Author Topic: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie  (Read 163513 times)

Offline RossInIllinois

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Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« on: March 14, 2007, 02:39:45 pm »
I work in the film business and I can't get over how the set decorating and Ang Lee screwed up when it comes to the Twist family home. This set looks more like Little house on the prairie than a home of 1982/1983 what were they thinking?  The Kitchen had an "Ice Box" in it thats just ridiculous. The appliances toaster etc on the counter look to be of vintage 1930s.  There are no pictures of "Jack" anywhere nothing in the house to make it looked lived in all these years. I'm shocked Ang didn't make them correct that ugly mess of a set. It looks like they found an old barn had the painters put a grenade in a couple buckets of gray paint once they exploaded gray paint on EVERYTHING  then added a table and Volla the Twist family home. This set/concept is shameful for such a movie.  Maybe thats why Ang portrayed Jacks parents as Mental institution zombies on Valium to make the look of the set work better??? ;D
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 02:55:06 pm by RossInIllinois »

Offline opinionista

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2007, 03:08:22 pm »
Welcome to Bettermost Ross. Your comments are very interesting. I seldom pay attention to decoration details. However, I did notice the Twists home was a bit too empty to be a home. Granted, they wanted to show their poverty but Ennis's home, for example, did not look as empty as the Twists's home did. However, Jack's room was more believable, IMO that is. The closet, the figurines on the desk, made it look like what could've been Jack's room in real life.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. -Mark Twain.

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2007, 03:16:09 pm »
Welcome to Bettermost Ross. Your comments are very interesting. I seldom pay attention to decoration details. However, I did notice the Twists home was a bit too empty to be a home. Granted, they wanted to show their poverty but Ennis's home, for example, did not look as empty as the Twists's home did. However, Jack's room was more believable, IMO that is. The closet, the figurines on the desk, made it look like what could've been Jack's room in real life.

Hi  :) Exactly, You can make a house look "poor" but lived in. This looked like no thought at all went into it almost like a "rush job" on a budget of about $100.00
I think Jacks bed room was OK too but still to sparse for a kids room of that time. Where did he live as a teenager in the 50s in THAT room? I don't think so.  I'm assuming they wanted us to think Jack came from semi "Normal" parents didn't they? I would be afraid to sample a piece of cherry cake from that lady in that kitchen  ;)  I think its problems like this that could have kept BBM from winning Best Picture. People in the business REALLY look at the details when giving such awards for Best Picture.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 04:24:00 pm by RossInIllinois »

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2007, 04:28:55 pm »
Hi  :) Exactly, You can make a house look "poor" but lived in. This looked like no thought at all went into it almost like a "rush job" on a budget of about $100.00
I think Jacks bed room was OK too but still to sparse for a kids room of that time. Where did he live as a teenager in the 50s in THAT room? I don't think so.  I'm assuming they wanted us to think Jack came from semi "Normal" parents didn't they? I would be afraid to sample a piece of cherry cake from that lady in that kitchen  ;)

It seems to me that Jack's bedroom is pretty faithful to Annie Proulx, whose description in the story makes it sound very Spartan, but I wondered some things about that house, too. I wondered about the "ice box"; I couldn't tell if it really was an actual ice box or a very old "electric ice box." I'll have to watch for the toaster next time.  ;D Also there is some cross-shaped, clearly religious thing hanging on the wall. You can't really see what's in the center of it, but on the face of it, that didn't seem quite right for a fundamentalist Protestant/"believes in the Pentecost" home. I could be wrong but that impresses me as more Roman Catholic-like, and therefore not appropriate for the Twist home.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2007, 05:05:50 pm »
     Well here i am, on the opposite end of the stick again.  I thought that house represented, the entire idea.  Of the old mans influence.  The spartan, no frills allowed.  And none granted, atmosphere he made in that house.  The ice box, because he wouldnt pay for a new one, even if they had electricity in the place.  Which im not sure of.  It showed the fact that no one was allowed to shine in that house. No photos, no family mementos, and no sympathetic, feelings.  In short a home without love.  The only place at all Jack showed up was in his, still sparse room.  But what he had was in stark contrast to the entire rest of the house.  Just showing what a special person he was to have emerged from such a sad and lonely place.  I thought it was perfectly set... I didnt think it at all wrong.
                                                                                   Janice
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 05:10:15 pm by ifyoucantfixit »



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Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2007, 05:12:54 pm »

     We here i am on the opposite end of the stick again.  I thought that house represented the entire idea of the old mans influence.  The spartan, no frills allowed.  And none granted atmosphere he made in that house.  The ice box, because he wouldnt pay for a new one, even if they had electricity in the place.  Which im not sure of.  It showed the fact that no one was allowed to shine in that house. No photos, no family mementos, and no sympathetic, feelings.  In short a home without love.  The only place at all Jack showed up was in his still sparse room.  But what he had was in stark contrast to the entire rest of the house.  Just showing what a special person he was to have emerged from such a sad and lonely place.  I thought it was perfectly set...                                       janice
I didnt think it at all wrong.

Hence why I said it looked more like a house of the Mentally ill than that of "more normal folk" of the time. Yes they do have electricity check out Jacks closet and 1930s desk lamp. When I say Ice Box I mean Ice Box not something thats plugged in to a wall outlet. You would at least have a fridge from the 50s in 1983 don't you think? This set should have been more "All in the Family" only less kept up and a bit more sparse and country looking.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 05:23:51 pm by RossInIllinois »

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2007, 05:21:39 pm »
I think the blank, white-washed look of the house was supposed to be sepulchral and other-worldly. That doesn't explain the dated appliances, though!  :laugh:

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2007, 05:26:47 pm »
I have to disagree. I think the Twist house was deliberately this Spartan. Ang Lee's films are all about symbolism and Brokeback is no different. I think that he was trying to show us that even though Jack came from such sober surroundings, he still became the person he wanted to be: the lively, exuberant person who deep down loved life and always wanted the best for himself and for the people he loved.

And it shows us that there is still something like your own identity that has nothing to do with how you grew up and the influence of your parents.

Also, there is a big difference between the downstairs area and Jack's room. Jack's room had much more personal stuff in it, not to mention the shirts, the symbol of their eternal love.



Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2007, 05:34:23 pm »
Well sober surrondings are fine. But in 1983 not seeing ONE ITEM looking like it was made after 1940 in the house is just whacky and unrealistic IMO.

Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2007, 05:54:24 pm »
    Well i have to say again.  I dont know if it would be called a house, of the mentally ill, or not.  However i can say when you live way out in the middle of nowhere, and have a father,
that isnt even as bad as old man twist, it can be a harrowing experience.  What kind of person in
their right mind would do the things to their child these days that was done to Jack.?  But there are a lot of kids of that time period that got periodic beatings.  And it was fully accepted as the norm.  A fathers prerogative if you will.  I dont know that the appliance
thing would have been any different on a farm that was not doing well at all.. No money left to replace, what he felt was aleady adaquate...  Just my opinion...

« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 02:24:10 pm by ifyoucantfixit »



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injest

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2007, 06:41:26 pm »
Ross you do have a good point. The stairwell ESPECIALLY was just ridiculous...it really did look (to me) as if they had just found this ol house and decided to use it as is.

I lived out in the country in houses that were so old they didn't even have inside toilets that didn't look that bad..and I was born in the sixties.

the cross though would have been normal for a pentecostal home...just surprised to see nothing else in the house...way too bare

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2007, 07:11:03 pm »
Ross you do have a good point. The stairwell ESPECIALLY was just ridiculous...it really did look (to me) as if they had just found this ol house and decided to use it as is.

Really?  ???

Quote
I lived out in the country in houses that were so old they didn't even have inside toilets that didn't look that bad..and I was born in the sixties.

You have a two-holer like my grandparents' place, Jess?  ;D  (And they lived in town!  :laugh: )

Quote
the cross though would have been normal for a pentecostal home...just surprised to see nothing else in the house...way too bare

Thanks for that 'bout the cross, little darlin'. I'm not really familiar with that tradition--thought perhaps something with a cross was too "Catholic." My mother was raised in a small denomination that eventually became part of the United Methodist Church. My grandparents had stuff like inexpensive, kitschy reproductions of "The Last Supper," but no crosses.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2007, 07:13:42 pm »
 
Ross you do have a good point. The stairwell ESPECIALLY was just ridiculous...it really did look (to me) as if they had just found this ol house and decided to use it as is.

I lived out in the country in houses that were so old they didn't even have inside toilets that didn't look that bad..and I was born in the sixties.

the cross though would have been normal for a pentecostal home...just surprised to see nothing else in the house...way too bare

Yes indeed,  The concept/look they used looks very contrived and looks like a set and not realistic like someones home would remotely look like in the early 1980s, thats what bugs me really.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 07:37:00 pm by RossInIllinois »

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2007, 07:16:34 pm »
Well, backing away from the Twist house for a moment, I'll mention something else that I consider a production mistake.

I've said this before, elsewhere. It only makes a difference to a train lover like me  ;D , but that freight train that passes Ennis while he's waiting outside Joe Aguirre's office, and that we then see move off into the distance as Jack's pickup approaches, should have had a caboose on the end of it. In the U.S. in 1963, freight trains still had cabooses.
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Offline opinionista

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2007, 08:00:18 pm »
Well, backing away from the Twist house for a moment, I'll mention something else that I consider a production mistake.

I've said this before, elsewhere. It only makes a difference to a train lover like me  ;D , but that freight train that passes Ennis while he's waiting outside Joe Aguirre's office, and that we then see move off into the distance as Jack's pickup approaches, should have had a caboose on the end of it. In the U.S. in 1963, freight trains still had cabooses.

You're right, In fact,  I think I read that someplace else Jeff. There are quite a few errors in the movie but I think all movies have errors, don't they?
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. -Mark Twain.

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2007, 08:01:32 pm »
Also to me the train they showed looked like only 3 or four cars long vs the one they filmed through to the lot.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2007, 09:51:42 pm »
Also to me the train they showed looked like only 3 or four cars long vs the one they filmed through to the lot.

Could be. I've never really been able to get a "fix" on the length of the train as it moves off into the distance.
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injest

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2007, 11:31:18 pm »
Really?  ???

You have a two-holer like my grandparents' place, Jess?  ;D  (And they lived in town!  :laugh: )

Thanks for that 'bout the cross, little darlin'. I'm not really familiar with that tradition--thought perhaps something with a cross was too "Catholic." My mother was raised in a small denomination that eventually became part of the United Methodist Church. My grandparents had stuff like inexpensive, kitschy reproductions of "The Last Supper," but no crosses.

Dang, your folks was fancy!! no, we just had a one hole...litty bitty ol dark scary place...

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2007, 12:25:13 am »
Yes indeed most movies have some type of continunity errors.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2007, 09:44:41 am »
Dang, your folks was fancy!! no, we just had a one hole...litty bitty ol dark scary place...


Full of spiders and bees, I'll bet?

That was just my grandparents' place. We had indoor plumbing!  ;D
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Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2007, 01:46:45 pm »
From the first viewing I started picking up on things I didn't think were quite right, starting with the semi that dumps Ennis in Signal, I thought it didn't seem period, but after numerous viewings I am used to it now.

Jack's use of the word Asphyxiate always seems out of place, as does "commuting" 4 hours a day.

But my favorite is Uncle Harold's disappearing stick of wood off the chopping block.
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Offline Br. Patrick

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2007, 02:10:01 pm »
But my favorite is Uncle Harold's disappearing stick of wood off the chopping block.

That one gets to me too!   ;)
Lean on me, let our hearts beat in time,
Feel strength from the hands that have held you so long.
Who cares where we go on this rugged old road
In a world that may say that we're wrong.

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Gustavo Santaolalla & Bernie Taupin

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2007, 02:20:25 pm »
Ellemeno told me about the dissapearing church steeple at Aguirre's office, but I tend to think that was more of a camera angle phenomena
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Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2007, 02:22:31 pm »
From the first viewing I started picking up on things I didn't think were quite right, starting with the semi that dumps Ennis in Signal, I thought it didn't seem period, but after numerous viewings I am used to it now.

Jack's use of the word Asphyxiate always seems out of place, as does "commuting" 4 hours a day.

But my favorite is Uncle Harold's disappearing stick of wood off the chopping block.

You are right its not a period truck. I also noticed in the 1980s scenes you rarely see a car its mostly much older than period pickups. All the cars and trucks seem to be from the 60s even in the 80s!! I  have worked with both makeup people on this movie a Boyfriend and girlfriend couple team Manlio and Linda, I was shocked that I thought the makeup looked bad to me. They usually do great work. Some scenes Jake G looked like a Raccoon with big dark rings around his eyes almost like he had a darkish eye shadow on him im not sure if it was intentional or not but to me it didnt look right.  I also noticed a very heavy base makeup on Heaths face his near his right  eye area almost like a heavy covering to hide some sort of skin flaw. I think it looked awful. Sorry Manlio  ;D

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2007, 02:32:29 pm »
I thought the makeup was reasonably convincing. Trying to turn hot 26-year-olds into middle-aged men could not have been easy (though probably easier than the other way around would be ;D). But between the makeup and Jake and Heath's capturing older mannerisms, I can go with it.

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2007, 02:38:49 pm »
I thought the makeup was reasonably convincing. Trying to turn hot 26-year-olds into middle-aged men could not have been easy (though probably easier than the other way around would be ;D). But between the makeup and Jake and Heath's capturing older mannerisms, I can go with it.


You know they filmed the movie in reverse the big sideburn shots were done first I'm told they they cut them off for the earlier shots.  What disappearing stick is everyone talking about?

Offline Br. Patrick

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2007, 02:57:23 pm »
What disappearing stick is everyone talking about?

Jack's been chopping firewood when Joe Aquirre rides up.  He leaves a small log on the tree trunk that he was going to chop.   When Aquirre leaves the small log is gone.   (I think one of the coyotes with the balls the size of apples carted it off somewhere when nobody was lookiing...)

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Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2007, 03:01:54 pm »
I remember back in the early days on the yahoo movie board there was a discussion about weather of not Jack had been infected with HIV in Mexico because of his makeup.
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Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2007, 03:18:40 pm »
OMG I never noticed that log before thats a bad mistake. That falls in the hands of the script supervisor and Ang Lee.  ;)

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2007, 03:25:13 pm »
Jack's use of the word Asphyxiate always seems out of place, as does "commuting" 4 hours a day.

I could buy "asphyxiate" as Jack trying to show off, but "commuting" never did sound quite right to me for country-raised kid in 1963.

