Author Topic: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis  (Read 14468 times)

Offline jakefan

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The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« on: January 15, 2007, 01:04:51 pm »
After watching the movie over twenty times, I still can't figure something out.  Go figure  :).  I apologize in advance if this has been asked before (and if it has, please point me in the right direction), but I was wondering about the scene with Jack and Ennis right after they have introduced themselves to each other.  Why does Ennis walk behind Jack on the way to the bar?  I don't understand why he is doing that and why would Jack let him walk behind him.  I know Ennis is not very socialable and he's a loner, but still why not walk beside him.  I would like to hear what you guys think.

Scott6373

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2007, 01:25:05 pm »
It's fairly characteristic of each man's personality.  Jack was the dreamer, the adventurer, and Ennis was the withdrawn, frightened and easily intimidated one.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2007, 01:41:30 pm »
Well, Jack is leading the way--as he does when he takes the initiative that first time in the tent.

Mundanely, maybe it just filmed better that way. We can see both of them, whereas if they had been walking side by side we couldn't have--not the way the sequence was shot.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2007, 01:50:18 pm »
Mundanely, maybe it just filmed better that way. We can see both of them, whereas if they had been walking side by side we couldn't have--not the way the sequence was shot.

And it makes such a great sequence. I just love to watch them walking so synchronously.

Offline jakefan

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2007, 06:51:40 pm »
I never thought of it that way.  I just thought of something: maybe it was just another way of showing us that Jack is a step ahead of Ennis.

Offline SFEnnisSF

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2007, 07:17:38 pm »
maybe it was just another way of showing us that Jack is a step ahead of Ennis.

Good observation! 

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2007, 07:18:34 pm »
Jack is a step ahead of Ennis.

Nice way of putting it! I like that!  :D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Lumière

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2007, 07:19:48 pm »
Maybe it could also be interpreted literally as Ennis keeping his distance.  Simple as that.  He just met Jack, doesn't trust him, not sure how to handle him and prefers to watch him from a distance - keeping Jack outside his comfort zone.  As they proceed to sit in the bar, when Jack starts going off about Aguirre and the lightning-struck sheep, Ennis makes a face, unable to hide his discomfort. 

And like Jeff said, it films great!  ;)


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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2007, 08:47:24 pm »
After watching the movie over twenty times, I still can't figure something out.  Go figure  :).  I apologize in advance if this has been asked before (and if it has, please point me in the right direction), but I was wondering about the scene with Jack and Ennis right after they have introduced themselves to each other.  Why does Ennis walk behind Jack on the way to the bar?  I don't understand why he is doing that and why would Jack let him walk behind him.  I know Ennis is not very socialable and he's a loner, but still why not walk beside him.  I would like to hear what you guys think.

Say, how's it going Jake fan:-

Jake, in my opinion, is a leader - looks like this throughout most of the movie.  He is constantly riding his horse in front of Ennis.  Takes the the first major step in the first tent scene. Drives for more than 15 hours from Texas 3 or 4 times a year to see Ennis.
I'm not sure if this is convincing enough for you.  Perhaps other members may have other opinions or add to mine.

Pierre -  ;)

Offline nakymaton

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2007, 11:34:41 pm »
Maybe it could also be interpreted literally as Ennis keeping his distance.  Simple as that.  He just met Jack, doesn't trust him, not sure how to handle him and prefers to watch him from a distance - keeping Jack outside his comfort zone.

And yet their steps are completely in synch.  8) Ennis is keeping his distance, but he naturally falls into step with Jack regardless.
Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

Offline Lumière

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2007, 11:39:03 pm »
And yet their steps are completely in synch.  8) Ennis is keeping his distance, but he naturally falls into step with Jack regardless.

Good point there, Mel!   :D


Offline Ellemeno

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2007, 11:47:31 pm »
Toast's rendition of this beautiful moment:


Offline Toast

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2007, 12:34:43 am »
Thanks Ellemeno for posting the pic
I think it fits here.

Remember Jakefan that it was Jack who decided that drinking together was their occupation for the morning after Aguirre hired them.  In the movie trailer Jack says the line that "Well as long as we're going to be working together, then we may as well start drinking together."

