Author Topic: Gays in Ancient Egypt and Other Civilizations  (Read 15937 times)

Offline David In Indy

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Re: Gays in Ancient Egypt
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2007, 09:42:32 pm »
Thank you for posting that interesting information, David. I remember once reading something about gays in pre-Christian Native American societies being considered spiritual link entities. Forgive me if I've got this wrong along the way, but is it true that they were often the tribal "Medicine Man"? It is my understanding that gay men within many indigenous societies around the world take on a spiritual role within their communities - as shaman, for instance.  David, I would be very interested, indeed, to read more about this fascinating subject. Kindly post the links publicly either here or at a new thread. I'm sure others here at BetterMost would be interested to read about this. You must be so very proud of your wonderful heritage, David. And I can tell how much you love your dear mother. I know very well what you are going through right now. Though it has been three years since she passed away, you still have some time to go yet, before you emerge from the dark cloud of mourning. I'm guessing you were probably 41 when you lost your Mum? My mother also died when I was 41, and can I tell you something? I still miss her every day. We were very close. She was the first person I ever told I was gay and she only gave me unconditional love in return. She was always my best friend. The cliche about time healing all wounds is correct. The edge goes off the grief, in time. And what you're left with is their love. My Mum is always with me. Always will be. I firmly believe that.

You are correct Kerry! Absolutely correct. They were given many spiritual roles in the tribe. Quite often they named the new babies, and young men would consult with a wink'te just after a vision quest. Gay men sometimes went into battle too, although they rarely actually did any fighting. Gay men were considered "lucky" (for lack of a better word) because they had such a close union with God. The warriors always protected the wink'te during any battles and made sure nothing happened to him. Crazy Horse often brought the tribal wink'te along during battles.

The local Native American group I belong to in Indianapolis recognizes me as wink'te, and I am in charge of naming new members. It's quite an honor for me. Like I said, there is a renewed interest in returning to the old ways, and many Native Americans are starting to view homosexuals like our ancestors did 150 or more years ago.

I sure will post those links! I will post them within the next day or two for you, okay?

Yes, I miss my Mother very much. She taught me many things about my Sioux heritage. I'm still learning though. There is a lot to learn!  :)

I sure am sorry to hear about your Mother's death Kerry.  :'(
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Offline David In Indy

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Re: Gays in Ancient Egypt
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2007, 09:44:55 pm »
Yes, David , please post the links or better yet start a new thread about this VERY interesting area of Native American life. Posts and pictures of Native American Civilization especially your tribe and your life would be WONDERFUL. Your personal sharing  would add to this website. Also...please translate the words in your "signature" at the bottom of your posts. Thanks.  :)

Thanks Doug!   :)

My "sig" or "tag" (I'm not sure what they call it) is Lakota. It means "Until we meet my friend, keep a happy heart".  :)
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Offline Kerry

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Re: Gays in Ancient Egypt
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2007, 10:32:44 pm »
The local Native American group I belong to in Indianapolis recognizes me as wink'te, and I am in charge of naming new members. It's quite an honor for me. Like I said, there is a renewed interest in returning to the old ways, and many Native Americans are starting to view homosexuals like our ancestors did 150 or more years ago.

This sounds like a great honour, indeed. I'm so pleased to hear that the old ways are returning.
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Offline TXdoug

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Re: Gays in Ancient Egypt
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2007, 12:22:15 am »
Thanks David . I hope you will enlighten and instruct us about your Native American / Sioux heritage. :)
« Last Edit: January 21, 2007, 12:25:12 am by TXdoug »

Offline Kerry

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Re: Gays in Ancient Egypt
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2007, 12:24:53 am »
Thanks David . I hope you will enlighten and instruct us about your Native American heritage. :)

 :o  Congratulations on becoming a Junior Ranch Hand, Doug!!!   :laugh:
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Offline TXdoug

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Re: Gays in Ancient Egypt
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2007, 12:31:35 am »
Thanks Kerry . I hope David will share a new thread with us about his Sioux heritage. You and he have a real gift of words , imagination,  discussion and educating us  on VERY interesting subjects :)

Offline Kerry

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Re: Gays in Ancient Egypt
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2007, 12:40:02 am »
Kerry, I have read a little of these two Old Kingdom tomb-brothers (in exactly which way, we can only guess), and enjoyed seeing them referenced here. References and depictions of same-sex affection and eroticism seem virtually non-existent in ancient Egyptian civilization, at least in the fragments that have come down to us.

And yet, I remember reading a stray reference once to a Pharaoh who was regarded with scorn for his relations with one of his generals. No mention was made in my source of the Pharaoh's identity (or the general's, for that matter), and I would really appreciate learning this someday. Do you by any chance know anything of this?

Scott - I've not heard anything about the gay pharaoh and general. I mentioned it to a chum, who shares my interest in the ancient world, and he said he'd heard about them. Alas, like you, he couldn't remember where. He couldn't provide me with more details. Should I come across any info in my travels, I'll post it here.
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Offline Kerry

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Re: Gays in Ancient Egypt
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2007, 12:52:21 am »
Kerry, I have read a little of these two Old Kingdom tomb-brothers (in exactly which way, we can only guess), and enjoyed seeing them referenced here. References and depictions of same-sex affection and eroticism seem virtually non-existent in ancient Egyptian civilization, at least in the fragments that have come down to us.

And yet, I remember reading a stray reference once to a Pharaoh who was regarded with scorn for his relations with one of his generals. No mention was made in my source of the Pharaoh's identity (or the general's, for that matter), and I would really appreciate learning this someday. Do you by any chance know anything of this?

Scott - I've just found this interesting link re a "Third Gender" in Ancient Egypt:

www.well.com/user/aquarius/egypt.htm

And if I'm reading it correctly, David, it looks like you weren't so OT after all, because it appears that we may have served as priests in Ancient Egypt, also.
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Offline David In Indy

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Re: Gays in Ancient Egypt
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2007, 02:20:59 am »
Thanks David . I hope you will enlighten and instruct us about your Native American / Sioux heritage. :)

I'll do my best Doug. Like I said, I have much to learn too. But for many years, my Mother taught me a lot, and I do meet with some very knowledgable Native American friends from many different tribes. I will do my best to share what I have learned from them too!  I don't want to OT this thread though. Perhaps Kerry might consider changing the title of this thread to "Gays in Ancient Egypt and Other Civilizations" or something similar. Or perhaps I could start I new thread. Either would be perfectly fine with me.  :D

:o  Congratulations on becoming a Junior Ranch Hand, Doug!!!   :laugh:

Yes, Congratulations Doug on your new BetterMost level! Congratulations to Kerry too. It looks like Brokeback finally "got him good".  :)
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Offline Kerry

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Re: Gays in Ancient Egypt
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2007, 03:00:38 am »
Perhaps Kerry might consider changing the title of this thread to "Gays in Ancient Egypt and Other Civilizations" or something similar.

Your wish is my command, David!  Consider it done!  ;D
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