I've seen the church steeple phenomenon described as "moving" rather than "disappearing," but that's definitely a camera-angle thing.

I never noticed the stick of firewood.  :-\
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mvansand76

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2007, 03:40:55 pm »
THE LOG ALWAYS DRIVES ME NUTS!  >:(

What about the hood of the car in the "You gonna do this again" scene?


Offline serious crayons

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2007, 04:48:43 pm »
You know they filmed the movie in reverse the big sideburn shots were done first I'm told they they cut them off for the earlier shots.

Wait a minute. Are you saying those sideburns are real?  :laugh: I would have thought they could just peel them off for earlier shots.

[/quote]
I never noticed the stick of firewood.  :-\

How about the beans? Or the pie?


Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2007, 12:47:22 am »
Wait a minute. Are you saying those sideburns are real?  :laugh: I would have thought they could just peel them off for earlier shots.


How about the beans? Or the pie?



After looking closer the burns are stick ons but darn expensive ones.

Offline Garry_LH

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2007, 01:45:17 pm »
There are a lot of prop problems in the film. There are also a lot of incredibly accurate moments. Jack & Lurren's home was so on the mark, it made me want to gag in memory of the style of the period. The homes of Ennis and Alma also feel like homes, no matter how poor. I really wish Dana was still hanging around. He could give us a better idea of when, if ever, the rural electric reached certain places in Wyoming. If you notice where Ennis is living when Jack makes the trip after hearing about Ennis's divorce, there's an old wind powered electric generator still setting on top of it's mill. It would not surprise me to find there are isolated spots even today that depend on such alternate forms of energy.

In accuracy, if you want to go back to the beginning of the film, that old rusty white GMC, we see setting off in the well mowed grass as Jack makes his entrance, it would have been nearly new, if not a year newer, than 1963. Jack's blue Ford had rust streaks from under the camper shell. I strongly suspect the reason we keep seeing the same 1960's cars recycled in the film, is the way too tight budget such a period movie needs to make it fully believable. And still, Brokeback Mountain' is a masterpiece that will be examined, taught, and talked about for decades to come.

The Twist house does feel overly stark. I tend to agree though, that Ang Lee did this on purpose. And yes, that ice box should at the very least been a gas or propane fired fridge. I'd say the house's starkness bothers me more by not giving us much feeling of Mrs. Twist's presence. Like at my grandparents old place. A bit of old wall paper, those old black and white pictures of long dead relatives, Then the only thing we see on the Twist place that would have been modern, was the old Man's pickup truck. Speaking to the old man's priorities in life perhaps? And, just how much his persona tried to crush Jack's spirit... and most certainly that of his wife.

Then, there is another possibility. From what I've read, the scene at the Twists was the last one shot. With that side step into the lost hippy rescue scene, it's possible they were running short on funds by the time they got down to that last location. I would guess, Focus Features now wishes they had put more than the fourteen million into shooting the film than they did.

Ohhh... Lardy... Shakes was over at Yahoo back when I was!!!

I will say the make up around Heath's eyes from after Ennis finds out about Jack's death is a bit much. At certain points, it looked to me like it was trying to peel off his face.

I'd have to go dig out the short story, but I was thinking the commuting line is in there as well... Now where did I put the book so I wouldn't lose it?

You know... did they have a continuity director on this film?  Or did budget restraints mean, Ang Lee had to wear two dozen caps? 

Yeah, Ennis not getting the hood on the truck shut, and then it being closed when Jack walks back around his truck, that's another... awww come on moment for me too. And yeah, I know the dialog would have been hard to film, but you don't shut off an old truck just after you got it started after setting a couple of months.

Hmmm... wonder what part of Jake they shaved to make those burns?
It could be like this, just like this... always.

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2007, 02:15:20 pm »
Yes they did have a script supervisor on the film. She is in charge of continunity and making sure any script variances in filming are noted for the editors. She is also in charge of making sure scenes "match" with each other such as the missing log. She also "times" each scene filmed so they know how long the film is running. Every film has such a person she/he usually works right next to the Director when filming.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2007, 06:56:17 pm »
I'd have to go dig out the short story, but I was thinking the commuting line is in there as well... Now where did I put the book so I wouldn't lose it?

The "commuting" line is in the story, and,  notwithstanding Annie Proulx's acknowledged genius, I don't think it sounds right in the story either, for a kid raised when and where Jack was raised.  :-\
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2007, 07:01:34 pm »
How about the beans? Or the pie?

What about the beans and the pie? I don't remember anyone commenting on any problem with beans. As for the pie, if you mean Ennis's piece of apple pie in the bus station coffee shop, I've tried to spot a problem with that and I can't. Maybe it's just another camera angle thing, but it always just looks to me like a piece of pie that's been fiddled with on the plate as well as had a few bites taken out of it. Maybe if you watch the scene frame by frame on a PC. ...  :-\
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2007, 07:06:27 pm »
The "commuting" line is in the story, and,  notwithstanding Annie Proulx's acknowledged genius, I don't think it sounds right in the story either, for a kid raised when and where Jack was raised.  :-\

Well, we know that Jack read magazines, he had a picture from a tabloid pinned up on his bedroom wall. He tried to improve himself, and one of the ways was thru his vocabulary!!
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Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2007, 08:00:32 pm »
Two I have noticed. When J & E leave Signal in August the same two pickups are parked on the street as when jack return the next year.

At the lake scene you can tell when Ennis collapses into Jack that it was taken from two takes.
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2007, 08:50:35 pm »
Well, we know that Jack read magazines, he had a picture from a tabloid pinned up on his bedroom wall. He tried to improve himself, and one of the ways was thru his vocabulary!!


Tell you what, I'm glad you mentioned that picture pinned to the wall (in the story), Lee! I've been meaning to ask, is there some movie star picture pinned to the bedroom wall--like, maybe, over the bed?--in the film? I've never been able to see whether there is one there, or not.  ???
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Cameron

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2007, 09:13:47 pm »
I have one that is bugging me lately.  I think that everyone agrees that the dozy embrace had to happen at the very end of the time up on the mountain, when Jack and Ennis were at Camp Site 2, or at least I think people do and that is what makes most sense.

But if you look closely at the background during the whole dozy embrace scene, the scenary looks much more like Camp Site 1.  There is no strange white wooden thing, no stream, no bridge.

It dosn't make sense, or did they think it wouldn't be noticed?

Or am I mistaken?



Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #41 on: March 18, 2007, 09:33:19 pm »
Actually dozy embrace (flashback scene) must have happened when they were in the second camp, because Ennis had to leave to go up with the sheep.
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Offline Cameron

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #42 on: March 18, 2007, 09:56:42 pm »
Actually dozy embrace (flashback scene) must have happened when they were in the second camp, because Ennis had to leave to go up with the sheep.

Yes, that's what I thought.  But if you look real carefully at the film, it looks like the DE was fillmed at the first campsite. it dosn't make sense except that Ang and co. got lazy or somethng.

And another one.  During the 'I aint queer scene' the sheep are visible in the backgroud by the trees.  But according to the Finding Brokeback site that scene was filmed at a completely different mountain than all the other scenes.  So the sheep pasture are in that scene looks totally different that the sheep scene just before that. It obviously isn't the same place, even though it is supposed to be.  That bothers me.

Or am I going overboard now?



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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #43 on: March 18, 2007, 10:08:50 pm »
From the first viewing I started picking up on things I didn't think were quite right, starting with the semi that dumps Ennis in Signal, I thought it didn't seem period, but after numerous viewings I am used to it now.

Jack's use of the word Asphyxiate always seems out of place, as does "commuting" 4 hours a day.

But my favorite is Uncle Harold's disappearing stick of wood off the chopping block.

I always thought of this as part of Jack's charm...picturing him reading Time and Life to get a feel of the world outside of his little corner of the world...and to appear more educated and worldly!!

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2007, 11:40:44 pm »
I don't remember anyone commenting on any problem with beans.

Oops! I mean peanuts -- the jars in the grocery store that magically right themselves after spilling on the floor.

Quote
As for the pie, if you mean Ennis's piece of apple pie in the bus station coffee shop, I've tried to spot a problem with that and I can't.

OK, you got me here, too. I've heard about the pie but to be honest am not sure I've actually seen the discrepency with my own eyes.

But here's one I have seen with my own eyes, and I've never seen anybody else mention it. During the "happy tussel" after TS2, I see a mule start to walk out from behind a bush, and then what appears to be a man step out and pull the mule back behind the bush. If you're in doubt and want to take a close look without putting in the DVD, check out the scene in "4 Nights in 20 Years":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZTMBth4-lg&search=brokeback

Offline Cameron

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #45 on: March 18, 2007, 11:52:19 pm »
I have one more that bothers me.  When Ennis goes into the tent for TS1, he has the blanket and he covers himself when he lies down.

When Jack reaches for his hand, the blanket is gone, completely!

Where did it go?  Since it is so cold that night, he wouldn't have gotten rid of it, and its not covering him at all when Jack takes his hand.

I think there was another mistake here.



Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2007, 01:08:58 am »
And when they wake up Jack is again wearing his jacket.
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #47 on: March 19, 2007, 03:39:20 am »
Oops! I mean peanuts -- the jars in the grocery store that magically right themselves after spilling on the floor.

OK, you got me here, too. I've heard about the pie but to be honest am not sure I've actually seen the discrepency with my own eyes.

But here's one I have seen with my own eyes, and I've never seen anybody else mention it. During the "happy tussle" after TS2, I see a mule start to walk out from behind a bush, and then what appears to be a man step out and pull the mule back behind the bush. If you're in doubt and want to take a close look without putting in the DVD, check out the scene in "4 Nights in 20 Years":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Stumble4-lg&search=brokeback


OMG that is so funny I never noticed that before in the Happy Tussle scene way to the left of frame you can see someone hiding in the bushes. Most likely one of the animal wranglers or a production assistant.

What I noticed about the pie scene was in some takes the pie looked 1/2 eaten and in others it appears almost whole and it changes from shot to shot. This scene must have taken several takes to complete and at some point the pie had to be "refreshed".

Yes indeed another Miss match are the peanuts on the shelf at the A&P. Clearly the bottom jars were fallen and broken in the first sequence. These are pretty bad mistakes and fall squarely in the lap of the script supervisor and Ange lee and the Prop Department.


This is the problem when you are making a film on a tight budget like BBM was. Mistakes are made in all films but are usually corrected and screwed up Miss matched sequences are usually noted by the editors and then re shot later to fix the problem's but here it proves that "no money" means "No fix". Also No Money meant they had to "Cheat" some scenes like the camp sites and sheep positions to the camp site because it was more economical that way. Its a Shame they didn't have enough money and maybe 2 extra weeks of production time to finessed this film better. It could be these very issues that cost BBM its best picture Oscar and not really the gay issue but I assume it was a little of both.

Did you also happen to notice in the scene where Ennis and Alma are going to bed and Ennis has the pajama bottoms on the fly is badly gapping in several shots and the editors have blackened out on the negative the "little guy" trying to be the scene stealer??

What really would have helped on BBM is if they would have paid for a Top End script supervisor the Bitchy Bitch Bitch Bitch kind I have worked with on some films before that REALLY have an eye for the details and somehow sees every speck of dust that is out of place. However sometimes Producers hate this type of supervisor because they see them as being over cautious and costing them money because they are so anal. I think it would seem on a low budget film such as BBM it would pay in the long run to "deal" with such a persons perfectionism. However in defense of the script supervisor in many cases the script supervisor is the directors choice and some directors choose a script person because he/she says nothing and lets the director do what he dam pleases this could be the case here also. Some directors are known for mis matched sequences and as long as they are small don't care, its just part of there style of film making.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 03:22:01 pm by RossInIllinois »

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2007, 08:59:11 am »
Oops! I mean peanuts -- the jars in the grocery store that magically right themselves after spilling on the floor.


Got me there. That's another thing I'm not sharp enough to catch. Anybody ever count how many jars are left upright in the one shot compared to how many are standing in the other shot?  ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2007, 09:06:01 am »
And when they wake up Jack is again wearing his jacket.

Tell you what, this is something that I've never considered a production mistake or continuity error--though perhaps it might be to someone involved in the technical side of film-making. We don't see every second of them having sex. Seems perfectly natural to me, on such a cold night, that Jack would put his coat back on before going back to sleep.

I've just assumed that what happened was that Ennis, who, apparently, was drunker than Jack, "pulled out," collapsed, and went right to sleep--without even bothering or taking/having the time to pull his pants back up, as we see the next morning. Jack, on the other hand, who wasn't quite as drunk as Ennis, just took the time to put his coat on.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #50 on: March 19, 2007, 12:10:57 pm »
The Twist house does feel overly stark. I tend to agree though, that Ang Lee did this on purpose. And yes, that ice box should at the very least been a gas or propane fired fridge.

Hey, Westerners, do they use propane refrigerators on ranches? 

Forgive an iggorant Easterner here. ...  ;D

I understand it's common among our Amish population here in Central Pennsylvania for homes to have propane refrigerators so they can have the safety and modern convenience of refrigeration without the "connection to the outside world" of electric power lines, but it never occurred to me that propane fridges might be used on isolated ranches.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #51 on: March 19, 2007, 12:13:28 pm »
Another thing that bugs me a little about this film is the lack of intimacy that is shown between the two actors. Its almost like someone at a meeting said to the writers we can only allow 3 "gay" scenes and the rest of it has to look look straight between them. And what we do get looks very stiff (no pun :D intended) and mechanical. After the Motel scene this movie is so "scrubbed" of "gay" its not funny.  We see no real holding no kissing no cuddling between the actors after that. mostly just bickering and scenes and conversations about there relationship. In the standing sleeping sequence Ennis should have given Jake a soft kiss on the neck or something BUT Nooo that might look To "gay" is how it comes off to me. It appears Universal had a REAL TIGHT leash on the "gayness" of this gay movie.  ;)

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #52 on: March 19, 2007, 01:01:12 pm »
My belief is that the lack of love scenes after the first half of the movie is designed to make the audience vicariously and viscerally feel Ennis' and Jack's deprivation of time together.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #53 on: March 19, 2007, 01:28:01 pm »
Another thing that bugs me a little about this film is the lack of intimacy that is shown between the two actors. Its almost like someone at a meeting said to the writers we can only allow 3 "gay" scenes and the rest of it has to look look straight between them. And what we do get looks very stiff (no pun :D intended) and mechanical. After the Motel scene this movie is so "scrubbed" of "gay" its not funny.  We see no real holding no kissing no cuddling between the actors after that. mostly just bickering and scenes and conversations about there relationship. In the standing sleeping sequence Ennis should have given Jake a soft kiss on the neck or something BUT Nooo that might look To "gay" is how it comes off to me. It appears Universal had a REAL TIGHT leash on the "gayness" of this gay movie.  ;)

My belief is that the lack of love scenes after the first half of the movie is designed to make the audience vicariously and viscerally feel Ennis' and Jack's deprivation of time together.


