Author Topic: Camden Yards by debutante9 (Kumari)  (Read 47756 times)

mvansand76

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Re: Camden Yards by debutante9 (Kumari)
« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2007, 06:02:35 pm »
Oh, I agree, Mel.  Ennis won't be going back to Abbey.  That was pretty clear to me after this paragraph:

He remembered looking into her fridge and seeing her strange food, listening to her talk about her life. He wondered if Junior secretly felt the same way about their family, if she couldn’t wait to get a ticket the hell out of Arbutus. He had wanted the girls to stay in state for college, but maybe he was wrong. If he made Junior feel guilty and stay, she might hate him or worse; she would end up screwing some married guy who used her to forget about his own fucked up shit that had nothing to do with her.

Oh, and one thing that Ennis is wrong about - I don't think Abbey is smarter than him at all.  I don't think Ennis gives himself enough credit. 

And, yeah, the house that Jack is secretly building just has to enter into this somehow - just as Abbey served (hopefully that's past tense) her purpose in the story, that house must have a purpose too.

I'd completely forgotten about the rest of the season tickets!  You're right - it's only June in the story.  Lots and lots of games left in this season!  I love when things get so complicated and intriguing (hmm... there's another great story I'm reading that's all angsty and complicated and intriguing, too - but that author has kindly guaranteed a happy ending  ;) LOL!)

Marie


Which one is that......?  ;)

Uhm... yeah, I was kind of thinking about that when I wrote chapter 23 today and thinking about the happy ending to my story, that Kumari never really said CY would end happily.... :-\ Now you got me worried even more...

I love what you said about Ennis not giving himself credit, I believe that too, but it's just the surface, it's something he is hiding his real self behind, and hopefully Jack will be able to permanently drag him out!

And however much I try to like Abbey for being so cooky and wacky (are that the right words) and I normally love those kind of people, just the fact that she had sex with Ennis after his 'Jack revelation' makes her number one on my hitlist. Can't help it, the girl's gotta watch her back from now on!  :laugh:

Oh and that paragraph you quoted says it even better than the last sentence, yes, I completely forgot about that! Ha, need to read it a second time I guess!

Re: tickets: aren't they supposed to go to an away-game? Gosh, I really wish we wouldn't have to wait two months for chapter 8... maybe she has a surprise for us?

We can always hope, right?

Offline mariez

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Re: Camden Yards by debutante9 (Kumari)
« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2007, 06:40:19 pm »
Yep, Mel  - "cooky and wacky" are exactly the right words for Abbey.  And you're feelings about Abbey are perfectly valid - I mean they're your honest feelings - so they can't be wrong!  (Although I have to admit that Ennis was totally hot with her - in fact, I think part of me was jealous of Abbey, which may be another reason I didn't like seeing him with her  LOL!) 

And, yes, Mel - we can always hope!

Marie

(P.S. You wrote Chapter 23 today?  Yay!) 
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

mvansand76

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Re: Camden Yards by debutante9 (Kumari)
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2007, 05:37:29 am »
Yep, Mel  - "cooky and wacky" are exactly the right words for Abbey.  And you're feelings about Abbey are perfectly valid - I mean they're your honest feelings - so they can't be wrong!  (Although I have to admit that Ennis was totally hot with her - in fact, I think part of me was jealous of Abbey, which may be another reason I didn't like seeing him with her  LOL!) 

And, yes, Mel - we can always hope!

Marie

(P.S. You wrote Chapter 23 today?  Yay!) 

Yep, I did, it's a record, wrote it in one day. Doesn't mean it's finished though... have to do rewrites now...  :P

Abbey: I just kept thinking of that granny dress she was wearing though, the way Kumari described it didn't make me think Ennis would go for her like that, but he really enjoyed it I guess, which makes his feelings for Jack apparently even stronger, because if he already immensely enjoyed this, what must the experience with Jack done to him? Ha!


mvansand76

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Re: Camden Yards by debutante9 (Kumari)
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2007, 04:41:34 pm »
OK, Marie, I'm back... ;D


Mmmmm.... I was just reading CY and some of the comments and you know what I noticed? There are some commenters who wonder why others were so shocked by the sex between Abbey and Ennis. The sex was hot, what's wrong with straight sex in the fandom? I think they seem to forget that when you root for a couple to make it in a story it might be normal to feel not so happy about one of the two to have sex with somebody else. And let's face it, when the story involves Jack AND Ennis, you want them to be together, right? I think I know why I didn't think the sex was hot at all. (And remember, this is completely subjective!) It wasn't based on feelings that have developed over time and that come to fruition (oh God there I go again... is that even a word...?) which makes sex scenes in stories so interesting. The sex scene was necessary and extremely well-written, but it didn't do anything for me. I know I was waiting for Ennis to run away but I knew he wasn't going to, he needed to experience this. I do love that about this story and about the way she writes, it's not like she writes what people generally want to read to sooth their nerves and she doesn't shy away from writing difficult things.

