Author Topic: Question About the Lake Scene  (Read 11206 times)

Offline fernly

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Re: Question About the Lake Scene
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2007, 11:46:40 pm »
I wonder about the timing. Guess I'm influenced by the story that has the "miss you so much" conversation happening on the third day of their trip, and the trailhead conversation "a day or two later". Seems like I remember another thread that questioned that vagueness of time, when so much other time in the story is specific.
If there was at least one more day between those two conversations, would that make any difference in interpreting Jack's attitude while he's waiting for Ennis to tell him what's on his mind?

I agree, Casey, that Jack wasn't surprised that Ennis was keeping something from him, and probably wasn't surprised by what it was, but having his suspicions confirmed was no less painful for being expected. I wonder how many other times in recent years Ennis had done this same thing.



on the mountain flying in the euphoric, bitter air

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Question About the Lake Scene
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2007, 02:29:29 am »
I think he was upset with E. telling him about Cassie, but again I think Jack didn't really notice what Ennis was saying to him.  I don't think he heard Ennis's little mumble and "I don't know" after saying '  I have been putting the blocks on ...." 

Good point. Ennis' description of Cassie sounds so desultory and unenthusiastic that it's obvious to US that he's saying he isn't very excited about the relationship. But Jack is probably so frustrated that Ennis is still bothering to have relationships with women at all that he doesn't notice this nuance. It's interesting that just after this Ennis sees it's time to give up the charade, too.

Offline Kazza

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Re: Question About the Lake Scene
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2007, 12:55:20 pm »
My take on what I refer to as "the joint passing scene", Jack has told Ennis this story about the ranch forman's wife and all, then he says "The truth is..." and after a pregnant pause where he probably thinks better of telling the intended truth, he tells Ennis he misses his so much he can hardly stand it. Then the next day in the parking lot, he does seem to expect something to happen, some relevation, in the story "this said and unsaid".

Wow, I love the way that we all see something different in even the smallest nuanes of this film.

In this scene my feeling is that Jack has no intention of telling Ennis about Randall (or whoever else he might have been seeing). I think that when Jack begins "The truth is..." he intends to finish the sentence with a more heartfelt expression of his feelings, or a resurection of his belief that they can have a life together. However, knowing Ennis (and his skittishness) Jack tones it down to "... I miss you so much I can hardly stand it" (which is still a pretty strong declartion).

Just my ha-penny's worth.

Karen

Offline southendmd

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Re: Question About the Lake Scene
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2007, 01:49:17 pm »
This discussion reminds me of CaseyCornelius' "Ennis' Maledictions" thread on IMDb.  I wonder if that one got saved over here.

Anyway, I always thought it interesting that Jack and Ennis can easily talk about women:  in fact, it's Jack who starts it when he says "all this time you ain't found noone else to marry"--->Ennis mentions Cassie --->Jack lies about the ranch foreman's wife. 

To me, that's their "pact":  "We ain't queer." 

When Jack reveals "the truth is...sometimes I miss you so much, I can hardly stand it", that statement is awfully close to "I love you", and therefore unacceptable.  Ennis sort of cowers in response. 

I always wondered if Ennis felt too threatened by this, and "made up" the story about August. 

Jack certainly looked dejected that next morning.  Is he expecting yet another rejection from Ennis? 

Then, the whole Mexico thing, confirming Jack is queer.  Which means Ennis is queer.  Their pact is broken.  Ennis makes his threat, then the pathetic "it's cuz of you I'm like this". 

Ending with the "can't stand this anymore, Jack".  Coming from the man who originally said "if you can't fix it, you gotta stand it".

Can't fix it.  Can't stand it. 

This scene always gets me. 

Offline mouk

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Re: Question About the Lake Scene
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2007, 02:00:35 pm »
Shakes Friend, hi  :)

Yet a slightly different take. I think Jack was tempted to tell the truth when he hesitated for a split second after "I kinda gotta thing goin with a" and  "ranch foreman's wife" but then decided against it.