While I wouldn't be surprised if at some level there was a deliberate decision to downplay the male-male intimacy, I think perhaps the reason for that decision might be up for debate. Generally I agree with Katherine.

If by the "standing sleeping sequence" ("You're sleepin' on your feet like a horse"), you mean what many folks here usually call "the dozy embrace," I think it would have been inappropriate--as in untrue to the source story material--for Ennis to give Jack "a soft kiss on the neck or something." I've always felt it was quite remarkable how much this film is, in fact, true to Annie Proulx. And Ennis is not a man who is comfortable in his own gay skin.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline nic

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #54 on: March 19, 2007, 01:56:44 pm »
....But here's one I have seen with my own eyes, and I've never seen anybody else mention it. During the "happy tussel" after TS2, I see a mule start to walk out from behind a bush, and then what appears to be a man step out and pull the mule back behind the bush. If you're in doubt and want to take a close look without putting in the DVD, check out the scene in "4 Nights in 20 Years":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZTMBth4-lg&search=brokeback

Man alive, that's a bad one - but hard to spot as mostly one is mesmerized by the antics of J & E  ;)  Lucky spurious guy though, he got a closer look & that mule only wanted to join in!

I'll weigh in on the Twist house while I'm here - I don't think it can be categorised as a production mistake.  I think it is artistic licence/an exagerration of the starkness, and it's quite possible that they wouldn't have had "mod cons".  One of my relatives only had an outdoor privvy until the late 90s in central UK & another one was using a tub & mangle to do the laundry into the 80s.  People from earlier generations tended to have more of a frugal lifestyle. 
Old Brokeback got us good and it sure ain't over

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #55 on: March 19, 2007, 02:23:21 pm »
Man alive, that's a bad one - but hard to spot as mostly one is mesmerized by the antics of J & E  ;)  Lucky spurious guy though, he got a closer look & that mule only wanted to join in!

I'll weigh in on the Twist house while I'm here - I don't think it can be categorised as a production mistake.  I think it is artistic licence/an exagerration of the starkness, and it's quite possible that they wouldn't have had "mod cons".  One of my relatives only had an outdoor privvy until the late 90s in central UK & another one was using a tub & mangle to do the laundry into the 80s.  People from earlier generations tended to have more of a frugal lifestyle. 

I take it a "mangle" is what folks in the U.K. call what folks in the U.S. generally call a washboard--like when Alma is scrubbing the clothes when she asks Ennis to wipe Alma, Jr.,'s nose?

Tell you what, though, speaking of modern conveniences reminds me of differences in Ennis and Jack's childhood environment as mentioned in the story. In the motel room in the story, Ennis tells Jack how he got his elder brother to stop beating up on him by ambushing him and beating on him instead, and he clearly mentions an outhouse. The Twists, however, had an indoor bathroom--the location of the infamous episode where Jack's father had urinated on him.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #56 on: March 19, 2007, 02:39:34 pm »
I see a mule start to walk out from behind a bush, and then what appears to be a man step out and pull the mule back behind the bush.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZTMBth4-lg&search=brokeback


That is so wild, after all this time, I had never seen that. Thank you again for sharing.

Now why not reshoot? Maybe the actors had enough? Would they have used stunt doubles for that scene? I think Heath and Jake were the one who jumped off the cliff into the river.

When I first saw the scene I was taken by the silence and shallow depth of field and the sense that this was a "binocular shot" even without the binocular framing.
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #57 on: March 19, 2007, 02:51:36 pm »
That is so wild, after all this time, I had never seen that. Thank you again for sharing.

Now why not reshoot? Maybe the actors had enough? Would they have used stunt doubles for that scene? I think Heath and Jake were the one who jumped off the cliff into the river.

When I first saw the scene I was taken by the silence and shallow depth of field and the sense that this was a "binocular shot" even without the binocular framing.

A very tight budget. Kept the Producers from fixing things.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #58 on: March 19, 2007, 03:15:00 pm »
I think I remember seeing the mule. Next time I'll have to watch for the extra legs.  :laugh:
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #59 on: March 19, 2007, 03:41:35 pm »
I did see the mule and it does appear a man is keeping it back. Of course the mule(s) is suppose to be nearby. And jack would have had to take the mule to the sheep to see Ennis after TS1.
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #60 on: March 19, 2007, 03:49:19 pm »
And jack would have had to take the mule to the sheep to see Ennis after TS1.

 ??? You mean ride the mule? What about his mare?
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #61 on: March 19, 2007, 03:51:55 pm »
Well no, bet he would had to bring them in tow much like we see Ennis do when he goes to the bridge to get supplies. We see the   horses in that scene but not the mules. Just something Jack would of had to do in real life.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 04:32:28 pm by jpwagoneer1964 »
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #62 on: March 19, 2007, 04:25:55 pm »
Hey, Westerners, do they use propane refrigerators on ranches? 

Forgive an iggorant Easterner here. ...  ;D

I understand it's common among our Amish population here in Central Pennsylvania for homes to have propane refrigerators so they can have the safety and modern convenience of refrigeration without the "connection to the outside world" of electric power lines, but it never occurred to me that propane fridges might be used on isolated ranches.
Yes they do make Fridges that run on propane and natural gas. However because we do see electric lamps in the Trist Sr. home you can  assume an electric Fridge would have been appropriate for the setting and after all this sequence is supposed to be 1982/83.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #63 on: March 19, 2007, 04:31:40 pm »
Yes they do make Fridges that run on propane and natural gas. However because we do see electric lamps in the Trist Sr. home you can  assume an electric Fridge would have been appropriate for the setting and after all this sequence is supposed to be 1982/83.

Good point 'bout the 'lectric lights in the Twist house, Ross. I forgot about that!

This talk of propane fridges reminds me that my grandparents' first travel trailer had a little refrigerator that could run on either electricity, if they were in a campground that had electric hookups, or propane, for when no electricity was available.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline nic

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #64 on: March 20, 2007, 05:26:47 am »
I take it a "mangle" is what folks in the U.K. call what folks in the U.S. generally call a washboard--like when Alma is scrubbing the clothes when she asks Ennis to wipe Alma, Jr.,'s nose?

Actually a mangle is/was a set of two rollers through which you pass the wet laundry to wring out as much water as possible.  Could be nasty if you caught your fingers in it!

That's just made me realise that even though they lived upstairs from the laundromat, Alma still did some washing by hand.  Maybe they did a big load in the laundromat now & then but couldn't use it all the time cos of the cost.
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #65 on: March 20, 2007, 08:52:11 am »
Actually a mangle is/was a set of two rollers through which you pass the wet laundry to wring out as much water as possible.  Could be nasty if you caught your fingers in it!

Oooh! A "mangle" is a "wringer"!  ;D When I was little my maternal grandmother had what we called a "wringer washer." It was a washing machine with an electric-powered agitator for washing the clothes, but then you had to manually pass the wet clothes through the "wringer" to wring out the water. The wringer was also electrically powered (in the "old days" I understand you had to crank 'em by hand).

Needless to say, little Jeff Wrangler wasn't allowed anywhere near that electrically powered "wringer."  ;D

These "wringer washers" apparently gave rise to the American expression, "See you in the wash, if I don't get caught in the wringer!"  ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #66 on: March 20, 2007, 10:10:29 am »
These "wringer washers" apparently gave rise to the American expression, "See you in the wash, if I don't get caught in the wringer!"  ;D

Hmm ... Are you sure that's not just a Pennsylvania expression, Jeff?  :laugh: I have heard the expression to "put (someone) through the wringer" as in, to subject them to harsh questioning or reprimanding or an ordeal of some sort.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #67 on: March 20, 2007, 10:30:58 am »
Hmm ... Are you sure that's not just a Pennsylvania expression, Jeff?  :laugh: I have heard the expression to "put (someone) through the wringer" as in, to subject them to harsh questioning or reprimanding or an ordeal of some sort.

I wouldn't know, but last time I checked, Pennsylvania was still in America. They haven't kicked us out--yet--for voting for Kerry.  ;D

Regardless, I'm sure that's where "to put someone through the wringer" came from.

Can you imagine, "to put someone through the mangle"? Eeew. ...  :laugh:
« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 06:32:44 pm by Jeff Wrangler »
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #68 on: March 20, 2007, 09:26:04 pm »
I wouldn't know, but last time I checked, Pennsylvania was still in America. They haven't kicked us out--yet--for voting for Kerry.  ;D

Regardless, I'm sure that's where "to put someone through the wringer" came from.

Can you imagine, "to put someone through the mangle"? Eeew. ...  :laugh:

FYI  a Mangle is different than a wringer  similar, but different. A Mangle can wring but also presses large items such as table cloths and sheets.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 09:29:46 pm by RossInIllinois »

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #69 on: March 21, 2007, 09:04:20 am »
FYI  a Mangle is different than a wringer  similar, but different. A Mangle can wring but also presses large items such as table cloths and sheets.

The way nic used the term, sounds like mainly a size thing. But size does matter. ...  ;)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #70 on: March 21, 2007, 09:20:59 pm »
??? You mean ride the mule? What about his mare?

OH My is that what its called these days?   ;D

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #71 on: March 22, 2007, 05:24:07 am »
The way nic used the term, sounds like mainly a size thing. But size does matter. ...  ;)

you quit tempting me to say naughty stuff!!  >:(

 :laugh: :laugh:

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #72 on: March 22, 2007, 07:45:21 am »
A very tight budget. Kept the Producers from fixing things.

OMG! You mean they had to STAND IT!  LOL! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #73 on: March 22, 2007, 01:47:57 pm »
OMG! You mean they had to STAND IT!  LOL! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

They probably had that on a sign on the wall in the editing room.



Offline Brokeback_Dev

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #74 on: March 29, 2007, 12:30:52 am »
i noticed a mistake.  its when jack and ennis were talking about bull ridin and jacks got his boot in the fire..  ennis said my dad was a fine roper... he thought rodeo cowboys was all fuck ups.  Jack says the hell they are as he takes a swig off the wiskey bottle.   Next he jumps up and starts yelling 'he's kickin me to high heaven...im waving to the girls in the  stands' as he takes off his hat and waves it around.  Somehow magicallly the wiskey bottle is not longer in his hand..  He's laughing and waving his hat lol then he falls over...  ennis says i think my daddy was right..  jack giggles...  so this is the case of he missing wislkey bottle.  Jack never puts the cap on it and sets it down before he jumps up.  just a little something i noticed.

 ;)

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #75 on: March 29, 2007, 08:53:37 am »
i noticed a mistake.  its when jack and ennis were talking about bull ridin and jacks got his boot in the fire..  ennis said my dad was a fine roper... he thought rodeo cowboys was all fuck ups.  Jack says the hell they are as he takes a swig off the wiskey bottle.   Next he jumps up and starts yelling 'he's kickin me to high heaven...im waving to the girls in the  stands' as he takes off his hat and waves it around.  Somehow magicallly the wiskey bottle is not longer in his hand..  He's laughing and waving his hat lol then he falls over...  ennis says i think my daddy was right..  jack giggles...  so this is the case of he missing wislkey bottle.  Jack never puts the cap on it and sets it down before he jumps up.  just a little something i noticed.

 ;)

I've tried to notice whatever happens with that whiskey bottle and I've never been able to catch it.  ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #76 on: March 29, 2007, 04:00:57 pm »
Yes all movies have mistakes but this one seems to be loaded with them.

Offline Brokeback_Dev

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #77 on: March 29, 2007, 05:49:12 pm »

Yes all movies have mistakes but this one seems to be loaded with them.

BUT mistakes or not, Brokeback Mountain is by far the best movie ive ever enjoyed watching.  the story line is great, the acting is great, and even with all its little flaws i think its one of THE best movies of all time!  Beautiful and tragic.  Its the Gone with the Wind of the 21st century :)


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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #78 on: April 01, 2007, 12:21:37 am »
BUT mistakes or not, Brokeback Mountain is by far the best movie ive ever enjoyed watching.  the story line is great, the acting is great, and even with all its little flaws i think its one of THE best movies of all time!  Beautiful and tragic.  Its the Gone with the Wind of the 21st century :)



 I must agree.

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #79 on: April 01, 2007, 09:17:52 am »
I am still pissed they cut my scene! ::) My fingers were brown for a month standing there with that sopping wet coffee filter.  :-X I wished I had ordered a hundred post cards now.
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #80 on: April 02, 2007, 02:12:46 pm »
I am still pissed they cut my scene! ::) My fingers were brown for a month standing there with that sopping wet coffee filter.  :-X I wished I had ordered a hundred post cards now.

You should've. You could sell them postcards a Brokeback Mountain for a lot a money, now. Maybe even clear enough to get out a friggin'-cold Wyomin'. Maybe go some place warm, like Mexico.  ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #81 on: April 03, 2007, 03:33:03 pm »


   With all the memoribilia madness now.  You should have kept the coffee
filters,, probably got something out of them too....and your little holywood obligatory sunglasses too.... maybe even some of jake and heaths butts....the cigarette variety of course...   anything with dna                                         janice



     Beautiful mind

Offline Toast

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #82 on: April 04, 2007, 11:17:21 am »
I hate to admit that there are production errors in Brokeback Mountain, but there are some.  I think it's unfair to say the it's loaded with errors.  If we pick any other movie from the video shop and scrutinize it the way we do Brokeback, then I think we'd be amazed at the errors in these other movies.  We just don't give a damn about most of the scenes or props in most of the movies we see.

However here's one production error I haven't seen presented.

The scene at Aguirre's trailer in the opening sequence:

When Ennis arrives at the trailer (which seems to be facing east) the sun is about 60 degrees overhead - more like 11 am as far as I can tell.
When they enter the trailer the sun is almost overhead, casting shadows straight down the front of the trailer, barely shining on the window sill inside.
When they exit the trailer the shadows are higher (as they should be) and the front of the trailer is almost in its own shade, with little or no direct rays entering the windows.
However - and this is the real production error as far as I can see - while they are in the trailer the sun is pouring into the front windows and crossing the trailer at a 45 degree angle as Annie Proulx described.
So the interior scenes were shot earlier in the day - substantially earlier - than the exterior scenes.