  In the screenplay Jack tells the bar staff - who try and keep them out of the bar - that "Me and my partner here, we got us a summer's worth a drinkin' to do today. Reckon we're gonna need that extra hour."
As they drink in the screenplay we see that Ennis is ...   oh my why not read it yourselves:


JACK Nice to know you, Ennis Del Mar.  Since we're gonna be working together, I reckon it's time we start drinking together.
ENNIS looks at the watch AGUIRRE gave him: WE SEE it's eight thirty. ENNIS nods to JACK.

8 INT: EAR: MORNING:
The barroom is large and cavernous. All the chairs are stacked upside-down on the tables. It's empty except for a BARTENDER and WAITRESS, both middle-aged. The husky BARTENDER stands behind the bar and stocks bottled beer into the cooler. The skinny, middle-aged WAITRESS cleans ashtrays in a sink. ENNIS and JACK enter the dingy bar. Sunlight bursts into the dimly lit room, startling the BARTENDER and the WAITRESS.
ENNIS and JACK wait a moment for their eyes to adjust to the darkness.
BARTENDER (annoyed) We ain't open 'til ten.
JACK (friendly) Me and my partner here, we got us a summer's worth a drinkin' to do today. Reckon we're gonna need that extra hour.
BARTENDER (repeats) Told you...we open at ten.
The WAITRESS glares at the BARTENDER.
WAITRESS Aw, lay off 'em, Royce.  They're just buttons.
ROYCE shrugs.
WAITRESS (cont'd—friendly, too) you boys have a seat.
JACK and ENNIS take their seats at the bar. ENNIS lights up a smoke.
The WAITRESS finishes drying an ashtray on her apron, Places it in front of ENNIS.
WAITRESS Now then, what'll you have?
JACK Bud, please.
ENNIS Bud.

9 INT: BAR: DAY (LATER):
ENNIS and JACK still sit at the bar, each nurses a Longneck. ENNIS peels the label from his bottle. A few empties sit in front of JACK.
JACK My second year up here.  Last year one storm the lightning kill 42 sheep. (shakes his head) Thought I'd asphyxiate from the smell, We need to take plenty of whiskey, for when the lightning starts. (drinks)
The WAITRESS arrives.  Frowns, looks pointedly at ENNIS'S bottle, still half-full.
WAITRESS (to ENNIS) You drinkin' that beer, or was you plannin' a grow flowers in it?
ENNIS looks embarrassed, is about to say something, but JACK speaks first.
JACK (to WAITRESS) Tell you what, ma'am, you just keep linin' 'em up.
WAITRESS smiles.  Walks off.
ENNIS (in a low voice) I ain't got but a buck and some change.
JACK You drink up.  I'll worry 'bout the tab.
ENNIS chug their beers, slam the bottles on the bar. returns with two opened beers.
WAITRESS That's more like it.
WAITRESS gives each boy his fresh beer.  Gathers the empties, and leaves.
ENNIS What was you sayin' 'bout lightnin'?
JACK It smoked some sheep. Aguirre got all over my ass like I was supposed to control the weather. (drinks) Beats working for my old man. Can't please my old man, no way.  That's why I took to rodeoin!.
(proudly knocks his rodeo belt buckle) Ever rodeo?
ENNIS (reserved) Once in a while, when I can afford the entry fees.
JACK You from ranching people?
ENNIS I was.
JACK Folks run you off?
ENNIS (stiff) No. They run themselves off. One curve in the road in 43 miles, and they miss it.  Killed them both. (drinks) Bank took the ranch. Brother and sister raised me, mostly.
JACK Shit. That's hard. (yells to waitress) Two shots of whiskey, right quick.
   ------------------ This is from the 2003 screenplay.

I love that scene.
I think you see Jack being the leader and Ennis being the shy, economical guy - who can't believe that someone is treating him as an equal. 

Annie Proulx wrote the scene lik this:
They found a bar and drank beer through the afternoon, Jack telling Ennis about a lightning storm on the mountain the year before that killed forty-two sheep, the peculiar stink of them and the way they bloated, the need for plenty of whiskey up there.


About Ennis following and not leading Jakefan:
Later after the sheep have been mixed and sorted a bit, Jack and Ennis ride parallel as Ennis jokes about the harmonica scaring off the sheep again.  There we see the progress that the guys have made, now they are equal partners.   Ennis starts off almost as a beast of burden, expecting to work quietyly and to follow orders.   Jack brings out his "teamness". 