Then there's Abbey. OK, she is different, but who isn't? I have always felt like that and had friends like that, still do, and I have only just started completely accepting that not all people are gonna understand me, my music choice, my film choice, my choices in life. So I can relate to her wackiness, but she just annoyed the hell out of me. Is it just because she screwed Ennis? Is it because she plays records instead of plugs in her iPod? Is it because she opened the door in a pale pink housedress? Or is it because I am not even sure what a pale pink housedress looks like because I am not even sure we have housedresses in Holland and I am picturing her completely different than Kumari intended? I think it's none of these reasons. I'm annoyed at her for giving Ennis the opportunity to cheat on Alma and Jack at the same time. I am annoyed at Ennis for taking it. I might find the whole 'scene' so 'shocking' because I am looking at it through Jack's eyes because I relate so much to him and I know how much he will be hurt when he finds out about this.

I am sorry, I am rambling....

 :P

« Last Edit: July 05, 2007, 05:01:57 pm by Snavel del Snuit »

mvansand76

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Re: Camden Yards by debutante9 (Kumari)
« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2007, 05:05:08 pm »
I am sorry, I was trying to make sense of my own cooky and wacky comments... :-\

LOL!

 


Offline mariez

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Re: Camden Yards by debutante9 (Kumari)
« Reply #45 on: July 05, 2007, 05:09:09 pm »
Hi ya Mel!

I love reading your posts!  I totally understand what you're saying.   :)  As I said before, I found Ennis to be totally hot in that sex scene, but not because he was with Abbey (if that makes any sense).  I didn't like the idea of Ennis being with her.  Not at all.  And, yeah, it is partly (well, ok, mostly) because I am, as you said, rooting for J&E to be together.  But, you know what?  (And I almost feel like I have to apologize for saying this because apparently many people just loved Abbey).    I didn't think she was cool or smart or free or awesome or any of the other things that others found in her.  I thought she was sad - and rather pathetic.  She seemed to be so nonchalant, almost cavalier, about having a quickie with Ennis, as if she does this type of thing all the time with guys she picks up at work - and I think that's kind of pitiful.  I keep coming back to this same paragraph that I quoted earlier:

He remembered looking into her fridge and seeing her strange food, listening to her talk about her life. He wondered if Junior secretly felt the same way about their family, if she couldn’t wait to get a ticket the hell out of Arbutus. He had wanted the girls to stay in state for college, but maybe he was wrong. If he made Junior feel guilty and stay, she might hate him or worse; she would end up screwing some married guy who used her to forget about his own fucked up shit that had nothing to do with her.

That's not cool or funny or quirky in a good way to me - it's sad.  And I think Ennis has the situation figured out completely - and that's why he's a hell of a lot smarter than Abbey. 

And, yeah, I'm worried about Jack's reaction too (and to be honest, I'm also for worried for Alma!).  He was bothered when he found out from Jude that Ennis had taken Abbey's phone number - I don't know what he's going to think when he finds out the rest of the story. 

Feel free to ramble away, Mel - I love discussing this with you!   :)

Thanks,
Marie

P.S.  Yes, fruition was the perfect word.

The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

mvansand76

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Re: Camden Yards by debutante9 (Kumari)
« Reply #46 on: July 05, 2007, 05:35:56 pm »
Hi ya Mel!

I love reading your posts!  I totally understand what you're saying.   :)  As I said before, I found Ennis to be totally hot in that sex scene, but not because he was with Abbey (if that makes any sense).  I didn't like the idea of Ennis being with her.  Not at all.  And, yeah, it is partly (well, ok, mostly) because I am, as you said, rooting for J&E to be together.  But, you know what?  (And I almost feel like I have to apologize for saying this because apparently many people just loved Abbey).    I didn't think she was cool or smart or free or awesome or any of the other things that others found in her.  I thought she was sad - and rather pathetic.  She seemed to be so nonchalant, almost cavalier, about having a quickie with Ennis, as if she does this type of thing all the time with guys she picks up at work - and I think that's kind of pitiful.  I keep coming back to this same paragraph that I quoted earlier:

He remembered looking into her fridge and seeing her strange food, listening to her talk about her life. He wondered if Junior secretly felt the same way about their family, if she couldn’t wait to get a ticket the hell out of Arbutus. He had wanted the girls to stay in state for college, but maybe he was wrong. If he made Junior feel guilty and stay, she might hate him or worse; she would end up screwing some married guy who used her to forget about his own fucked up shit that had nothing to do with her.

