing in a way only you can seem to so beautifully describe.  I wrote poetry and fanfic about him.  Every song I heard reminded me of him.  I played "In Your Eyes" by Peter Gabriel ad nauseum, thinking that it was in his eyes I could see the doorway of a thousand churches.  And all the while here I was (and still am) what I consider to be a happily married woman.  The only thing, I'm terribly sorry to say, that got me over it was time.  And a lot of it.  Really, more than that, I think I made myself almost hate him with too much familiarity.  I beat my own obsession with him into the ground.  Sad thing now is I can't watch anything he's done recently and enjoy it on *any* level.

I think knowing that, and starting to feel that exact same pull for Jake that I felt for him, I pulled back as quickly and resolutely as I could so as not to come to practically hate him someday like I have the other.  With Joseph Fiennes, I read every bit of information about him I could get my greedy little hands on.  I knew about all his conquests, girlfriends, live-in partners, break-ups.  All of it.  I watched every interview, every documentary (one has actually been made about the Fiennes family because they are all, with one exception (and ironically enough, his name is Jake and he is Joseph's twin), artists and there are six of them.  I literally made myself sick of him.

I don't want to miss out on a thing Jake does artistically, and I know I'll be unable to appreciate any of it fully if I become obsessed with him like that.  So I don't read anything about him except what's posted here.  I don't Google his name or go to iheartjake to swoon over all his beautiful photos, because I know I would if I did.  I know I'm no hero for figuring this out, believe me - it comes only from past experience and the great pain I wrought on myself with it.

By the same token, I don't think you should beat yourself up over the way you feel.  Just let it ride.  I promise you, it will pass.  Eventually.  In the meantime, he is your muse and you've constructed some heart-wrenchingly beautiful poetic thoughts because of him.  As painful as it is, I know it is also ecstasy.  You are alive.  This is what being fully alive is for you.  When it's finally over for you, and I promise it will be, you may very well find you don't look back on this period as being a dark time in your life, but a time of awakening and growth.  JF, as I so often referred to him because it was painful to watch his name appear on my screen, showed me that there was something missing in my life.  He filled the void of that missing thing for a while.  When he couldn't any longer, I was left having to fill it myself.  But that wasn't such a terrible thing.  I see him as a ministering angel, as Annie would say - as something that cushioned the blow of the pain in my real life for a while until I was strong enough to bear it alone.



Thank you. I'm beginning to think you're right... I admire your strength in your ability to resist the call of Gyllenhaalism. (Wow, that wasn't too bad, but I was writing it as a philosophy, not as a name, so maybe there's a difference.)

But I am wondering why it came back so suddenly and with so much force. I had gotten over it after about a month the last time, and then this happens and I wonder if I have gotten over it at all. It has been 3 months since I saw Brokeback Mountain but I am beginning to think on some subtle level that it really began long before that, with The Day After Tomorrow. Brokeback Mountain just blew it completely out of proportion with anything real in my life, particularly because I admired the film so much, I think. And then of course its easy to remember Donny Darko which my brother made me watch since he's weird and October Sky which my father made me watch since he's an engineer, but I don't think I had such an emotional response to them at the time I watched them. Most of the emotional depth I am experiencing in regards to those films is in hindsight.

Is it something I've done that caused this obsession to come back? Am I somehow at fault? I try not to think about things like that, but it often comes to me that if I hadn't done *such-n-such* I would not be in the agonizing experience that I am right now. Then I reply to myself, "Yes, that's true. But if I hadn't done *such-n-such* I would be a much lesser person right now."

So wait it out.... ride it out. Ain't no reins on this one.

If you can't fix it, you gotta stand it.

Can I stand it? I can try.

Why do we consume what we consume?
Why do we believe what we believe?
Why do we accept what we accept?
You have a body, a mind, and a soul.... You have a responsibility.

Offline Daniel

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2006, 11:50:21 am »
Daniel, I haven't read all of the thread, and will give more attention to this later, but for now I send you a lot of light. Everyone one who reads this, you can help Daniel by visualizing loving, healing white light infusing his body and being. Just put your hugs into that form, and your wishes for him to feel more at peace. Also, Daniel, check your PMs ASAP.