« Last Edit: January 16, 2007, 12:50:41 am by Toast »

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2007, 12:35:15 am »
This is a really interesting topic.  I love the beginning of the movie and this early bar scene.  So full of interesting innuendoes.   I agree whole-heartedly with earlier comments that this is one of the first instances where we're really aware that Jack is in the lead.  It's also the first visualization of what Jack refers to much later as his short leash.  So, this image can probably be read at least two ways.  Probably the absolute first moment of Jack taking the lead is when he is the first to introduce himself.  The first of the pair to break the silence that characterizes the opening sequences of the film.  And, Jack's lead is fairly consistently depicted in the film (even in one of the special features in the current version of the DVD, we see a "making of" moment when someone in the filiming crew yells that Jack should be a bit ahead in one of the shots when the boys are heading up the mountain with the sheep).  Jack's the one that leads the herd (Ennis is in the rear with all the mules and the supplies).  And, of course he's the one in the lead romantically too.  He makes the first move physically.  He takes his shirt off first while Ennis is still in shirt sleeves.  Etc.  This metaphor or issue of Jack in the lead can be extended to many aspects of the film.  Even to emotional issues... did Jack accept his sexuality long before Ennis did?  

Back to the early bar scene with Jack and Ennis... I know this has come up in other threads, but I want to re-emphasize how interesting the background props are in this scene.  For anyone new to the film... notice what's shown behind Ennis's hat... behind Jack's hat.  Amazing!
 ;) :D
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Offline Cameron

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2007, 12:41:28 am »


Back to the early bar scene with Jack and Ennis... I know this has come up in other threads, but I want to re-emphasize how interesting the background props are in this scene.  For anyone new to the film... notice what's shown behind Ennis's hat... behind Jack's hat.  Amazing!
 ;) :D

Hi,

I haven't noticed that yet, I have been trying real hard to notice every little detail but I guess I am still focuss on the boys amazing faces.

Are there pictures of this?

I guess I'll have to watch again tomorrow. To late now.



Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2007, 12:46:47 am »
Hey marlb42!  Yeah, I'd say just watch the beginning again (not such a hardship  ;) ).  The little details in this film are astonishing.  Background details and things that seem somewhat mundane at first take on incredible significance the more you think about the film as a whole and about the way ideas and symbols re-emerge throughout the story.  I like to think that Brokeback is about the poetry that can be found in everyday things... the poetry of the mundane.  I think this applies equally well to both the film and the story.   I think it's fun to discover some of this on one's own so I won't go into the details of my own interpretations too much here yet.  I'd love to just hear what you think when you look for these little details.

p.s.  Have you found the threads yet about the hat colors?  I'll bump it.
 :)
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Offline Cameron

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2007, 12:55:26 am »
Hi,

No I haven't seen that thread yet, I will definitly read it and watch again tomorrow to look at the bar scene more closely.  I have watched the whole opening part and mountain scenes many times already, yes i am totally astounded at how many new things there are to see each time, and yet there is so much I haven't seen or noticed yet.  it is all amazing!!!!

I will look more closely and read that thread, I do have a lot to learn!!



Offline Toast

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2007, 01:24:55 am »
About the bar scene and what's behind the hats:



notice what's shown behind Ennis's hat... behind Jack's hat.  Amazing!
 ;) :D

What should I see:
the skull or the dartbaoard for Ennis?
and farm inplements for Jack?

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2007, 01:56:28 am »
Toastie, could you poastie your alternating glances version of the above shot?  :)  It's so great.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2007, 03:11:53 am »
Heya,