That's not cool or funny or quirky in a good way to me - it's sad.  And I think Ennis has the situation figured out completely - and that's why he's a hell of a lot smarter than Abbey. 

And, yeah, I'm worried about Jack's reaction too (and to be honest, I'm also for worried for Alma!).  He was bothered when he found out from Jude that Ennis had taken Abbey's phone number - I don't know what he's going to think when he finds out the rest of the story. 

Feel free to ramble away, Mel - I love discussing this with you!   :)

Thanks,
Marie

P.S.  Yes, fruition was the perfect word.



I love how you put that and yes, that is a very telling paragraph, and worthy of quoting twice!

Also, I understand what you are saying about Ennis in that scene, it shows that he is starting to get in touch with his sexuality again and this can only be positive for Jack. LOL!

Oh Alma, yes, I never have that with OS Alma, but this Alma is just causing me to have so much more sympathy for her. I don't know why. I also felt sorry for her when Ennis made it all about himself when HER father died. At least, that's how I interpreted it, do you know what I mean?

And if I come to think of it now, I feel sorry for Abbey too, and hope she doesn't fall in love with Ennis, because she doesn't stand a chance with him. In a way Ennis used her, and even if she offered herself willingly, he should have known better and I think that paragraph you quoted shows that he understands that. He might have been intrigued by her for a little while, but it didn't last.

Love discussing this with you too! A story worth discussing because she puts so much thought into writing it.



 :-*Mel


Offline David In Indy

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Re: Camden Yards by debutante9 (Kumari)
« Reply #47 on: July 05, 2007, 08:36:42 pm »
*David pokes his head through the door and eavesdrops on Melissa and Marie*
Dogs have owners. Cats have staff.

Offline mariez

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Re: Camden Yards by debutante9 (Kumari)
« Reply #48 on: July 05, 2007, 08:53:43 pm »

...Also, I understand what you are saying about Ennis in that scene, it shows that he is starting to get in touch with his sexuality again and this can only be positive for Jack. LOL!

Yep, you stated that better than I did (and let's hope about the "positive for Jack" part!  ;D


Oh Alma, yes, I never have that with OS Alma, but this Alma is just causing me to have so much more sympathy for her. I don't know why. I also felt sorry for her when Ennis made it all about himself when HER father died. At least, that's how I interpreted it, do you know what I mean?

Well, I'm one of those people who has always had sympathy for Alma, even in the OS - she really never did anything but marry a boy she loved.  But I do find I'm worrying about her even more in this story.  I think it's because she knows Jack in this story.  To use Kumari's own description - they are family to each other.  So she's not only being betrayed (and, yes, as much as I want J&E together -I can't deny that that's what they're doing) by her husband but by someone else that she loves....and trusts.  Another reason why I find this whole story so intriguing and so original - how will all of this play out? 

I was so deeply touched by Ennis's sincere devotion and love for Hank and how gentle and patient he was in caring for him, that I can't be upset with him for his reaction to Hank's death.  It seemed to me that he thought of Hank as the father he lost, more than a father-in-law. I do know what you mean - Alma was grieving too, of course - but I didn't see Ennis as consciously making it all about him instead of Alma - it was more that he was so lost in his own grief.  Ennis is always taking care of people in this story - always worrying about someone else and he never (until now) has thought much about himself or his feelings.  I keep thinking back to the famous "missed game" chapter where Ennis cries to Jack about how he took it like a man when his parents died, then asking "Why can't I have nobody" - that just broke my heart. 

God, I hope Abbey doesn't expect more from Ennis - he needs more guilt like a hole in the head!  I don't think on a conscious level Ennis realized he was using Abbey until the moment he was reflecting about it.  Ennis has been through an emotional earthquake in the last few chapters - his entire life and everything he always thought he knew about himself is upside down and inside out.  And where can he go?  What can he do?  Because his most trusted friend and confidant is the very person causing the upheaval.  To say that this is a complicated situation would be the understatement of the century! 

Well, look how I've rambled now!  LOL!  You're so right -  this is a story worth discussing because of all the thought put into it!

 :-*
Marie

Ha Ha!  I was just about to post and I spotted David poking his head through the  door!   :laugh:  Come on in, David - are you reading this story, too? 
« Last Edit: July 05, 2007, 09:17:37 pm by mariez »
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline belbbmfan

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Re: Camden Yards by debutante9 (Kumari)
« Reply #49 on: July 06, 2007, 02:19:39 am »
God, Marie, I love it when you ramble!  :)

You always have such insightful thoughts about what drives a person to do or say certain things. And you know Ennis and Jack so well.
'We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em'