Jenny

Nothing's there yet... lol. How long does it take?
Why do we consume what we consume?
Why do we believe what we believe?
Why do we accept what we accept?
You have a body, a mind, and a soul.... You have a responsibility.

Offline ednbarby

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2006, 12:03:08 pm »
Of course, the irony in "If you can't fix it, you gotta stand it" from Brokeback's standpoint is that Ennis really *could have* fixed it, but his ingrained fears held him back.

In your case, I don't believe that it is something that can be fixed.  You're in love.  Unrequited love is still love just as much as love that is returned, after all.  In fact that much moreso in the exquisite particular pain of its unrequitedness.

You've heard of Vlad the Impaler?  I am Barb the Enabler.  Here, lemme pour you a good stiff drink while we're at it.  Take two - they're small.  (Very) seriously, I hope I don't sound like I'm inviting you to self-medicate by saying all you can do is ride it out.  Just the contrary - riding this out is like riding out coming off of heroin, I imagine.  It's just that I don't think you can fix love.  Time does heal - it's the only thing that does.  But I'll warn you (and you probably already know) - you'll never stop loving him.  Just like my real-life ultimately unrequited love - years later, when his name comes up in conversation with a mutual friend, it always makes me smile.  And stabs me in the heart at the same time.  Same, believe it or not, with JF.  The adoration I felt for him was every bit as real and potent as that I felt for JM (what's with all the friggin' Js, anyway?  Is there an alphaology, like numerology, at work, here???).  The only difference is I actually got to see and touch (for a while) the latter in the flesh.

I truly feel your pain, Daniel.  But I wouldn't trade these experiences I've had for never having known that pain.  Because I think I wouldn't really have lived as fully as I have.
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Offline Daniel

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2006, 12:10:19 pm »
The way you describe it, it sounds like it doesn't really heal at all, it just fades away over time...

That's what I thought had happened before, then it surged back. How do I know that if it fades away again it won't come back worse than it has before?

Not trying to be contentious, just curious.
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Offline scottf.

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2006, 12:52:46 pm »
Dear Daniel,

Here's my two cents, based on personal experience.

I've read your posts, and what your turning out right now, as far as your writing, is absolutely beautiful, stunning, heartfelt, and yearning. I KNOW it's coming from pain, but it doesn't make your writing--how you are interpreting what is happening to you--any less beautiful. Marvelous stuff. Hope that doesn't sound cold.

I was unhappily in love a few years ago. I'll spare the details. But what I did was pour my heart out into my journals, letters to friends, etc. It didn't FEEL like it was helping much at the time, but it DID help. And now I can look back on all that writing (I saved it all) and think, "Wow, what an experience. I'm glad I documented it." And document it I did. Every glance, every imagining, every dream, every conversation.

Keep pouring it out, Daniel. We're reading and comiserating.

Offline Daniel

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2006, 01:00:09 pm »
You know what I think would work...

He should record a message somewhere which says something like "Yeah, um. I don't like you. Don't ever want to hear from you again. Bye, forever." If I could just hear those words coming from his voice, I feel like I could get over it rather quickly.

Anyway, crazy ideas being thrown out.
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Offline newyearsday

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2006, 01:02:54 pm »
Daniel, I haven't read all of the thread, and will give more attention to this later, but for now I send you a lot of light. Everyone one who reads this, you can help Daniel by visualizing loving, healing white light infusing his body and being. Just put your hugs into that form, and your wishes for him to feel more at peace. Also, Daniel, check your PMs ASAP.

Jenny

Nothing's there yet... lol. How long does it take?

Sorry!! Check now, in two minutes! I got waylayed (sp?) in Signal. And, ditto what Barb said (as you know from previous conversations about this, I think. Still, more later. Now check PMs)
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Offline Daniel

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2006, 01:08:37 pm »
Cool, thanks.
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Offline ednbarby

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2006, 01:32:12 pm »
You know what I think would work...