However, he wants Ennis to know that this affair is of no importance to him. 'The truth is' conveys that: ok I am lying to you about this affair, but the truth is that it does not count, that you are the only one. And his long silence after 'the truth is', in my opinion, could be because  he knows that Ennis freaks when Jack tries to speak about feelings, and/or also because it is difficult for him to express feeling that are so strong, deep and painful that they  put a huge knot in his throat

Scott6373

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Re: Question About the Lake Scene
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2007, 02:10:48 pm »
The fact that they can sit there and discuss sexual escapades with women and not (apparently) show jealousy, yet when E finds out about Mexico, he flips out...that speaks volumes.

Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Question About the Lake Scene
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2007, 02:17:37 pm »
I'm with Fern in that the "Sometime I miss.."was the second or third day iof their trip not the last. I think Jack knew Ennis well enough that he really didn't expect and answer from Ennis and was not hurt by his lack of response. The long faces on the final day were because of thier parting. As the screen play reads "Mood between then is tense, as always when their time together is about to end."

I think Jack meant wife. He would not have been the one to start anything but women found him an attractive man, nothing much between him and Lureen anymore...  No I don't think it was Leshaun.

Below As I wrote then in 'Photo captions'



Damn that Twist...was just about ta tell him couldn't make August...an he goes tellin' how bad he misses me. Guess Ah 's just have ta wait till later...hate ta tell 'm at all. Don't he knows how much Ah miss him? ...Nothin' Ah'd like better than ta be with 'm all the time like we's up here...but...just can't be so...



Some folks thought I was disappointed at Ennis fer not sayin' nothin' after I told how much I miss him. Didn't expect him ta say anything, just wanted ta let 'm know is all. No one ever saw what went on next. Could tell Ennis had somethin' on his mind though, just staring straight ahead, found out later it was that he couldn't make August, couldn't tell me just then, knew that'd  make me upset. He was right 'bout that. Never had no doubts how Ennis felt 'bout me, know how hard it was fer him ta untangle himself and walk inta the tent that night so long ago back at Brokeback, went against everthin' he knew. Still not easy fer him, I know what it means that he sees me whenever he can..

Mark
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Question About the Lake Scene
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2007, 03:10:00 pm »

In this scene my feeling is that Jack has no intention of telling Ennis about Randall (or whoever else he might have been seeing). I think that when Jack begins "The truth is..." he intends to finish the sentence with a more heartfelt expression of his feelings, or a resurection of his belief that they can have a life together. However, knowing Ennis (and his skittishness) Jack tones it down to "... I miss you so much I can hardly stand it" (which is still a pretty strong declartion).

Just my ha-penny's worth.

Karen

Karen, I'm with you hunderd per cent on this.


Offline Cameron

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Re: Question About the Lake Scene
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2007, 05:42:23 pm »
":  "We ain't queer." 

When Jack reveals "the truth is...sometimes I miss you so much, I can hardly stand it", that statement is awfully close to "I love you", and therefore unacceptable.  Ennis sort of cowers in response. 

I always wondered if Ennis felt too threatened by this, and "made up" the story about August. 

I so totally agree, in fact thats the basis for all my theories, I think that Ennis was making excuses, why I don't really know, all of the things that were mentioned.  And maybe Ennis was finally starting to realize to that he couldn't live without Jack and that scared him too, so I am convinced no the working in august was an excuse.  I think that at this point he truly felt he was 'nowwhere and nothing' so he was terrified that Jack would leave him despite  Jack saying said 'sometimes I miss you so much'

Or maybe he was terrified because Jack felt like that and he realized he did too...

However, I am convinced  it all  was just an excuse because he did the same thing with A. Junior twice, and both times he was obviously fishing for excuses, at least to me.

Believe me, it takes one to know one,  I can see Ennis viewpoint and I am almost sure that he was making an excuse
« Last Edit: January 19, 2007, 05:54:13 pm by marlb42 »



Offline Ladyeve

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Re: Question About the Lake Scene
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2007, 07:46:11 pm »
Hello,

That was what Jack always wanted, for Ennis to say  "Can I go with you?, but he never did.  But remember,  the next best thing was there in L.F.,   the shirts.


Ladyeve