Solution:  Simple - when Ang called "action,"  the least the sun could have done was to assume the correct position.

moremojo

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #83 on: April 04, 2007, 02:08:46 pm »
I hate to admit that there are production errors in Brokeback Mountain, but there are some.  I think it's unfair to say the it's loaded with errors.  If we pick any other movie from the video shop and scrutinize it the way we do Brokeback, then I think we'd be amazed at the errors in these other movies.  We just don't give a damn about most of the scenes or props in most of the movies we see.
Very true. The Rocky Horror Picture Show has been seen dozens, even hundreds of times by many, many people since its 1975 release, and it's brimming with the kinds of continuity errors that have been remarked upon in this thread. The errors have gained such notoriety precisely because the film has been watched so extensively and so often. And The Rocky Horror Picture Show was made on a budget only slightly exceeding one million dollars (very modest funding for a commercial feature, even in 1974 and 1975).

It is the rule rather than the exception that a film will have at least a few errors, and by and large I find them negligible from an artistic point of view. Rather, they serve as reminders that the film in question is a work of artifice, and such reminders do not generally bother me.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #84 on: April 04, 2007, 06:19:29 pm »
Solution:  Simple - when Ang called "action,"  the least the sun could have done was to assume the correct position.


Chortle! At least OUR sun follows directions on the Performance Thread!!
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Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #85 on: April 07, 2007, 12:30:05 pm »
In just viewing the scene. I don't think there was any mistake in the jars of peanuts. Only the outer layers fell, leaving the majority still standing.
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #86 on: April 08, 2007, 02:51:30 am »
I don't think BBM has any more mistakes than any other movie.  A bigger budget isn't a guarantee of anything.

Geez, just go to Amazon and look up 'Pirates of the Carribbean' and just peruse the enormous list of goofs and gaffs and historical anachronisms present.

None of which detracted from my enjoyment of the movie.

I just watched 'Cast Away' with Tom Hanks, a Zemeckis directed film. on TV and there are scenes where it's painfully obvious that a single scene is filmed during differnt times of the day because of shadow and location of the sun.  They can't argue that they were a low budget film and couldn't afford to reshoot for continuity's sake.  That happens in movies from "Lethal Weapon' to "Glory" and probably hundreds of others.  It normally just comes down to the fact that the director like the way the actor looked in this scene in this light better than another.

As for the same cars being parked across the street from Aguirre's trailer a year later when Jack goes back to look for a job...well, I guess my car is a goof too.  I've been working for my company for years and I park in the same spot every day from year to year, too.

I agree with JP, the outer row of peanut jars fell, not the inner ones, so that's not a goof.

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #87 on: April 08, 2007, 11:36:42 pm »
I hate to admit that there are production errors in Brokeback Mountain, but there are some.  I think it's unfair to say the it's loaded with errors.  If we pick any other movie from the video shop and scrutinize it the way we do Brokeback, then I think we'd be amazed at the errors in these other movies.  We just don't give a damn about most of the scenes or props in most of the movies we see.

However here's one production error I haven't seen presented.

The scene at Aguirre's trailer in the opening sequence:

When Ennis arrives at the trailer (which seems to be facing east) the sun is about 60 degrees overhead - more like 11 am as far as I can tell.
When they enter the trailer the sun is almost overhead, casting shadows straight down the front of the trailer, barely shining on the window sill inside.
When they exit the trailer the shadows are higher (as they should be) and the front of the trailer is almost in its own shade, with little or no direct rays entering the windows.
However - and this is the real production error as far as I can see - while they are in the trailer the sun is pouring into the front windows and crossing the trailer at a 45 degree angle as Annie Proulx described.
So the interior scenes were shot earlier in the day - substantially earlier - than the exterior scenes.

Solution:  Simple - when Ang called "action,"  the least the sun could have done was to assume the correct position.

Also the trailer itself is so not period 1963 more like GE mobile Office rentals circa 1980s  ;D

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #88 on: April 08, 2007, 11:40:35 pm »
I don't think BBM has any more mistakes than any other movie.  A bigger budget isn't a guarantee of anything.

Geez, just go to Amazon and look up 'Pirates of the Carribbean' and just peruse the enormous list of goofs and gaffs and historical anachronisms present.

None of which detracted from my enjoyment of the movie.

I just watched 'Cast Away' with Tom Hanks, a Zemeckis directed film. on TV and there are scenes where it's painfully obvious that a single scene is filmed during differnt times of the day because of shadow and location of the sun.  They can't argue that they were a low budget film and couldn't afford to reshoot for continuity's sake.  That happens in movies from "Lethal Weapon' to "Glory" and probably hundreds of others.  It normally just comes down to the fact that the director like the way the actor looked in this scene in this light better than another.

As for the same cars being parked across the street from Aguirre's trailer a year later when Jack goes back to look for a job...well, I guess my car is a goof too.  I've been working for my company for years and I park in the same spot every day from year to year, too.

I agree with JP, the outer row of peanut jars fell, not the inner ones, so that's not a goof.

FYI Lighting issues can be easily fixed by adding lights to counter act loss of sun light or light angle.

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #89 on: April 27, 2007, 11:35:02 am »
Yes all movies have mistakes but this one seems to be loaded with them.

The low budget is a partial explanation for that. But on a trip to LA for a reunion of old classmates in February, I had a long conversation with a Warner Bros. techie who gave me another reason for bloopers being allowed to remain in movies:

There are lots of incidents during movie shoots where the actors in the scene get it exactly right - just right on the button for what the director had in mind; BUT there's some continuity detail that's out of sync, a scarf on a costume is slightly askew, etc. So the director has to make a decision: do we keep re-shooting hoping that lightning will strike a second time or do we run this shot that's perfect in every other detail and just live with the minor blooper? As often as not, they take the second option because acting - and for that matter, technical art such as lighting - is a chancy, mysterious thing. The scene could be re-shot a half-dozen more times, with the consequent increase in production costs and possibly frayed tempers on the set, and the most essential elements still wouldn't work as well.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #90 on: April 27, 2007, 11:58:22 am »
The low budget is a partial explanation for that. But on a trip to LA for a reunion of old classmates in February, I had a long conversation with a Warner Bros. techie who gave me another reason for bloopers being allowed to remain in movies:

There are lots of incidents during movie shoots where the actors in the scene get it exactly right - just right on the button for what the director had in mind; BUT there's some continuity detail that's out of sync, a scarf on a costume is slightly askew, etc. So the director has to make a decision: do we keep re-shooting hoping that lightning will strike a second time or do we run this shot that's perfect in every other detail and just live with the minor blooper? As often as not, they take the second option because acting - and for that matter, technical art such as lighting - is a chancy, mysterious thing. The scene could be re-shot a half-dozen more times, with the consequent increase in production costs and possibly frayed tempers on the set, and the most essential elements still wouldn't work as well.


Great input, Marge!

Ultimately what matters is Heath's performance, not the piece of apple pie on his plate.  :)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline nic

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #91 on: April 27, 2007, 12:14:39 pm »
Thanks for that Marge, never thought of that view before.  I bet it would apply in the majority of cases for BBM rather than sloppiness, and many could be attributed to the low budget so ultimately BBM is nearly perfect once you have accounted in this way! 

I still can't get over why the wrong ending got in on the final edit  :laugh:
Old Brokeback got us good and it sure ain't over

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #92 on: April 27, 2007, 05:15:03 pm »
There are lots of incidents during movie shoots where the actors in the scene get it exactly right - just right on the button for what the director had in mind; BUT there's some continuity detail that's out of sync, a scarf on a costume is slightly askew, etc. So the director has to make a decision: do we keep re-shooting hoping that lightning will strike a second time or do we run this shot that's perfect in every other detail and just live with the minor blooper? As often as not, they take the second option because acting - and for that matter, technical art such as lighting - is a chancy, mysterious thing. The scene could be re-shot a half-dozen more times, with the consequent increase in production costs and possibly frayed tempers on the set, and the most essential elements still wouldn't work as well.
This might give some insight into the motives of late director Stanley Kubrick, who was infamous for the numerous takes he would shoot of every little scene. A perfectionist such as he must have wanted everything to be ideal, from the performances he desired to how a picture might be hung on a wall.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #93 on: April 28, 2007, 10:39:13 am »
Tell you what, this hardly qualifies as a "production mistake," but the preceding posts have reminded me that I've secretly--or maybe not so secretly--harbored the suspicion that the real reason we see Jack warshin' those clothes wearin' nuthin' but his boots (though we don't really see anything) is because we've already seen Ennis warshin' ever'thin' he could reach wearin' nuthin' but his hat (though we don't really see anything there, either).

In other words--one star gets a nude scene, the other one has to have one, too.

Same deal with seeing both Michelle and Anne topless. One has a topless scene, the other has to have one, too.

Ooops, do I sound cynical?
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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #94 on: April 28, 2007, 04:45:17 pm »
I still can't get over why the wrong ending got in on the final edit  :laugh:

That depends on your view of what the "right" ending is. Morbid sore-picking has never exactly been my thing.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #95 on: April 28, 2007, 06:31:47 pm »
In other words--one star gets a nude scene, the other one has to have one, too.

Same deal with seeing both Michelle and Anne topless. One has a topless scene, the other has to have one, too.

Ooops, do I sound cynical?

Do you mean that if one star gets a nude scene, the other star insists on being nude, too? Or do you mean that if one star gets a nude scene, that same star insists that his/her counterpart has to be nude somewhere in the movie, too?

So did Heath win or lose when he was the only star jumping off the cliff?  :laugh:

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #96 on: April 28, 2007, 10:42:14 pm »
Do you mean that if one star gets a nude scene, the other star insists on being nude, too? Or do you mean that if one star gets a nude scene, that same star insists that his/her counterpart has to be nude somewhere in the movie, too?

Maybe the actors have nothing to do with it, or no say about it. They obviously didn't object because they did the scenes. I guess these are just two more sets of bookends: Naked Heath and naked Jake; topless Anne and topless Michelle.

Quote
So did Heath win or lose when he was the only star jumping off the cliff?  :laugh:

That would depend on your point of view, I guess. Didn't I read somewhere that it was contractual obligations because of other film commitments that prevented Jake from making the jump?
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #97 on: April 29, 2007, 11:31:44 am »
Do you mean that if one star gets a nude scene, the other star insists on being nude, too? Or do you mean that if one star gets a nude scene, that same star insists that his/her counterpart has to be nude somewhere in the movie, too?

It might have been just a matter of keeping a 'balance.' As for them jumping off the cliff - if it were up to me I'd never have let either of them do it. Even a sprained ankle could have thrown a monkey wrench into the shooting schedule for days.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #98 on: April 29, 2007, 11:54:58 am »
Didn't I read somewhere that it was contractual obligations because of other film commitments that prevented Jake from making the jump?

I think I read Jake was chicken.  ;D But Marge is right, it was risky to let Heath do it.



Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #99 on: April 30, 2007, 06:25:15 pm »
It might have been just a matter of keeping a 'balance.'

That's it exactly.  :)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #100 on: April 30, 2007, 07:59:56 pm »
It might have been just a matter of keeping a 'balance.' As for them jumping off the cliff - if it were up to me I'd never have let either of them do it. Even a sprained ankle could have thrown a monkey wrench into the shooting schedule for days.

Who knows?  None of the actors were star-caliber enough to be insisting on anything in their contracts.  Now, of all them, I understand the women the most.  Anne wanting to break out of her teen/children movie rep, what better way to do it?  Michelle is right up there with wanting to break out of her TV persona.  It's harder to determine the men's motives.  Enough stars have said 'If my face isn't going to show, why do a nude/action scene?'  I heard Jake was scared of heights as well to jump off the ledge, but he also was still shooting or in pre-production on 'Jarhead' wasn't he?  So insurance on that much bigger budget movie that required Jake to be very physical might have constrained any physical risk-taking on BBM.

Offline David

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #101 on: April 30, 2007, 08:51:31 pm »
I'm surprized nobody mentioned the missing sideburns on Ennis?

There is a quick scene of Ennis at work tossing bales of hay to the cows and he has no sideburns!     Oops!

Offline belbbmfan

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #102 on: May 02, 2007, 12:40:30 pm »
I'm surprized nobody mentioned the missing sideburns on Ennis?

There is a quick scene of Ennis at work tossing bales of hay to the cows and he has no sideburns!     Oops!

OMG, i never noticed this. But you're right. Those (awful) sideburns are missing in that scene. Make up mistake? Or maybe they intended this scene to be earlier in the movie?  ???

Oops indeed.
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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #103 on: May 02, 2007, 03:42:35 pm »
OMG, i never noticed this. But you're right. Those (awful) sideburns are missing in that scene. Make up mistake? Or maybe they intended this scene to be earlier in the movie?  ???

Oops indeed.
I also find it interesting that this is the last time in the film, with the exception of the dozy embrace flashback, that we see Ennis wearing the off-white cowboy hat that he wore in Signal and up on the mountain. Previous to this, we last see the hat in the grocery-story scene. So maybe the haybaling scene was shot as an earlier scene than what it actually ended up as.

Offline Phillip Dampier

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IMDb Goof List
« Reply #104 on: May 07, 2007, 03:40:50 pm »
Goofs for Brokeback Mountain (IMDb)

[These are submitted by individuals, so I don't know if this is completely reliable.  I thought, for example, the Steve Earle song mentioned below had a faster paced version recorded in the 1970s, and that is what appeared in the film.]

    Crew or equipment visible: When Ennis tells Alma that he and Jack are going fishing, he hands Alma Jr. to her. While in her mother's arms, Junior's pajama top hikes up and you can see her microphone cord.

    Continuity: Jack is chopping wood when Aguirre approaches to give news of his sick uncle. Jack places the next log on the chopping block as he turns to speak to Aguirre. After the conversation is over and Jack turns back to chopping, the log is gone and he replaces the log that was never chopped.

    Anachronisms: When Cassie dances with Ennis the first time, the jukebox is playing Steve Earle's "The Devil's Right Hand". In the movie it is set in the late-'70s, but that song wasn't released until his album Copperhead Road came out in 1988. Steve Earle wrote the song in the late 70's. It was one of his earliest. There are two versions. The raw, less produced version with a young Steve Earle appears in the movie version. It was released on an album called early tracks in 1987. The studio enhanced version appeared on Copperhead Road in 1988.