He should record a message somewhere which says something like "Yeah, um. I don't like you. Don't ever want to hear from you again. Bye, forever." If I could just hear those words coming from his voice, I feel like I could get over it rather quickly.

Anyway, crazy ideas being thrown out.

Not crazy at all.  I think that's why I still feel so attached to that one unrequited love in my life - because he never did say those words.  The only thing that got me most of the way past all-consuming thoughts of him was when he finally did get serious with someone else, and I saw how he was with her in person and how so not like how he was with me that was.  But before he did that, the bastard had the nerve to tell me, after I'd met and had been dating my now husband for two months and was very happy in that relationship, that it "killed" him to think of me with another man.  Then he proceeded to look at me with puppy dog eyes every time I saw him socially thereafter for another year, until he started seeing his now wife.  I really think that had he just said to me when we broke up, "The truth is, I don't love you and I don't want you in my life," though it would have hurt like hell for a little while, it would have made him much easier to get over.  And yes, the trouble with loving these guys is that there isn't even the opportunity for that.  It's devastating.  Believe me, I know.

And I think Scott's right, too.  Keep writing, keep pouring it out.  And don't burn it when you're done with it.  And I do promise you again, you will be done with it.  I think it's just resurged because the DVD's coming out renewed everyone's fervor for this movie - naturally all that would affect you.  Same thing happened with me with Shakespeare in Love.  There was a month or so lapse where I actually was able to function quite nicely without obsessing over JF's every little move, thankyouverymuch.  Then the goddamned DVD came out, and I was right back at Square One.  Again, don't be too hard on yourself about that.
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Offline sparkle_motion

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2006, 01:35:52 pm »
Daniel, please don't feel embarrassed or apologize! You have no reason to apologize.
There are too many people that lack the capacity to love and you have that and it should be cherished. You should feel privileged, not embarrassed!
...then you ask me about Mexico and tell me you'll kill me for needing somethin' I don't hardly never get.

Offline Daniel

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2006, 01:41:37 pm »
Thank you both...

I do cherish the capacity to love, but I am ashamed about its direction. In fact I would almost prefer the terms "romantic obsession" to love because of that shame. Love is something which can be returned.

That being said, there is still a part of me that wants to call it love. *sighs in pain* But I think it is the idea that it can be returned from that particular direction which is ultimately the fictional aspect of it, the "dream-fantasy-reality".

I am not certain that I can stand this pain. I can try, but it interferes with so much of my capacity to live. I relish the feeling, but I have to try to avoid it in order to work and live as a normal human being.
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Offline ednbarby

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2006, 02:59:28 pm »
I agree - you do have to *try* to avoid it.  I hope what I've said hasn't come off as saying you should relish it by any means.  I just don't want for you to be too hard on yourself when you have tried and still find yourself slipping back into it from time to time.  That's to be expected.
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Offline Daniel

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2006, 02:10:30 am »
Hmm, it is the trying to avoid that I think I will have the most problem with. I mean, I'm under a huge impression (and perhaps this is what is possibly the most harmful aspect of this thing) that this feeling is somehow good. It is striving to resolve something, as I have mentioned earlier, and I am eager to allow the resolution to come to its end.

But thank you for your advice. I will try to apply what you have suggested.
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Offline Daniel

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2006, 04:48:53 am »
Tried to watch the BBM DVD tonight.

I got to the main menu before bursting into tears... lol. That music is pure melancholy, resonating with both beauty and pain. It's the most wonderful experience I can describe, though I'm not really doing a really good job of it.
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Offline Sheyne

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2006, 05:03:39 am »

Daniel.. *big hug*

I'm sorry you feel this pain right now, honey.  I really am.  I wish I could take it away. I wish I could do something to help you. But all I can give you is a willing ear to listen (eyes to read???) and to reassure you, as Barb already has too, that this feeling WILL pass.  They don't say that love is the most powerful emotion for nothin'.  Not even grief is as powerful as love..  And those are two things that only time can deal with.  Time.  Nothing you do - or DON'T do - is going to magically take it away.  You've been given some good advice from people who have experienced this first hand or understand the nature of it..  Definitely write your stuff down.  Hell, post your thoughts poured out on paper if you like - the type of stuff you've already written is pure and intense emotion and while it may not feel like its helping you... in the long run it will.  Everytime you share a little of what you're feeling, you're offloading the burden rather than suffer it all by yourself.  I admire your guts in sharing all this with us (you're talking to an Ennis with breasts here  :-X )...

Take care, buddy.  I'm sending you a big hug and lots of light, just like Jenny said.
Feel better.
Sheyne.
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Offline newyearsday

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2006, 09:17:32 pm »
Hey Daniel, how are you doing today? It's been a while since the thread was picked up again. I want to suggest some things now that I have had a chance to read the whole thread, but I feel like doing it in PM. So, I will do that now. If you see this soon, I would check them around 9:35 eastern daylight time.

Jenny
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Offline Daniel

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #35 on: April 15, 2006, 03:11:52 am »
Thanks for your suggestions, Jenny. I haven't had a chance to do any of them, but I think I'm going to print that out and take it to bed with me. Feels like a lot of that can be done with dreamwork.

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Why do we believe what we believe?
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Offline kirkmusic

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2006, 05:31:15 am »
Hi Daniel.  First off, much light being sent your way.  It's tough being in the throws of an obsession.  You're absolutely doing the right thing by making it creative.  I've found that when I'm down, writing a song about what I'm down about instantly makes me feel better about it.  What was debilitating and numbing becomes creative and productive.  It's a very effective part of healing.

I'm the kind of guy that likes to cut to the heart of things and sometimes that can come off as insensitive.  I apologize in advance if anything I say in this post comes out harsh.  That being said...

Let's start with a definition of love.  I have a profile up on a gay dating (okay, cruising) site, the last line of which states that I'm ideally looking for someone with "knowledge of themselves, what they want, and the difference between love and addiction."  The physical and emotional sensations we commonly refer to as "being in love," no matter how endearing and enjoyable, are a form of addiction.  The tightness of chest, the inability to think about other things, the incessant longing, the hairtrigger jealousy, are all symptoms of addiction.  "In love" narrows our focus to unhealthy extremes.  It makes you do things like, say, move to Padukah, KY to do dinner theatre and be with your lover when you were two auditions away from landing a lead on Broadway.  It limits us.

In contrast, true love expands one's self.  Love encourages freedom.  Where "in love" shuts you down, love opens you up.

I was addicted to a great guy some 5 years ago.  We went on a couple of dates and things were fine.  Then he did a complete 180 and never gave me a reason why.  Months later I asked him if we could make an agreement between the two of us that we would never be together so that I could get the idea out of my head and stop thinking about it.  To my surprise he didn't want to make that agreement, but still didn't want to date me either.  So I had to get over it on my own.  Actions speak louder than words, and his actions told me it was hopeless.  He's seeing someone else now and the three of us are friends and movie buddies.  But the whole year I was stuck on him I kept asking "Why am I doing this to myself?!?!?  I know this isn't going to work out!  This is stupid!"  When I was really able to take a look at it I figured out that I really didn't want to be with anyone at the time, and a great way to stay single is by falling for someone you can't have.  If I had figured that out sooner I could have thanked my addiction for helping me out and been done with it.  That was the last lesson I hope I ever have to learn about addiction.

Again in contrast, my love for my last boyfriend was like a balloon in my chest.  In that relationship I learned the kind of faith, devotion and commitment I was capable of.  I learned what it was like to have a true partner, and to be one.  Starting and ending the day with him made it easier to approach everything in my life from a position of love.  We encouraged each other to be our best.  My spirit expanded incredibly in that year and 1/2.  And it sure hurt like hell when we broke up and that wasn't there anymore, and it took awhile for me to adjust to the fact that he wasn't going to be the love of my life.  That was a real loss that I had to get over.

My point is I don't think these feelings for Jake are love, I think they're addiction.  I don't know what purpose it's fulfilling for you, but I would suggest examining what it could be, accepting these feelings for what they are and appreciating them for that and nothing more.  They are serving you somehow, and the sooner you know in what way that is, the easier it will be to let them go when the time comes that you no longer need them i.e. when they're no longer serving but damaging you.

It's also important to practice love with yourself while you're going through this.  I have a hard time with this part.  Even when you're at you're lowest, know that there's nothing wrong with you as a person.  You're just on your path.  Be gentle.  You're right where you're supposed to be right now.  Give yourself the same understanding you'd give someone else.

I think I've expressed all of this better elsewhere but I hope it made sense here.  Good luck and all the love in the world to you.

Kirk

Offline newyearsday

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2006, 11:02:44 am »
Wow, Kirk,

Thanks for such a beautiful and wise post. As someone who has also had some unattainable obsessions before, I can say that every word you wrote rings with truth, compassion, and wisdom. Although people have said things like that before, nowhere have I seen it all come together in such a complete way. Wish I'd had this to read about 10 years ago.

Thank you again, for sharing it all so clearly and freely.

Jenny
« Last Edit: April 15, 2006, 09:19:52 pm by newyearsday »
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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2006, 01:27:13 pm »
Kirk that was a beautifully touching and insightful post...absolutely nothing harsh there just truth shared from experience

Offline Daniel

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Re: It's back.... with a vengeance.
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2006, 03:25:48 am »
Thank you for that insightful post, Kirk. I agree with you (partly, allow me to explain).

I have had similar obsessions in the past, and I admit that it is one of the most difficult things to break free of an addiction to anything (be it a person, or some other event/item/process which one has grown comfortable with), but what is so unusual about this particular experience is the internal division I am experiencing because of it. There is a part of me that wants to have the experience and insists on calling it something, which exists side by side with another part of me that insists on saying that it is not that something. In other words, I am continually beset, in addition to the physical experiences of addiction, by an internal debate.

It is this division of the self that leads the more logical part of my mind to formally recognize it as an obsession and not love. At the same time, however, I significantly recognize that love is far more important than being "in love" as you have said. That it is an active and productive aspect of my personal consciousness, and not simply some experience which we can or should yearn for.

Ultimately, being "in love" I think is very selfish, because it relishes and enjoys the experience without regard for much else either as a part of the self or in some other person. But that being said, I also agree with you when you say that there is something which this particular experience is attempting to resolve. With the aid of your post (and I hope I am not sounding too mystical or vague here), I am beginning to recognize that the experience of being "in love" - to the particular extremes I am experiencing - is a call to love, purely and actively, without yearning for some experience of being "in love". Can it be possible that I am experiencing this pain and agony and emotional ecstasy in some type of resistance against the very effects themselves? I am being called to extend myself outward in a measure of active love, to extend my consciousness and my devotion to the universe at large?

Perhaps so. I have posted that it is heavenly to breathe in and a hellish experience to breathe out, and as of late, (though the extent of the experience has varied greatly) it continues to be so. Except that, through some of the methods that Jenny has pointed out to me, I have significantly reduced that particular pain, and I believe, now, as a result of much of your assistance here on this board, that this pain will leave entirely and that I will then be able to give away the most beautiful of experience and allow it to fade in my own life because I will be actively attempting to give it to others. Does that make much sense? I doubt it?

To breathe in is to take from the universe. To breathe out is to give back to it. Why should the pain be mostly associated with giving back: some selfishness or jealousy that insists upon holding back what it believes should be maintained? I was insistent on receiving some love, some entendre of consciousness, some devotion of will, and without any rightful sense for doing so. That is what caused the pain in breathing outward. I would not give back until I had received.

But thanks to your post, and to what I am currently reading in Enchanted Love: The Mystic Power of Intimate Relationships, I believe that I am prepared to productively love, to creatively love, to give of myself without expecting anything in return, to actively love, rather than to "yearn for love in all its ecstasy". Ecstasy can never be experienced, in my humble opinion, in any truly spiritual sense because we wish to experience it. Ecstasy is only the true result of an existential state of giving and receiving in response to that gift (whether it be of love, consciousness, or will).

This thought, above all others, has eased the pain from breathing and the continual state of pain in the chest. The thrilling highs, the purest peaks of devotional ambiguity which I had so recently attributed to the highest state of my being, I have learned to release to the Universe: to be the cause of that experience in others, if possible.

Once again, though, I feel that I have you all to thank, for sending me your light, your healing attention, and I hope that I can maintain the lesson that I have learned from this experience ever forward in my mind. 

Hi Daniel.  First off, much light being sent your way.  It's tough being in the throws of an obsession.  You're absolutely doing the right thing by making it creative.  I've found that when I'm down, writing a song about what I'm down about instantly makes me feel better about it.  What was debilitating and numbing becomes creative and productive.  It's a very effective part of healing.

I'm the kind of guy that likes to cut to the heart of things and sometimes that can come off as insensitive.  I apologize in advance if anything I say in this post comes out harsh.  That being said...

Let's start with a definition of love.  I have a profile up on a gay dating (okay, cruising) site, the last line of which states that I'm ideally looking for someone with "knowledge of themselves, what they want, and the difference between love and addiction."  The physical and emotional sensations we commonly refer to as "being in love," no matter how endearing and enjoyable, are a form of addiction.  The tightness of chest, the inability to think about other things, the incessant longing, the hairtrigger jealousy, are all symptoms of addiction.  "In love" narrows our focus to unhealthy extremes.  It makes you do things like, say, move to Padukah, KY to do dinner theatre and be with your lover when you were two auditions away from landing a lead on Broadway.  It limits us.

In contrast, true love expands one's self.  Love encourages freedom.  Where "in love" shuts you down, love opens you up.

I was addicted to a great guy some 5 years ago.  We went on a couple of dates and things were fine.  Then he did a complete 180 and never gave me a reason why.  Months later I asked him if we could make an agreement between the two of us that we would never be together so that I could get the idea out of my head and stop thinking about it.  To my surprise he didn't want to make that agreement, but still didn't want to date me either.  So I had to get over it on my own.  Actions speak louder than words, and his actions told me it was hopeless.  He's seeing someone else now and the three of us are friends and movie buddies.  But the whole year I was stuck on him I kept asking "Why am I doing this to myself?!?!?  I know this isn't going to work out!  This is stupid!"  When I was really able to take a look at it I figured out that I really didn't want to be with anyone at the time, and a great way to stay single is by falling for someone you can't have.  If I had figured that out sooner I could have thanked my addiction for helping me out and been done with it.  That was the last lesson I hope I ever have to learn about addiction.

Again in contrast, my love for my last boyfriend was like a balloon in my chest.  In that relationship I learned the kind of faith, devotion and commitment I was capable of.  I learned what it was like to have a true partner, and to be one.  Starting and ending the day with him made it easier to approach everything in my life from a position of love.  We encouraged each other to be our best.  My spirit expanded incredibly in that year and 1/2.  And it sure hurt like hell when we broke up and that wasn't there anymore, and it took awhile for me to adjust to the fact that he wasn't going to be the love of my life.  That was a real loss that I had to get over.

My point is I don't think these feelings for Jake are love, I think they're addiction.  I don't know what purpose it's fulfilling for you, but I would suggest examining what it could be, accepting these feelings for what they are and appreciating them for that and nothing more.  They are serving you somehow, and the sooner you know in what way that is, the easier it will be to let them go when the time comes that you no longer need them i.e. when they're no longer serving but damaging you.

It's also important to practice love with yourself while you're going through this.  I have a hard time with this part.  Even when you're at you're lowest, know that there's nothing wrong with you as a person.  You're just on your path.  Be gentle.  You're right where you're supposed to be right now.  Give yourself the same understanding you'd give someone else.

I think I've expressed all of this better elsewhere but I hope it made sense here.  Good luck and all the love in the world to you.

Kirk
« Last Edit: April 16, 2006, 03:33:50 am by Daniel »
Why do we consume what we consume?
Why do we believe what we believe?
Why do we accept what we accept?
You have a body, a mind, and a soul.... You have a responsibility.