I like the shot you have here Toast because you can see my favorite detail behind Ennis's head in this particular shot.  It's hard to notice sometimes when the film is in motion bacause they keep moving their heads around and obstructing different things.  And, this shot also happens to be a strong example of what's going on behind Jack too (this one is maybe more subtle).  The dart board behind Ennis I think is just amazing... the fact that the darts are all pointed as if they've come from Jack's direction.  There was an old discussion about the very early and super subtle moments of flirtation here (Ennis being willing to even ask to borrow the lighter... and then the spark from the lighter being important perhaps as a metphor for their chemistry... the electricity between them that comes up again, "Ennis as night fire", etc.).  Anyway, the idea here for me is that the darts are like cowboy versions of cupid's arrows... indicating the early moments of attraction.  I know there are others among us who get very excited about that skull and the ropes.   And for Jack, well, it's that he's sitting in a ray of sunshine.  Again, these background details seem to all be super subtle indications of the beginnings of attraction.  If we see the scene through Ennis's point of view (and since he's positioned as the protagonist, this seems to be logical) then Jack as the object of attraction (even if subconscious or just-barely-developing at this stage) is idealized... and therefore the "sitting in a ray of sunshine" idea.  The idea that when one first develops a crush the object of attraction is idealized.

Well, there's so much going on in terms of props in even this one shot that there's a ton that can be said, I'm sure.  And, Elle, you're right, multiple angles of this scene make a big difference.  I didn't even notice the dart board in the film for a very long time.  Ennis's hat covers it for much of the time when this scene is in motion.

 :-*
« Last Edit: January 16, 2007, 03:21:40 am by atz75 »
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Offline Toast

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2007, 10:33:36 am »
How is this for flirting??



Back to your topic, Jakefan
your question was about Ennis following Jack
and about Jack being willing to take the lead.

I just studied the scene of Jack and Ennis walking on the sidewalk, and in answer to "and why would Jack let him walk behind him."
Actually if you watch carefully you will see that Jack stays on the inside (their left) of the sidewalk with enough room for Ennis to walk beside him.
Ennis stays on the right side of the sidewalk but a couple of steps behing Jack,
As they get to the overhanging roof in front of the bar, Ennis actually steps into the street - maybe to get a wider view of the unfamiliar territory coming up.
Ennis really presents himself as the subordinate person in that scene.  (or maybe sizing up his new buddy - lol)

« Last Edit: January 16, 2007, 03:00:04 pm by Toast »

Offline serious crayons

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2007, 02:28:45 pm »
How is this for flirting??

Amazing. Toast, you are the master of visual effects.

Offline jakefan

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2007, 06:35:06 pm »
First off, I am doing fine.  Thank you for asking Pierre.  How are you?  This is amazing.  Of course, I have to watch this scene again because my mind is going a mile a minute.  I never noticed that Jack walks on the left side of the sidewalk and Ennis is on the right side and that they are walking in sync (why would I think otherwise  :)).  I completely missed what was behind their heads in this scene.  Wow...I feel like I have missed a bunch of details.  Toast, I completely forgot about what is written in the screenplay.  Thank you for posting it for me.  I just thought that maybe this scene is to show how their relationship has evolved from then to when they are on the mountain.  First, Ennis is a step behind Jack, then he is riding beside him (like Toast said), and then, he finally takes the lead at the Reunion Scene.

Offline Cameron

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2007, 06:43:12 pm »
How is this for flirting??



Wow, how does the picture move like that"

I have a question, do their elbows touch at all at the bar when Ennis gets the lighter, it sort of looked to me like they do.

Or am I mistaken?

If not, another early sign..
Another early sign



Offline jakefan

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2007, 06:48:12 pm »
I'm not sure.  If not, they are pretty close.  Good observation.

Offline Toast

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2007, 06:51:04 pm »
This is a very thought provoking question from jakefan.

I didn't make the connection that Ennis was the one who set the tone when he stood at the top of the stairs and said "Jack fuckin' Twist" and proceeded to grab Jack (who was so receptive), knocked his hat off and gave him the kiss of his life.  (I knew it happened that way, but I didnt compare it to the leader/led from 4 years earlier.)

Now I want to check out the elbows for marlb42 (and me too, of course.)

Xcellent thread guys and gals.

Offline Lynne

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2007, 07:00:42 pm »
Welcome, jakefan and marlb42!

This is a terrific thread!  All this time, and I haven't EVER thought about the dartboard or the ray of sunshine - thanks Amanda!  And I *LOVE* the newbies who are getting these conversations going again!  YEE-HAW!

 :-*
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Offline jakefan

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2007, 07:05:04 pm »
Thank you for your comments Toast and Lynne.  I'm trying not to get up from the computer to watch the scene again  :).