    Factual errors: Early in the film (1963, Wyoming) a train is seen crossing the screen without a caboose. Cabooses were required by law on all trains into the 1980s.

    Continuity: During Jack's first and second bull rides, his free hand alternates several times from being his left or right hand. Since he's obviously not letting go to switch hands, either some shots are flipped or the sequence is edited from several takes.

    Continuity: When Ennis and Alma are playing in the snow after sledding down the mountain, Ennis's hat is covering/not covering his ears between shots.

    Anachronisms: When Ennis was driving his daughter Alma home from the bar where Alma and his waitress girlfriend have met, along the path in the background was a Dodge Neon. This can be seen through the window. Alongside the Dodge Neon was a RV or trailer car. These had not been introduced yet.

    Anachronisms: When Ennis gets into a fight in front of the bar after leaving Alma's house on Thanksgiving, the "Budweiser" neon light in the window of the bar is one of the newer logos. The italic logo was introduced in the late 1990s.

    Continuity: When Jack is in Mexico, the same boy (in a blue striped shirt) runs behind him twice.

    Continuity: When Ennis and Jack are fighting on the hill, the day they leave, and Jack knees Ennis in the nose, he gets up to help him. He puts his hands on Ennis' shoulders, but in the next shot, his right wrist is being used to soak up the blood from Ennis' bloody nose.

    Anachronisms: Leading up to the argument that sparks the Del Mar divorce, Ennis is lounging on the couch watching an episode of Kojak and Alma states that it is Saturday night. Kojak didn't air on Saturday nights until its 5th season (Fall '77 to Spring '78) and the judge reveals to us that the Del Mar divorce takes place on November 6th, 1975.

    Anachronisms: Ennis gets a postcard from Jack which reads, "Ennis, see you in a couple weeks, fish should be jumping. Jack." The postmark is from Childress, Texas, dated July 1972. A couple of weeks later, Jack is driving a blue Ford truck. Ford only produced this specific truck grill in 1976 and 1977. In a following scene, Ennis and Alma's divorce is granted 6 November 1975. The blue truck should not appear in a 1972 scene.

    Continuity: Supermarket scene. An end row of bottles is hit/broken. When the camera moves back, the bottles are again upright and intact.

    Anachronisms: When Junior drives to her father's trailer to announce her wedding, as gets out of her car we can hear a beeping sound (warning the driver that a door is open). Such features were not introduced in cars until much later.

    Anachronisms: The tractor trailer rigs are too modern for the time period. At the beginning of the movie the tractor used in the film wasn't the kind rolling along the highways in the 1960s.

    Miscellaneous: The first post card from Jack is postmarked CHILDRESS TX SEPT 1967. The second from Jack is postmarked AUG 1972, also with the date not indicated. Postmarks always have the month, day and year, not just the month and year.

    Continuity: The first postcard from Jack has no address. The only clue to his address is the post mark. Yet when Ennis writes back, he addresses his card to RFD 2, Childress, Texas. He would have had no way of knowing Jack's rural route number.

    Audio/visual unsynchronized: When Ennis says, "I can't stand this any more, Jack," he is crying, but his lips are not moving.

    Continuity: Ennis, standing in the river washing a coffee pot with a rag, pauses to look up and spots Jack on horseback in the distance on a mountainside. Ennis then slings the washrag over his right shoulder and starts to exit the river. In the next scene, as he exits the river onto the riverbank, the washrag is gone from his shoulder and back to being held in his right hand.

    Miscellaneous: During the hail storm scene on Brokeback Mountain, although one can hear the wind blowing very hard, the trees in the distance remain still.

    Continuity: When Jack rides into camp complaining that he is "commutin' four hours a day" he takes off one glove, the one on his left hand, to feel the coffee pot. It then shows him drinking coffee with his left hand and the right hand glove is still on and he is holding the glove from the left hand with his right hand. When Ennis says (the second time) "I wouldn't mind being out there" it shows Jack with the coffee cup still in his left hand but the glove from his right hand is now off.

    Miscellaneous: In approximately 1967, four years after the time line of the movie begins, there is a scene in which Ennis and Alma are talking in the kitchen of their apartment. In one scene you see her put down a folded newspaper on the table and there is a close-up of the newspaper. It is an advertisement for Carl Budding lunch meat, two for 99 cents. You can find those kinds of deals today, so in 1967/68 that would have been a lot of money.

    Anachronisms: When Jack is at the bar, turning around to eye Lureen, just before she approaches him for the first time, soft contact lens are visible in his eyes.

    Continuity: At the beginning of the movie where we first see Jack Twist driving up in his truck, the window on the passenger side is up as evidenced by the reflections off the glass. Then as the truck turns into the parking lot, the same window is now down.

    Factual errors: The first reunion of Jack and Ennis is on 24th September 1967. On the next day 25th, they went onto the mountains and at that night there was a full moon. However, the full moon of September 1967 should be at 18th day, not 24th or 25th.

    Audio/visual unsynchronized: When Jack rides the bull (at the same rodeo where he meets Lureen), he is thrown to the ground before the eight-second buzzer sounds. Had this been real life, he would receive a no-score.

    Continuity: Towards the end of the movie when Alma Jr. visits her dad in his trailer, he goes to the cupboard to get them a drink and cups. The cupboard door at Ennis' head is seen alternately opened and closed without him touching it.

    Crew or equipment visible: When they are being viewed from a far as they play with their shirts off, on the far left there is filming equipment visible within the trees.
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: IMDb Goof List
« Reply #105 on: May 08, 2007, 08:55:33 am »
Goofs for Brokeback Mountain (IMDb)

[These are submitted by individuals, so I don't know if this is completely reliable.  I thought, for example, the Steve Earle song mentioned below had a faster paced version recorded in the 1970s, and that is what appeared in the film.]


These are all interesting. I'm glad somebody besides me noticed the lack of a caboose on the train  ;D . Possibly railroad union contracts/work rules that mandated the number of people on a train crew may have had something to do with making cabooses a necessity in 1963.

Now, really, who on earth is sharp enough, sitting in a theater watching a movie, to tell that Jake is even wearing contact lenses, let along soft ones?  :laugh:
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Offline southendmd

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Re: IMDb Goof List
« Reply #106 on: May 08, 2007, 09:00:20 am »
These are all interesting. I'm glad somebody besides me noticed the lack of a caboose on the train  ;D . Possibly railroad union contracts/work rules that mandated the number of people on a train crew may have had something to do with making cabooses a necessity in 1963.

Now, really, who on earth is sharp enough, sitting in a theater watching a movie, to tell that Jake is even wearing contact lenses, let along soft ones?  :laugh:

Jeff, I may know nothing about no cabooses, but I did notice Jake's contact lens.

I guess we all focus on different things; I was more focused on Jake's caboose.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: IMDb Goof List
« Reply #107 on: May 08, 2007, 09:20:58 am »
Jeff, I may know nothing about no cabooses, but I did notice Jake's contact lens.


Well, good for you. My eyes are only sharp enough to notice Heath's lack of underwear lines.
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Offline Kelda

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Re: IMDb Goof List
« Reply #108 on: May 11, 2007, 07:40:16 am »
These are all interesting. I'm glad somebody besides me noticed the lack of a caboose on the train  ;D . Possibly railroad union contracts/work rules that mandated the number of people on a train crew may have had something to do with making cabooses a necessity in 1963.


You know I've read the IMDB pages a good few times and every time I read that I always assumed you had submitted it to IMDB Jeff! But now I know you didn't!!
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: IMDb Goof List
« Reply #109 on: May 11, 2007, 08:53:24 am »
You know I've read the IMDB pages a good few times and every time I read that I always assumed you had submitted it to IMDB Jeff! But now I know you didn't!!

That's correct. I have to plead innocent on the caboose. I've mentioned it a couple of places, but I never submitted it to IMDb.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Kd5000

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #110 on: May 16, 2007, 01:08:38 pm »
Well I don't know who does the research for goofs on IMDBcom. I wonder if it gets updated? Obviously the movie triva about BBM being referenced in a Simpsons episode is newere information.

 They now have a FAQ section which changes.  The "What happened to Jack Twist" question is gone and now the FAQ is "Were the sex scenes simulated?" Now that's a stupid question.  They use to have 5 or 6 faq's and now they just have one.   They have also added a "moviemeter" which indicates a film's weekly popularity. Have to be a premium subscriber to find out what that is about.

Offline Cameron

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #111 on: June 11, 2007, 12:06:44 am »
I noticed a new one of these last night when I watched parts of the film real carefully.  I have never read anything about this one anyplace, but I almost wish that I didn't see it.

In scene on the mountain when Ennis watches Jack when the horse is spinning around, you can clearly see a man next to the horse who quickly steps back in the bushes. He is clear as day. 

I also think their is someone  next to Jack's horse in the DE, but I am afraid to look to carefully because I don't want to see him, but the man in the earlier scene is right there.



mvansand76

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #112 on: June 11, 2007, 10:23:04 am »
I noticed a new one of these last night when I watched parts of the film real carefully.  I have never read anything about this one anyplace, but I almost wish that I didn't see it.

In scene on the mountain when Ennis watches Jack when the horse is spinning around, you can clearly see a man next to the horse who quickly steps back in the bushes. He is clear as day. 

I also think their is someone  next to Jack's horse in the DE, but I am afraid to look to carefully because I don't want to see him, but the man in the earlier scene is right there.

Aaaah really? *jumps up and down* yeeeh another reason to watch the first half of the movie again!

 :D

Offline Cameron

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #113 on: June 11, 2007, 06:44:38 pm »
Yep, I guess you have to watch the beginning again to see him.  He's there, all the way on the right side.  Sorry that you have to do this, Mel. ;D

But I am relieved, there is no man way in the back near the horse during the DE, it was just the horse. ::)



Offline Cameron

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #114 on: June 14, 2007, 06:00:51 pm »
I think I may have been wrong about this one too, it may have just been the mule. ::)

But I still wonder what happened to Ennis' blanket in TS1, where did it go?



mvansand76

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #115 on: June 15, 2007, 06:40:37 am »
I think I may have been wrong about this one too, it may have just been the mule. ::)

But I still wonder what happened to Ennis' blanket in TS1, where did it go?

I watched it and I think it was the mule, yes!  :-\

Offline Cameron

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #116 on: June 15, 2007, 05:16:50 pm »
Yeah, I watched it on tape, that's why I thought it was a man, but it was the mule.

Sorry, Mel, that you had to watch the beginning again. ;)



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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #117 on: February 28, 2008, 11:58:24 pm »
Do you think that maybe placing Lureen as a lesbian or not was a mistake?

Indirectly or directly?

In the BM movie,

hugs!

mvansand76

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #118 on: February 29, 2008, 07:34:26 am »
Do you think that maybe placing Lureen as a lesbian or not was a mistake?

Indirectly or directly?

In the BM movie,

hugs!

WTF?  ???

Offline Katie77

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #119 on: February 29, 2008, 10:13:36 am »
At least this thread got bumped......its very interesting..
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Offline souxi

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #120 on: February 29, 2008, 10:57:42 am »
Do you think that maybe placing Lureen as a lesbian or not was a mistake?

Indirectly or directly?

In the BM movie,

hugs!

Oh for Christs sake Artiste don,t start all that again about Laureen being a Lesbian, ffs.  ::) ::) ::) ::)

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #121 on: February 29, 2008, 11:55:32 am »
I just discovered this thread and I'm delighted to find it.

Of course nothing is perfect and our beloved movie Brokeback Mountain has its flaws, some continuity flaws, some verisimilitude flaws, sometimes the films is so faithful to the ss with "set design" that there "appear" to be flaws. Overall though, I think that we all agree, the film  works very well.

just off the top of my head without looking at some notes now almost a year old that I made while discussing the film with me sister I noted:

1) the model K-W cattle truck Ennis rode into Signal was not manufactured until the late 1970's

2) the street lights that you see throughout the film were not in use in the 1960's

3) Jack and Ennis needed lanterns if they were camping out, in the ss AP gave them lanterns, they would have had them in real life

4) notice the boys haircuts and beards, they pretty much stay the same all the while on the mountain, that wouldn't have been the case in real life. Also note Jack's hairline around his ear, the hair cut is the same before he married Lureen and after. That would not have been the case in real life. Prosperous men in that time frame in rural Texas towns (Childress) went to the barber once per week, and came away with what was called "white walls", hair clipped closely around ears. Ennis's hair before and after marriage probably is correct, as a poor ranch hand out in the sticks couldn't afford to drive in constantly to get his "ears lowered".

5) note the axe Jack was using in the scene when Aguirre rode up to camp advising Jack of Uncle Harold's condition - a major continuity error on the part of Ang Lee

6) where is the dog food? those sheep dogs have to eat! 

7) note the hood on Jack's truck after Ennis helped him start it after shovedown - a major continuity error on the part of Ang Lee

8. in the scene where Jack is in the bar in Electra,TX (1965) : note the "Coors" taps at the bar, Coors was not sold in Texas until after the 1970's, some licensing agreement dispute that was finally resolved well after the setting of the film

9) note the hair length and beard of the bar tender in Electra, unusual to say the least for anyone living in a small rural town in TX in the mid 1960's

10) note the steel sided barns in the scene of the rodeo in Childress - that style of prefab building was not sold until much later in time, barns in that time period would have not been prefab and the look would have been rather different

11) note the pine trees behind the rodeo stands in the Childress scene - Childress is on the edge of the TX Panhandle, there are no groves of Pinetrees in the area, there are hardly any trees at all, except for Mesquite and some planted Cottonwoods and Liveoaks. it was obviously filmed in Canada

12) note the hair styles and beards and the eye glasses frames of some of the men who are watching Jack get his 8 seconds ride, those style would not have been characteristic of rural TX in the mid 1960's

13) when Ennis brings Junior and her baby sister for Alma to baby sit while Ennis goes off to his job, notice how the baby will start crying and a spit second later will be perfectly calm, this is repeated over and over in the scene. baby's moods change rapidly, but their little scrunched up pouting faces don't change that rapidly - this was obviously filmed over and over again and not edited well, perhaps that is why the baby actor gets cross!

14) note the post office in Riverton when Ennis first send Jack a card, no zip code on the building sign, this scene was set in 1967 several years after all US posts office's were mandated to incorporate zip coding and change their signs. the exact year of universal mandatory zip coding was 1964.

15) note the jet airplane apparently taking off crossing the path backscene of Jake in the scene later where he is showing the local yokels how the features and benefits of LD's new combine. Childress did not at that time have an airport designed to accommodate a jet aircraft.

16) the interior of OMT's home has been discussed earlier, and I echo the sentiments of those who also feel that is unrealistic. Mother Twist would have decorated that house with every little religious Jesus object and plaque she could find space for. Mother Twist would have had some plants and a colorful decorative table cloth as well, she had to show here individuality in the face of the tyrant OMT in some way.  The white, white everywhere color scheme would drive anyone snow blind by itself. Jack's room is touching but unrealistic, unless mother Twist deliberately redecorated it to resemble the room as Jack would have had in while he was a preteen.

just off the top of my head, I'll review my note from long ago and see if I missed anything.
 
« Last Edit: March 01, 2008, 05:15:50 pm by brokeplex »

Offline belbbmfan

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #122 on: February 29, 2008, 12:09:10 pm »
Wow, there are many in your post that I hadn't heard of before. And 'having their ears lowered'?  :laugh: That's a new one for me. Thanks. And I've never thought about the dog food. Maybe they gave them beans too.  ;)

Yeah, the axe that one was very obvious. And the glass jars being mysteriously restacked after little Alma knocks them over was a give away too.



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Offline brokeplex

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #123 on: March 01, 2008, 05:09:54 pm »
I looked at the notes I gathered some time ago and this is what I found in addition to what I listed above. These also that may or may not have been errors in the film.

1) TS1 - "the mysterious laces" that tie and untie themselves

a - when Jack is trying to sleep alone, the laces are shown to be tied
b - Jack unties the laces when he yells at Ennis to get inside the tent
c- Ennis comes into the tent, covers up and lies back down, he is not shown retying the laces or for that matter having the time to do so
d- But, when the boys start their nookies, the laces are shown as tied again
e- when Ennis wakes up the flaps are again untied

2) I think that someone else noticed that there is no caboose on the small freight train that whistles thru Signal

3) the camera shows that both boys have their ear lobes pierced, 1960's WY ranch stiffs just didn't pierce their ears!

4) In the Motel Siesta scene, you can notice a cell phone satellite relay tower behind the motel, in 1967 I don't think that there would have been such a tower in Riverton, WY

5) In the introduction after the title, notice that as Ennis walks into town he passes the back of a hazard/info sign has a collapsable hinged undersection. those types of signs were not in use in the early 1960's. they are in usage everywhere now.

6) In the Aguirre trailer scenes, notice that the venetian blinds appear to be of modern manufacture, they use a control handle to open and close the louvers rather than the pulley type cords used in old fashioned blinds.

7) Red sheep / Blue sheep - notice that when the boys are taking the sheep up to their pastures, there are sheep with blue paint markings mixed in with sheep who have red "x" marks on them, looks like the sheep were already mixed before the big hail storm.

8. Pretty teeth - the boys have perfectly pretty white teeth all the way thru the film, no sign of staining even after 20 years from coffee, whiskey, and those godawful cigarettes.

9) The disappearing coffee pot- when Ennis drunkenly gets up to go into the tent (and was Ennis really that drunk?) he brushes against the coffee pot, later when the camera pans outside the tent to show the campfire site again after their nookies, the coffee pot is missing.

10) Hail Storm - when a very rapidly moving hail storm sweeps into their camp site, while the hail is falling and the wind is gusting,if you look at the clouds they are not moving at all. must have been CGI 'd

11) Post card cancellation stamps - in 1967 and 1972 neither show an exact date in violation of USP regs, and no zip codes, again in violation of postal regs. Uniformity in zip code regs was required everywhere by 1967.

12) High Prices - the prices in the insert ad that Alma uses to cover Jacks 1972 post card shows some higher prices than would have been in 1972 ; "Carl Buddig" sandwich meat at 2 pkgs  for 99 cents, way too high for the times.

13) In the Juarez, Mex scene - the same little boy crosses in back of Jack twice as Jack enters the "red light" alley

14) In the dance hall scene set in the late 1970's where Ennis and Cassie are dancing to "Melissa" a woman dancing next to them has extensive tattooing on her back and arms. This type of tattooing in the general pop would not become popular until the '90's and in this decade. It is still not popular with me.

15) During the drive back to Junior's house with Ennis following the above scene, Ennis's truck passes what appears to be a 2003 or 2004 Ford Focus.

16) The End Titles - although not errors, have raised some questions :

 a- lists a waitress as played by Valerie Planche, the only waitress I saw was an extra in the first bar scene in Signal, why the decision to name her in the credits?

b- lists two roughnecks as played by Ken Zilka and John Tench - I saw only one roughneck who beats the crap out of Ennis after the Thanksgiving scene, where is the second one.

c- lists the three assailants in Jack's murder scene - those were parts for extras, why list them?

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #124 on: March 01, 2008, 05:15:00 pm »
Wow, there are many in your post that I hadn't heard of before. And 'having their ears lowered':laugh: That's a new one for me. Thanks. And I've never thought about the dog food. Maybe they gave them beans too.  ;)

Yeah, the axe that one was very obvious. And the glass jars being mysteriously restacked after little Alma knocks them over was a give away too.



"the ears lowered" is just something my dad always said,

the axe and the block of wood is so obvious that I am puzzled this wasn't changed in 'continuity' and editing. the famous block of wood that Jack is about to chop mysteriously transports off the stump back onto the ground, during Jack's conversation with Aguirre

the truck hood faux pas is equally obvious, when Ennis slams the hood down it is not completely shut, but when Jack drives away it is shut tight.

I'm glad that you noticed the mysterious peanut cleanup, I didn't and you are correct.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #125 on: March 01, 2008, 07:10:22 pm »
Quote
the truck hood faux pas is equally obvious, when Ennis slams the hood down it is not completely shut, but when Jack drives away it is shut tight.



Glad that you noticed that too!

But why is it turned? It was NOT like that direction when he drove in.... remember?

Hugs!

Offline Fran

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #126 on: March 01, 2008, 07:55:27 pm »

Glad that you noticed that too!

But why is it turned? It was NOT like that direction when he drove in.... remember?

Hugs!

Artiste,

Jack and Ennis didn't go up the mountain until the following morning.  Joe Aguirre said, "Tomorrow mornin' we'll truck you up to the jump-off."  After they left Aguirre's trailer, Jack and Ennis walked over to the bar in Signal and spent some time there.  But they had lots of time to kill until the next morning.  While it's not shown in the film, it's conceivable that Jack (either with or without Ennis) took the truck for a drive -- maybe to get something to eat or to see if there was anything going on in Signal -- and backed it into the parking space when he returned. 

Offline Artiste

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #127 on: March 01, 2008, 08:18:45 pm »
Thanks Fran!

What you say makes sense!

I wonder if anyone on set knows? Or Annie wrote something about that?


Hugs!

Offline BBM-Cat

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #128 on: March 01, 2008, 08:51:33 pm »
1) TS1 - "the mysterious laces" that tie and untie themselves
d- But, when the boys start their nookies, the laces are shown as tied again

Perhaps while we were all focused on the quick-release of his belt buckle, that wily Jack used his other hand to expeditiously tie the flaps so Ennis could not escape!  ;D
Six-word Stories:  ~Jack: Lightning Flat, lightning love, flat denied   ~Ennis: Open space: flat tire, tire iron?

Offline Artiste

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #129 on: March 01, 2008, 09:04:02 pm »
Wow!

Quote
  Perhaps while we were all focused on the quick-release of his belt buckle, that wily Jack used his other hand to expeditiously tie the flaps so Ennis could not escape!   

Can we see that again?

Any clip of it to add here??

Hugs!

Offline Katie77

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #130 on: March 02, 2008, 12:35:03 am »
I remember asking about the dog food one other time......and someone mentioned that it may have been food for the dogs, that Jack put in the sack that he strung up when they set up camp.....
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Offline Katie77

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #131 on: March 02, 2008, 12:37:15 am »
And about the white teeth.......I noticed how nice the teeth were on those ruffiens who Ennis argued with at the fireworks.......they just didn't look the type that would have such nice teeth.
Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect.

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Offline forsythia12

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #132 on: March 02, 2008, 01:11:00 am »

1) TS1 - "the mysterious laces" that tie and untie themselves

a - when Jack is trying to sleep alone, the laces are shown to be tied
b - Jack unties the laces when he yells at Ennis to get inside the tent
c- Ennis comes into the tent, covers up and lies back down, he is not shown retying the laces or for that matter having the time to do so
d- But, when the boys start their nookies, the laces are shown as tied again
e- when Ennis wakes up the flaps are again untied





maybe aguirre was sneakin' in for a closer look while the boys were busy? ;D

wow guys.  i never noticed this stuff before, and i thought i'd watched the movie a million times.  maybe i was in denial and didn't want to see mistakes.
i'm almost scared to watch the movie again now! :o
lol

Offline louisev

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #133 on: March 02, 2008, 01:22:48 am »

16) the interior of OMT's home has been discussed earlier, and I echo the sentiments of those who also feel that is unrealistic. Mother Twist would have decorated that house with every little religious Jesus object and plaque she could find space for. Mother Twist would have had some plants and a colorful decorative table cloth as well, she had to show here individuality in the face of the tyrant OMT in some way.  The white, white everywhere color scheme would drive anyone snow blind by itself. Jack's room is touching but unrealistic, unless mother Twist deliberately redecorated it to resemble the room as Jack would have had in while he was a preteen.
 
 

I don't understand this at all.  I am familiar with three sects of Protestantism, and all of them have in common an aversion to 'Jesus objects.'  My mother's family used to deride the Catholics who moved into our neighborhood for their 'idolatry', and images of Jesus and Mary, because it was against their sect's precepts to wear crosses or to have images of Jesus or Mary, even on and in  their churches.  The religious objects in the Twist home are what I have seen in the PRotestant homes among which I grew up: a simple biblical homily on the wall such as 'Bless this house' and a simple unadored cross.  That is what my grandparents had in their house, or a Desiderata, and one simple cross.

And, having had family who were old style settlers, their farmhouses were as unadorned and stark as the one pictured in the Twist household.  I don't know how you can chalk up to 'production mistakes' items that to me, belonging to a long line of Protestant believers, seems to match pretty exactly.

A 'mistake' is something like Jack straightening up from a shot where he places a piece of wood, and in the next shot, the piece of wood he has not touched has magically vanished, which I noticed today... or the hood of the truck being ajar in the first shot and being firmly closed in the next shot with no one closing it.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline louisev

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Re: IMDb Goof List
« Reply #134 on: March 02, 2008, 01:33:41 am »
Well, good for you. My eyes are only sharp enough to notice Heath's lack of underwear lines.

no drawers no socks.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline southendmd

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #135 on: March 02, 2008, 02:19:31 pm »
Regarding the credits listing so-called "extras", I believe early versions of the script had speaking scenes for some of them; specifically the waitress in Signal and the assailants.  I don't know the rules about their inclusion in credits if their scenes eventually get cut. 

Interestingly, some early sources used to list the cast including Valerie Planche, as if she were some major star; when in actuality, the actors were listed in order of appearance (or non-appearance as the case may be).

Tatoo girl really does stand out.  Very odd choice of casting.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #136 on: March 02, 2008, 07:57:09 pm »
Artiste,

Jack and Ennis didn't go up the mountain until the following morning.  Joe Aguirre said, "Tomorrow mornin' we'll truck you up to the jump-off."  After they left Aguirre's trailer, Jack and Ennis walked over to the bar in Signal and spent some time there.  But they had lots of time to kill until the next morning.  While it's not shown in the film, it's conceivable that Jack (either with or without Ennis) took the truck for a drive -- maybe to get something to eat or to see if there was anything going on in Signal -- and backed it into the parking space when he returned. 

 

As I recall when Jack and Ennis are trying to get Jack's truck started it is parked not in the parking lot of Aguirre's trailer, but in front of an adjacent garage. I think that we can assume that Aguirre would not wish for Jack's beat up truck to be parked in his lot next to the other junk rusting truck that was already there, he probably had Jack park the truck in a garage and charge him rent.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #137 on: March 02, 2008, 07:58:04 pm »
Perhaps while we were all focused on the quick-release of his belt buckle, that wily Jack used his other hand to expeditiously tie the flaps so Ennis could not escape!  ;D

 ;D  best answer I've heard yet!

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #138 on: March 02, 2008, 08:01:05 pm »
I remember asking about the dog food one other time......and someone mentioned that it may have been food for the dogs, that Jack put in the sack that he strung up when they set up camp.....

not enough space in the packs carried by the mules to haul up enough food for those dogs and some feed for the horses too ! And where did Ennis keep the dog food up in the pastures?  I  never saw them feed the dogs. I'm just worrying about the dogs, that is all  ???

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #139 on: March 02, 2008, 08:01:45 pm »
And about the white teeth.......I noticed how nice the teeth were on those ruffiens who Ennis argued with at the fireworks.......they just didn't look the type that would have such nice teeth.

good point!  ;)

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #140 on: March 02, 2008, 08:05:38 pm »

maybe aguirre was sneakin' in for a closer look while the boys were busy? ;D

wow guys.  i never noticed this stuff before, and i thought i'd watched the movie a million times.  maybe i was in denial and didn't want to see mistakes.
i'm almost scared to watch the movie again now! :o
lol

let not your heart be troubled,

the film is still the masterpiece that it always has been. just about every movie has a continuity error or two and costume dramas always get hit with verisimilitude errors. I am a Hitchcock nut, and my fav Hitch movie of all time, and up there in the top 5 of all my fav films ,is "Vertigo". In Veritigo there is a continuity error that always make Hitch nuts like me LOL! These errors in BM just make me love the movie all the more, it has flaws just like I do!

Offline Katie77

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #141 on: March 02, 2008, 08:07:27 pm »
not enough space in the packs carried by the mules to haul up enough food for those dogs and some feed for the horses too ! And where did Ennis keep the dog food up in the pastures?  I  never saw them feed the dogs. I'm just worrying about the dogs, that is all  ???

Maybe it was the starving dogs that killed that sheep Ennis found after TS1.
Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect.

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Offline brokeplex

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #142 on: March 02, 2008, 08:18:54 pm »
I don't understand this at all.  I am familiar with three sects of Protestantism, and all of them have in common an aversion to 'Jesus objects.'  My mother's family used to deride the Catholics who moved into our neighborhood for their 'idolatry', and images of Jesus and Mary, because it was against their sect's precepts to wear crosses or to have images of Jesus or Mary, even on and in  their churches.  The religious objects in the Twist home are what I have seen in the PRotestant homes among which I grew up: a simple biblical homily on the wall such as 'Bless this house' and a simple unadored cross.  That is what my grandparents had in their house, or a Desiderata, and one simple cross.

And, having had family who were old style settlers, their farmhouses were as unadorned and stark as the one pictured in the Twist household.  I don't know how you can chalk up to 'production mistakes' items that to me, belonging to a long line of Protestant believers, seems to match pretty exactly.

A 'mistake' is something like Jack straightening up from a shot where he places a piece of wood, and in the next shot, the piece of wood he has not touched has magically vanished, which I noticed today... or the hood of the truck being ajar in the first shot and being firmly closed in the next shot with no one closing it.

Well Louise, it appears that you haven't been in many Southern Baptist or Pentecostal homes in the rural areas of the red states recently . SB homes and Pentecostal homes of the devout, especially in rural areas are chock full of religious objects, usually with Bible verses stitched, painted or embossed on. Plaques, wall hangings, "Last Supper" pictures, "Gethsemane Garden" pictures, and praying hands statuettes out the wazoo, not to mention the ubiquitous pine box that the Bible is kept in on the coffee table.

3 Protestant "sects"? Sorry, but you have me puzzled now. There are dozens and dozens or Protestant denominations in the US. In my home town (pop < 3000) back in the 1960's there were 10 protestant churches but no Roman Catholic churches at all. And also the Jehovah's Witnesses, I'm not sure where they fit in on the denomination flow charts.  

I think that it really is odd that a person of such pronounced religiosity as Mother Twist would not decorate with a stronger religious theme in her house, except for the one Jesus picture we see in the kitchen.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #143 on: March 02, 2008, 08:21:25 pm »
Regarding the credits listing so-called "extras", I believe early versions of the script had speaking scenes for some of them; specifically the waitress in Signal and the assailants.  I don't know the rules about their inclusion in credits if their scenes eventually get cut. 

Interestingly, some early sources used to list the cast including Valerie Planche, as if she were some major star; when in actuality, the actors were listed in order of appearance (or non-appearance as the case may be).

Tatoo girl really does stand out.  Very odd choice of casting.

the credits puzzled me and I wondered if something interesting may have been cut, I mean as obsessive as some of us Brokies get, we'd love to see some of the deleted scenes especially if they had dialog from these "missing" actors.

glad you noticed the tatoo girl too!

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #144 on: March 02, 2008, 08:25:17 pm »
Maybe it was the starving dogs that killed that sheep Ennis found after TS1.

interesting point ! I never considered that !

I hadn't considered that because the dog was keeping watch and whining over the gutted ewe when Ennis rode up. maybe the dog really was protecting her kill? probably if the dogs were hungry enough to kill a sheep, which is what Jack wanted to do, they might turn feral after the kill and just go off with the coyotes and stalk game on Brokeback.

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #145 on: March 02, 2008, 08:49:15 pm »
I wonder if that means something?

Quote
  I think that it really is odd that a person of such pronounced religiosity as Mother Twist would not decorate with a stronger religious theme in her house, except for the one Jesus picture we see in the kitchen. 

Like many things? Abused... but not nescessary so! At my lover's house, there was only the bible, but I found it in a drawer in my  own bedroom where he kept it, and he was mennonite! Rare are religious imagery in some protestant homes... or in most, according to my experiences. Protestants, let us not forget, protested against the many catholic imageries, remember?

Hugs!

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #146 on: March 02, 2008, 09:16:53 pm »
I wonder if that means something?

Like many things? Abused... but not nescessary so! At my lover's house, there was only the bible, but I found it in a drawer in my  own bedroom where he kept it, and he was mennonite! Rare are religious imagery in some protestant homes... or in most, according to my experiences. Protestants, let us not forget, protested against the many catholic imageries, remember?

Hugs!

Religious practices change and evolve over time. On this topic of the unusual decor in the Twist home I am not speaking theoretically or historically but from my own experiences growing up in an overwhelmingly fundamentalist protestant community in a red state rural area.

Instead of stereotyping all Protestants based upon the 16th century origins of one of the Protestant denominations, you might learn more about the Twist family by looking outside a history book and instead into the current practices of people who live today and have religious practices that are similar to Mother Twist.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #147 on: March 02, 2008, 10:03:25 pm »
glad you noticed the tatoo girl too!

Many Brokies have said they think the tattoo girl is too conspicuous -- especially as one of only a handful of people on the dance floor -- to be just some randomly chosen extra. In other discussions, we've tried to figure out whether Ang Lee meant to say something by casting her and, if so, what.

My favorite explanation is that she emphasizes Ennis' paranoia. Nobody is paying much attention to this unusually tattooed woman (never mind that in a real life small-town tavern, even today, she'd probably draw some glances). And if they aren't concerned about her, maybe Ennis is overreacting to his fear that people on the pavement "know" or even give a damn what he's up to. After all, nine out of 10 of them don't even know where he lives!

Other theories: 1) Like Ennis, metaphorically, she is wearing a costume or "disguise." 23) Her presence indicates it's kind of a dive bar. 3) She shows that times are a-changing, and people are becoming more accepting of differences.


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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #148 on: March 02, 2008, 10:26:00 pm »
Thanks brokeplex!

You suggest:
Quote
you might learn more about the Twist family by looking outside a history book and instead into the current practices of people who live today and have religious practices that are similar to Mother Twist.  

...

Brokeplex, to that I am happy about your suggestion! You do NOT know that I did and still do that? I did and do!!

My past lover W. had no cross... neither did and does to-day his aunt, his mother, his brother... where I went to visit with him them nearly weekly for many years those places as they were his relatives!! He was a modern-day mennonite with a car and with his house and property on his parents farm now a city area that came to it, unfortunately!

I also went into other (dozens and dozens) mennoite homes who are old style with no electricity and with horses only - no cars... and I did and do sell and purchase or buy with them too, plus with their businesses.

Plus, my gay lovers pals are all  different stylesprotestants, and I never saw any cross in any of their homes nor apartments!

I will not talk about jews, muslims, etc., as other religions and/or non-religion person(s) wherein I have been in their homes... for now - since I do  not have that talent to do so like you and other here on Bettermost do, in order to relate that to the BM film!! But I wish I could and would!!

May I assure you that my past lover W., that his mother is Mrs. Twist!! So is his aunt Gladys! Where the decorations are very similar to that of the BM film, but no cross!! Most decorations are very old or antique (as I view them to-day since I am also an antique collector and dealer with 50 years experience)!

And you do NOT know that many of my items are in numerous movies, two that I know are in the Chicago movie!!

The impact of decoration, did the director know of that cross? Was there a cross as suggested on this thread? Since that director is from another culture with NO cross likely, maybe he is saying something with one cross in the Mrs. Twist home? Maybe Mrs. was NOT just a protesttant, as she could have married INTO a protestant culture and HAD to live in that??

May I pose that question?

Hugs!

Offline Artiste

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #149 on: March 02, 2008, 10:37:33 pm »
Quote
that she is accepted in the community although she is different because people KNOW her and that mitigates the stigma of being different??

I have found that if you get to know someone it is a little harder to hate them. (although there are always exceptions to the rule.  ) 

Like ineedcrayons, injest said beautifully!

Some tatoos I now accept and NEVER used to do so!! I told my past lover that a 3rd tatoo, would mean that he would NOT be my lover-partner/pal anymore!! I was shocked at his first tatoo on his arm!

So, we change... and we accept to a certain degree... and we change our minds on other things which can educate us!!

But why that issue in the BM movie: for sex and violence?? It projects that Jack maybe will be murdered or die?

Hugs!

Hugs!

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #150 on: March 02, 2008, 11:55:42 pm »
Many Brokies have said they think the tattoo girl is too conspicuous -- especially as one of only a handful of people on the dance floor -- to be just some randomly chosen extra. In other discussions, we've tried to figure out whether Ang Lee meant to say something by casting her and, if so, what.

My favorite explanation is that she emphasizes Ennis' paranoia. Nobody is paying much attention to this unusually tattooed woman (never mind that in a real life small-town tavern, even today, she'd probably draw some glances). And if they aren't concerned about her, maybe Ennis is overreacting to his fear that people on the pavement "know" or even give a damn what he's up to. After all, nine out of 10 of them don't even know where he lives!

Other theories: 1) Like Ennis, metaphorically, she is wearing a costume or "disguise." 23) Her presence indicates it's kind of a dive bar. 3) She shows that times are a-changing, and people are becoming more accepting of differences.



Crayons, You have raised a good point that there are reasons to think that the tattooed girl is not an error on the part of the filmmakers.

I have to say that her tattoos are so obvious that it certainly is in the realm of probability that she was placed in the scene, tattoo's and all, for a reason by Ang Lee. I find it difficult to believe that a production company which got so much right, could let this glaring error go by. If she was placed there deliberately and meant to suggest either "Ennis's paranoia", or that the late 1970's were transitional times, then that obligates us to think of the scene in metaphorical terms, not in terms of a realistic portrayal of what such a dive would really have been like in 1970's Riverton, WY.

And that begs two questions:

1-when do we think about the production values in BM in metaphorical terms?

and

2- When do we fall back on relying on excellence of a realistic portrayal of that period?

The answer I come up with is that it is an individual judgement call based upon our own experiences and knowledge.

Part of the reason my sister and I  began appraising BM critically for continuity and verisimilitude errors back a year ago, is that this question about how to interpret film interests both of us, especially me. And because we both grew up in a rural area similar in many ways to Riverton and Childress, in the same time periods, my sister being closer to the time period when the story opens, I came along a bit later, we knew that we were able to easily spot inconsistencies. 

Last year, an excellent film : "Elizabeth : The Golden Age" was released from director Shekhar Kapur. For those who are not familiar with the film, it is a costume drama set in the middle period of the reign of Elizabeth I of England, during the time of the Babbington Conspiracy and the attack of the Spanish Armada. The film was released with a director's commentary that is very helpful in understanding the work habits of Shekhar. He explains that the film evolves from a straightforward historical drama into an "operatic" phase at the end. Much of the drama towards the last 30 minutes is beautiful stylization without a determined attempt to keep to verisimilitude. We are very fortunate to have the commentary of Shekhar as he explains his work habits as a director better than most director's commentary tracks do in other films.

I wish that Ang Lee would make a gift of a new released director's track on DVD to answer many of the questions that we have about the film.  Meanwhile, maybe like Freud said, "a cigar is just a cigar" or maybe it is an exciting metaphor about something else entirely.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #151 on: March 03, 2008, 12:40:19 am »
Quote
I wish that Ang Lee would make a gift of a new released director's track on DVD to answer many of the questions that we have about the film.  Meanwhile, maybe like Freud said, "a cigar is just a cigar" or maybe it is an exciting metaphor about something else entirely.
 

It is unfortunate that we do not have a director's cut with commentary from Ang Lee. or a book about the film with his writings. But, we do have a book about one of his previous films Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and from his writings in that book we can learn a lot about his thinking and how he uses film images and plot to fill in some of the gaps between movie and story. The book CTHD: The Making of a Film has several chapters that are enlightening. One tells about his spiritual beliefs, such as the Tao Te Ching, and another chapter talks about the choices of costume throughout the movie. I did not find it difficult to extrapolate Ang's intentions in Brokeback Mountain from the similar treatment of CTHD.

There are several characters wearing masks in BBM. In addition to the tatooed lady, there is, of course, the rodeo clown. More subtly, Lureen dons a mask of cosmetics after she is hurt and disappointed by society and her loved ones.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #152 on: March 03, 2008, 12:46:51 am »
 

It is unfortunate that we do not have a director's cut with commentary from Ang Lee. or a book about the film with his writings. But, we do have a book about one of his previous films Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and from his writings in that book we can learn a lot about his thinking and how he uses film images and plot to fill in some of the gaps between movie and story. The book CTHD: The Making of a Film has several chapters that are enlightening. One tells about his spiritual beliefs, such as the Tao Te Ching, and another chapter talks about the choices of costume throughout the movie. I did not find it difficult to extrapolate Ang's intentions in Brokeback Mountain from the similar treatment of CTHD.


Front Ranger!

Thank you for that reference, I  have a DVD of CTHD that has an interesting director's commentary with additional commentary from the principle actors. We can hope that some day soon, a director's cut commentary with the deleted scenes will be released. Frankly, it surprises me that one has not already been released. There certainly is a market for it, and I hope that one was put together before Heath Ledger's death, I would certainly have been very interested in his thoughts on the movie, scene by scene.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #153 on: March 03, 2008, 05:08:48 pm »
I find it difficult to believe that a production company which got so much right, could let this glaring error go by. If she was placed there deliberately and meant to suggest either "Ennis's paranoia", or that the late 1970's were transitional times, then that obligates us to think of the scene in metaphorical terms, not in terms of a realistic portrayal of what such a dive would really have been like in 1970's Riverton, WY.

And that begs two questions:

1-when do we think about the production values in BM in metaphorical terms?

and

2- When do we fall back on relying on excellence of a realistic portrayal of that period?

Good point, Broke.

I can't see the tattooed lady as a "mistake" in the sense of an inadvertent slip that no one noticed or realized would seem odd. Spilled peanuts and anachronistic vehicles aside, the authenticity of other sets, costumes and casting in the movie is too well executed for me to believe they would be oblivious on this one detail. Therefore I think her presence is deliberate, that she's there for a reason. And because the movie is packed with other subtextual meaning, I have no trouble accepting the possibility of some symbolic meaning for her.

But it's worth noting, as you have, that she seems out of place enough to disrupt the realism of that scene. And normally in BBM the metaphors are not jarring. For example, I think the horse that we see Ennis carving and the horse-with-rider he later picks up in Jack's room are both metaphoric, but they are also both perfectly natural in their contexts. The bear that Ennis encounters is loaded with symbolism, IMO, but then again a bear is not unexpected in that setting. Now if Ennis had encountered a giraffe ...  :o

So in that sense, I can see calling the tattooed woman a "mistake." She's placed there deliberately, and probably for a reason, but by standing out as unlikely in that context she disrupts the realism a bit and, at the very least, draws more attention than a symbol is normally supposed to draw.

Then again, I can't imagine any symbolic subtext for the peaches and cereal we see Bobby eating in the Thanksgiving scene, and it disrupts the realism of that scene and is distracting and baffling besides. So maybe they did occasionally just screw up.

Quote
I wish that Ang Lee would make a gift of a new released director's track on DVD to answer many of the questions that we have about the film.

Wouldn't that be great?

Quote
  Meanwhile, maybe like Freud said, "a cigar is just a cigar" or maybe it is an exciting metaphor about something else entirely.

I almost always lean toward "exciting metaphor." Maybe I should think a little harder about the peaches and cereal ...  ;)



Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #154 on: March 03, 2008, 06:16:42 pm »
Another baffling thing is "those soup boxes is real hard to pack." I've never been able to figure that one out!!

"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Artiste

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #155 on: March 03, 2008, 07:36:39 pm »
Is this in Annie's story too?

Quote
    "those soup boxes is real hard to pack."     

Or just in the BM movie?

Hugs!

Offline Fran

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #156 on: March 03, 2008, 08:03:29 pm »
Is this in Annie's story too?

Or just in the BM movie?

Hugs!

Artiste,

The short story includes the lines: 

The sheep trucks and horse trailers unloaded at the trailhead and a bandy-legged Basque showed Ennis how to pack the mules, two packs and a riding load on each animal ring-lashed with double diamonds and secured with half hitches, telling him, "Don't never order soup.  Them boxes a soup are real bad to pack."


Offline brokeplex

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #157 on: March 03, 2008, 11:29:52 pm »
Another baffling thing is "those soup boxes is real hard to pack." I've never been able to figure that one out!!



Ranger I think that Aguirre's employee is warning Ennis about the size of the bulk of the soup boxes, I am assuming that the soup would be dehydrated soup packaged  into boxes. There could be deeper meaning to the word "soup", I know I have heard certain bodily excretions referred to as "soup". and the word "packing" can also mean something within a sexual context as well.  any thoughts? 

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #158 on: March 03, 2008, 11:36:57 pm »

I think the horse that we see Ennis carving and the horse-with-rider he later picks up in Jack's room are both metaphoric, but they are also both perfectly natural in their contexts.





good point about the symbolism in the "horse with rider" toy and the carved horse, perhaps they are symbolic of unfulfilled childhood dreams, also you have just prompted me into seeing another piece of the film's palindromic structure. Ive got to update that thread one of these days.

 ;D

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #159 on: March 03, 2008, 11:39:00 pm »
Ranger I think that Aguirre's employee is warning Ennis about the size of the bulk of the soup boxes, I am assuming that the soup would be dehydrated soup packaged  into boxes. There could be deeper meaning to the word "soup", I know I have heard certain bodily excretions referred to as "soup". and the word "packing" can also mean something within a sexual context as well.  any thoughts? 

Well, I am at a loss here, but this line of thought is very interesting and seems to offer some answers where I never found any before!
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Artiste

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #160 on: March 03, 2008, 11:41:05 pm »
Thanks Fran!

I remember your quote now:
Quote
Don't never order soup.  Them boxes a soup are real bad to pack."

 
 
  
........

So this is a mystery that we have NOT solved yet? Like you and other say, like brokeplex too:
Quote
 Ranger I think that Aguirre's employee is warning Ennis about the size of the bulk of the soup boxes, I am assuming that the soup would be dehydrated soup packaged  into boxes. There could be deeper meaning to the word "soup", I know I have heard certain bodily excretions referred to as "soup". and the word "packing" can also mean something within a sexual context as well.  any thoughts?  
........

Wow, wow?? I heard something about soup too... when I used to work as pastry chef with men drilling for oil... but I can NOT remember!

So the mystery continues for now... and who will solve it?? Any more clues??
hugs!!

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #161 on: March 03, 2008, 11:48:59 pm »
Well, I am at a loss here, but this line of thought is very interesting and seems to offer some answers where I never found any before!


Ranger , I didn't mean to shock you, but if we are to feel free to look at the film as having symbolic meanings in the images and words, then the "packing them soup boxes" can take on a very different meaning.

 another little flow of my consciousness, I always thought that when Jack was on the mountain the year before that he was not always on the mountain alone, that maybe he had the company of the man who delivered Ennis's and Jack's groceries at the bridge. maybe then his words to Ennis were a bit of a warning or perhaps he was letting him know "how it goes" up on the mountain when you are lonely. just a thought.

 :)

Offline Artiste

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #162 on: March 04, 2008, 12:17:30 am »
Wow, brokeplex, you sure made me smile:
Quote
I always thought that when Jack was on the mountain the year before that he was not always on the mountain alone, 
<
...

Does Jack ever mention OTHER were there the year BEFORE??
................

Coming back to soup, would that NOT be so liquid as to give THEM Ennis and Jack trouble(s), go to the washroom more quickly??

Hugs!

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #163 on: March 04, 2008, 12:19:48 am »
Wow, brokeplex, you sure made me smile:<
...

Does Jack ever mention OTHER were there the year BEFORE??
................

Coming back to soup, would that NOT be so liquid as to give THEM Ennis and Jack trouble(s), go to the washroom more quickly??

Hugs!

he mentions that he looked after Aguirre's sheep the year before and Aguirre expresses his disappointment in his losses that year. does he mention a companion, no not to my knowledge.

there is no washroom in the tent to wash up afterwards, you just have to grin and bear it, so to speak.   ;D

Offline forsythia12

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #164 on: March 04, 2008, 02:25:38 am »
okay...not sure if this has already been posted, but here's one i noticed.
when they shot the moose/elk, they used a .30-30, which is unlikely to kill an elk in one shot.  a .30-30 was suitable for cyotees, which was it's purpose for the boys to carry, but elks are huge and have thick hydes, so, i highly doubt this calliber would've done the job.......especially with just one round. also, when they shot the elk, the back-end of the elk dropped, which wouldnt've happened, as you shoot for the neck or heart...not the rear legs, or anything behind the shoulder.  if they had shot the elk back there, a lot of meat would've been ruined, and it would've been a huge mess to carve out....and, you certainly wouldn't take a chance in rupturing any of the G.I. tract, which would've spoiled all of the meat.
if they wanted to make it more believable, they should've had the elk's front-end go down first.  in fact, i wonder how they did that scene, and got the elk to sway in the first place.  i guess a tranquillizer huh?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 03:56:57 am by forsythia12 »

Offline Katie77

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #165 on: March 04, 2008, 04:49:28 am »
Gee, Leigh-ann, you certainly know a lot about shooting elk.  ??? ???  lol

I dont think seeing the poor animals head blown off, would have been too good to see.

And getting back to what they fed the dogs with, I guess, the dogs got the elk scraps.
Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect.

It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfection

Offline forsythia12

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #166 on: March 04, 2008, 05:09:36 am »
Gee, Leigh-ann, you certainly know a lot about shooting elk.  ??? ???  lol

I dont think seeing the poor animals head blown off, would have been too good to see.

And getting back to what they fed the dogs with, I guess, the dogs got the elk scraps.

lol.
no, i don't think it's head being blown off would've been good, or correct either.  i just meant that since we're picking at all the little mistakes, i just noticed this.  i don't hunt, but around here, everyone does, so you learn a thing or two.  also, i shoot targets, so i know a little bit about guns.
if they wanted to make it better, i just think they should've dropped the elk on it's front, or just not shown it at all, and i think they should've taken a couple shots.
it may sound picky, but everything on this blog does....and i thought the elk shoot was much more noticeable than some of the other things...(ie.  i don't know anything about aluminum frames on barns, and what year they came about) lol
but yes, i hear ya katie77.


Offline Artiste

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #167 on: March 04, 2008, 11:54:33 am »
When I was young, father got unfortunately some bad cheques from some customers and since times were hard and with a big family too (11 of us), I had to go moose hunting with dad and my younger brother, since we nearly starved at times (with just bread and lard, and if we added sugar on that bread, that was a luxury). And we did use 30. 30, if I remember correctly. Most times!! It does damage less the meat or nearly not at all!

Never did more than one bullet, one did into any moose!!

You knew how to aim properly and respect the animal as much as possible.

(Of course, there are some bad hunters who do not respect life, same thing when they murder or kill a human!!)

The elk scene was done on a reservation of elks. There are some information about that! Did you see it?

Hugs! Note: that I would never kill any animal anymore, even if I was starving!! ONLY in self defense, would I protect myself!!




Offline forsythia12

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #168 on: March 04, 2008, 01:05:02 pm »
When I was young, father got unfortunately some bad cheques from some customers and since times were hard and with a big family too (11 of us), I had to go moose hunting with dad and my younger brother, since we nearly starved at times (with just bread and lard, and if we added sugar on that bread, that was a luxury). And we did use 30. 30, if I remember correctly. Most times!! It does damage less the meat or nearly not at all!

Never did more than one bullet, one did into any moose!!

You knew how to aim properly and respect the animal as much as possible.

(Of course, there are some bad hunters who do not respect life, same thing when they murder or kill a human!!)

The elk scene was done on a reservation of elks. There are some information about that! Did you see it?

Hugs! Note: that I would never kill any animal anymore, even if I was starving!! ONLY in self defense, would I protect myself!!





wow artiste....that's interesting.  thanks for the post.
perhaps you are right, and of course one bullet should do it, if you're a proper hunter, and get it right the first time.  my point only is that if it had been shot where it was in the movie, that's when the meat would've spoiled because you don't shoot behind the shoulder, and in this case, they probably did because the animal's back-end dropped first.  no, i don't think they should've really fired a million rounds into the thing, i just think where the animal dropped  is very flawed.  we are talking about mistakes in production, and this is just one i happened to notice...and it's an accurate observation.  i didn't mean that i wanted to see the animal blown up...and in fact, i think they should've left the actual shot out of the movie because in reality, they couldn't make it fall properly....which would've been full front down firt, then back end.  they most likely used a tranquillizer, and to do that, you shoot in the hind, or butt; thus, making the animal's back legs 'give out'.  so, the hunting scene was a little far fetched.
and as far as the .30-30, it is not the prefered choice of ammunition for big game.  yes, it would've done the job in a pinch, like jack and ennis were in, but, the shot would've had to been perfect, and as i pointed out, the shot was not in the right place.


Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #169 on: March 04, 2008, 01:19:33 pm »
Ranger , I didn't mean to shock you, but if we are to feel free to look at the film as having symbolic meanings in the images and words, then the "packing them soup boxes" can take on a very different meaning.
hehe, no you didn't shock me...after all, I did play the Clear Slick in the Performance Thread! I was "at a loss" because you asked, "any thoughts" and I didn't have any at first! But now I have one...I remember where the soup was discussed before on imdb and we have preserved the discussion here. I will have to review this and think about it some more because I still don't think we have gotten to the bottom (sorry!) of this discussion!
I always thought that when Jack was on the mountain the year before that he was not always on the mountain alone, that maybe he had the company of the man who delivered Ennis's and Jack's groceries at the bridge. maybe then his words to Ennis were a bit of a warning or perhaps he was letting him know "how it goes" up on the mountain when you are lonely. just a thought.
Yes, that is quite plausible, plex. Jack musta had SOMEBODY with him or checking on him, it's clear Aguirre didn't think enuff of his capabilities to leave him alone with 1,000 sheep for an entire summer! And things did get intense at least at one point because there was 25% loss that summer, lightning struck, etc. The Basque woulda known all about that but he would not have wanted to pass it along to Ennis, so he did either subconsciously or in metaphor. Good points!
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Artiste

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #170 on: March 04, 2008, 08:10:54 pm »
Thanks forsythia!

Good observation, you did!

And:

Quote
tranquillizer,
...
Yes, they did with special permission just to make it sleep!!

It seems to me that is what I read about it!
...

So, that meat that Ennis and Jack on the line and what they did eat was NOT elk?

Hugs!


Offline brokeplex

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #171 on: March 05, 2008, 12:40:07 pm »
hehe, no you didn't shock me...after all, I did play the Clear Slick in the Performance Thread! I was "at a loss" because you asked, "any thoughts" and I didn't have any at first! But now I have one...I remember where the soup was discussed before on imdb and we have preserved the discussion here. I will have to review this and think about it some more because I still don't think we have gotten to the bottom (sorry!) of this discussion! Yes, that is quite plausible, plex. Jack musta had SOMEBODY with him or checking on him, it's clear Aguirre didn't think enuff of his capabilities to leave him alone with 1,000 sheep for an entire summer! And things did get intense at least at one point because there was 25% loss that summer, lightning struck, etc. The Basque woulda known all about that but he would not have wanted to pass it along to Ennis, so he did either subconsciously or in metaphor. Good points!


one of the things which has always puzzled me, is why did Aguirre rehire Jack? He clearly wasn't satisfied with him. Maybe he couldn't get anyone else to do the job?

Offline Artiste

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #172 on: March 05, 2008, 07:38:48 pm »
Wow, brokeplex, you bring up something!

Quote
one of the things which has always puzzled me, is why did Aguirre rehire Jack? He clearly wasn't satisfied with him. Maybe he couldn't get anyone else to do the job? 
 
 
 

.........
That always puzzles me too!


Then Aguirre would NOT have hired Jack a second time!! So, Aguirred had a bit of a crush on Jack the first time and the second time?? I have that feeling seeing how Aguirre acted towards Jack especially watching Jack via the binoculars!! Could that be it?

Hugs!

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #173 on: June 05, 2008, 01:35:50 am »

My favorite explanation is that she emphasizes Ennis' paranoia. Nobody is paying much attention to this unusually tattooed woman (never mind that in a real life small-town tavern, even today, she'd probably draw some glances). And if they aren't concerned about her, maybe Ennis is overreacting to his fear that people on the pavement "know" or even give a damn what he's up to. After all, nine out of 10 of them don't even know where he lives!

Other theories: 1) Like Ennis, metaphorically, she is wearing a costume or "disguise." 23) Her presence indicates it's kind of a dive bar. 3) She shows that times are a-changing, and people are becoming more accepting of differences.




This is how I see it.  It is in the same vein as what is on Jack's truck radio as he pulls up at Ennis's place post-divorce, something about a Little Richard concert that had just happened and how much the crowd had loved it.  And that radio broadcast was in contrast to the one that was playing much earlier, when Ennis is packing to go see Jack, the time Alma talks about the opening at the power company.  In that scene, the dj is telling an insulting joke about a puny, effeminate man.  So to me, both the tattooed woman and the positive description of the Little Richard concert-goers is a sign that maybe, just maybe, Ennis could have had a life with Jack, if he'd mustered the courage.

Offline southendmd

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Re: Production Mistakes I think they Made on the Movie
« Reply #174 on: October 25, 2013, 01:14:51 pm »
bump!