Offline Toast

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2007, 07:53:56 pm »
I agree with you jakefan - we are torn between the computer and the video - and trying not to forget that we have a real life away from Jack and Ennis, too.


And marlb42:  I have six images that I think answer the elbow question:

In frame 2 Jack moves his elbow further in on the bar and toward Ennis a bit.
In frames 3 and 4 Ennis (first) and then Jack have moved their elbows away from the other guy.
In frame 5 Ennis has taken his elbow and arm off the bar.
When Jack passes the lighter, he retracts his elbow away from Ennis.

The elbows do NOT touch.
Nieither do the fingers when they pass the lighter.

next?  -  lol
« Last Edit: January 16, 2007, 07:58:15 pm by Toast »

Offline Cameron

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2007, 08:08:03 pm »
Wow, all that work to answer my question!!!!!

oh well, but in  1 and 2 they do look awfully close!!!!

Thanks :)




Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2007, 10:22:25 pm »
Heya Toast,

Thanks for the awesome visual aides.  Hey, in your first motion-filled post, I love what's going on with the boys' hands on the beer bottles as they look back and forth.  It is at the very least... very flirty.
 :o
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline serious crayons

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2007, 03:14:53 am »
I love what's going on with the boys' hands on the beer bottles as they look back and forth.  It is at the very least... very flirty.

Oooooh! Good catch, Amanda!

Offline Toast

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2007, 04:56:19 pm »
Yes atz75,
I am surprised to see Ennis and Jack making reciprocal signals with their longneck bottles.
Ennis is ready to be the top
and Jack is ready to be the bottom, then and there.  - OOps.

Have another look:


I just love how Ennis' forefinger peeps above the longneck
and Jack seems to accept the offer. 
No interpretation required.
But of course, each guy only makes the offer/acceptance when he knows NOONE is looking at his bottle.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2008, 06:01:51 pm »
Yes atz75,
I am surprised to see Ennis and Jack making reciprocal signals with their longneck bottles.
Ennis is ready to be the top
and Jack is ready to be the bottom, then and there.  - OOps.

Have another look:


I just love how Ennis' forefinger peeps above the longneck
and Jack seems to accept the offer. 
No interpretation required.
But of course, each guy only makes the offer/acceptance when he knows NOONE is looking at his bottle.
Toast, this still cracks me up, after all this time!!
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: The Bar Scene with Jack and Ennis
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2008, 12:02:36 am »
Heya Sister Mod!  Thanks for reviving this great old thread.  I love this bar scene.  I think it's packed with meaning.  It's reminds me of Lureen's desk(s), Aguirre's office, and even the cooking utensils that we've been discussing in various threads lately.  The background is so cluttered with important details, that I think it's really fun to pick through all these details... and it's much easier with these still images and visual aides. 

I'm sure it's mentioned here somewhere already, but I love how the darts behind Ennis's head (the one's I personally like to think of as "cupid's darts") echo the knives that are so prominently featured at the end of the film during Ennis's conversation about Kurt with Junior in his trailer.  The darts and the knives are in approximately the same position behind Ennis in each case.  In the case of these darts, I like that they're positioned on a door... or a place of transition.  Since this is a major turning point/ opportunity for Ennis here at the beginning of his relationship with Jack.

I also wonder a lot about that cow's skull and the rope that are behind and to the left of Ennis in this bar scene.  I think of that skull as an ominous sign of all the worries/fears/dark-memories that Ennis carries with him (a sign of complexities to come).  But, now I'm wondering what people make of the walking stick or cane that appears to be hung over one of the cow's horns?

In terms of significant things behind Jack in this bar scene... the only thing that keeps striking me is the "ray of sunshine" that he's sitting in.  I think of the phrase "sitting on a ray of sunshine" as an expression related to one person falling in love with or becoming smitten with a new "beloved."  So, in a way I wonder if this ray of sunshine and the darts are meant to be subtle clues that Ennis really is already falling for Jack (this coupled with his willingness to talk a little bit with him... and to even ask to borrow the lighter).

Can anyone tell what the objects are further beyond the door with the darts towards the back of the room?  I can't really tell what some of those objects on the wall are.

This body language really is amazing in slow motion.

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie