Discongruency in Brokeback Mountain

[Front-Ranger]

I took careful notes on my way back from Bay City, Michigan. But, I seem to have misplaced theml However, I remember what I wrote about, and I'm goin to talk about it on this thread!!

[Front-Ranger]

Where to begin? I guess Aguirre is as good a place as any.

After the descent from the mountain, Aguirre looked at the flock and said, "Some a these never went up there with you." So, there were some extra sheep. But then it says that the count was not what he'd hoped for either. Meaning, the count of the sheep was lower than it should have been? Go figure.

[serious crayons]

Where to begin? I guess Aguirre is as good a place as any.

After the descent from the mountain, Aguirre looked at the flock and said, "Some a these never went up there with you." So, there were some extra sheep. But then it says that the count was not what he'd hoped for either. Meaning, the count of the sheep was lower than it should have been? Go figure.

Well, I've always taken that to mean he could tell from the paint marks that some of the sheep didn't go with them originally, but also that they were missing a few that DID. In other words, Aguirre is saying that in a disquieting way, everything seemed mixed.

[Fran]

Aside from the one sheep that fell victim to the pack of coyotes, there most likely were others.  Ennis and/or Jack weren't with the sheep all the time, especially at night when the herd would be most vulnerable.  But even if one of them was sleeping in the pup tent, they'd still have to sleep at least part of the night.  Plus, the herd is spread out over a large area.  It'd be difficult to watch everything all of the time. I'd expect some sheep to die of natural causes, too, over the course of the summer. 

Joe Aguirre appears to be the type of boss that wouldn't be satisfied unless all of his sheep came back, and what were the odds of that happening?

[David]

Indeed.  Not only was the count low, but he could see the incorrect paint markings on the mixed up sheep.    So he knew the boys were not doing what they were suposed to be doing.   And he saw that with his own eyes too.     He of course figured with two men up on the mountain and one sleeping with the sheep that the loss to wolves would be less.

[Fran]

Part of the difficulty separating the mixed-up sheep was due to the fact that the paint brands were worn off or faint that late in the season.

I like to think that Jack and Ennis tried their best to remove Joe's sheep from the herd of Chilean sheep -- in the story it took them five days, so it was a huge effort -- but if the brands were completely worn off, it'd be an impossible task. They'd just be guessing as to whether those brandless sheep were from Joe's herd or the other herd.

If the brands were faint, at least they wouldn't have to rely on guesswork.  Still, it would be difficult to separate them because they'd have to closely examine each and every sheep, which would be more time-consuming than, say, just glancing at the sheep (if the brands were clearly visible) and removing the ones that obviously didn't belong.  The task would be made even more difficult by the sheer number of sheep, and the sheep probably weren't that cooperative.  The fact that the Chileans didn't speak English further complicated things.   It was a huge mess any way you look at it.

 He of course figured with two men up on the mountain and one sleeping with the sheep that the loss to wolves would be less.

And fortunately for Joe, he didn't lose another 42 sheep to lightning.

[Front-Ranger]

Okay let's talk about discongruency in titles, starting with, what else. Brokeback Mountain. When I think of mountains, I often think about the Continental Divide, which is like the "spine" of the Americas. The Continental Divide is typically the highest region of the Continent, where rivers run in opposite directions to the seas. So, Brokeback Mountain presents an image of discongruency, the spine of the continent which is broken. Brokeback also connotes weakness, while mountain connotes strength.

It is interesting that in Central Wyoming, there are actually two Continental Divides, one over near the Bridger/Teton ranges of the Rocky Mountains, and another further to the east. (Now all of you geologists feel free to come in here and elaborate, correct, whatever) Between them is a high plateau, the "Muddy Gap" and the Wind River Valley.

[Front-Ranger]

Was it the discongruency in Brokeback Mountain that drew the auteur of "Lust, Caution" "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" and "Sense and Sensibility" to the project??

[Front-Ranger]

Okay let's talk about discongruency in titles, starting with, what else. Brokeback Mountain. When I think of mountains, I often think about the Continental Divide, which is like the "spine" of the Americas. The Continental Divide is typically the highest region of the Continent, where rivers run in opposite directions to the seas. So, Brokeback Mountain presents an image of discongruency, the spine of the continent which is broken. Brokeback also connotes weakness, while mountain connotes strength.

It is interesting that in Central Wyoming, there are actually two Continental Divides, one over near the Bridger/Teton ranges of the Rocky Mountains, and another further to the east. (Now all of you geologists feel free to come in here and elaborate, correct, whatever) Between them is a high plateau, the "Muddy Gap" and the Wind River Valley.

Here is a photo I took while travelling south through the spectacular Wind River Canyon. It was explained to me that this is an "hourglass" canyon with a very narrow pass. It is unsettling to see the rapids of the Wind River flowing NORTH in this canyon. This is also part of the area where the Continental Divide is itself divided into two.

[Front-Ranger]

I'm moving fast here...hope you can see the connections...

From the book "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon: A Porttrait of the Ang Lee Film" here are the words of Ang Lee:

"What is the Tao, the 'way?' Of course if you can say it, it's not the real Tao, It's enigmatic, in that it can only manifest itself through contradictions, through the conflicts of the heart rather than through the harmony it seeks."

[brokebackjack]

Where to begin? I guess Aguirre is as good a place as any.

After the descent from the mountain, Aguirre looked at the flock and said, "Some a these never went up there with you." So, there were some extra sheep. But then it says that the count was not what he'd hoped for either. Meaning, the count of the sheep was lower than it should have been? Go figure.

Well the paint was so  worn it was hard to tell; the BREEDS were mixed. There are different breeds of sheep, noticeable instantly to sheepmen. He meant literally some of these never went up there with you, they were another breed of sheep. Least that's what I get.

I'm confused by discongruities Lee, thought it meant editing etc, obvious flaws. Is that what you mean here?

[Front-Ranger]

No, congruency means, in harmony, in agreement, and conforming to the circumstances or requirements of a situation. So discongrencies in the movie/story would be sayings or actions that are not in harmony or agreement with the situation or what we would expect. I was thinking of calling this Discongruency and Contradictions in BBM, but decided that would be too long. More examples will follow shortly.

[Front-Ranger]

The music in Brokeback Mountain epitomizes the discongruencies of the story perfectly with its interspersed harmonic and dissonant chords. Just think of the first notes of the movie: two high notes sounded almost together that complement and yet clash with each other.

[Front-Ranger]

That was a good point about the breeds of sheep, Jack. I am often puzzled by how those sheep got all the way from Chile to the Big Horn Mountains of Wyoming, LOL, but there must be a good 'spalnation for it.

Another discongruency that's always interested me is the phrase "the two of them in the euphoric bitter air." Can something be euphoric and bitter at the same time? I'm trying to imagine it.

[serious crayons]

Another discongruency that's always interested me is the phrase "the two of them in the euphoric bitter air." Can something be euphoric and bitter at the same time? I'm trying to imagine it.

I think of euphoric as a mood, and, in this case, bitter as a flavor -- a challenging, yet bracing and refreshing flavor. But you're right, bitter can be a mood, too, and in that sense is pretty much the opposite of euphoric.

[BBM-Cat]

This is an interesting discongruency....'euphoric' implies expansive, while 'bitter' implies an imposed limitation. I was trying to think of an example to FR's question - can something be euphoric and bitter at the same time? This is a great question. I thought about a recent visit to New York City I took last year with my husband and his family - we walked all over and toured the sights including the Empire State Building, Ground Zero (9/11), etc. To me the experience was 'euphoric' because it was exciting, like sensory overload - so much to take in at one time;  at the same time it was also kind of 'bitter' because the environment was unfamiliar to me and I felt out of sorts, and there were certainly some sights on the trip that were harder to deal with emotionally than others (like Ground Zero). The bustle of NYC is certainly a far cry from BBM but maybe the 'euphoric and bitter air' is likened to the mileau that surrounded Jack & Ennis' new found companionship/love relationship and all of it's uncertainties.

[Penthesilea]

Another discongruency that's always interested me is the phrase "the two of them in the euphoric bitter air." Can something be euphoric and bitter at the same time? I'm trying to imagine it.

I have two possible interpretations for the "euphoric, bitter air". The first one is more mundane, the second one more spiritual.

The mundane one:
Let me start with the second word, bitter: I always interpreted it as bitterly cold. Now I looked it up in the dictionary and indeed, it said that bitter, when used in regard to weather, wind or air, means bitterly cold.
So although it was bitterly cold on the mountain, and other people would have hated the situation and the job, they didn't mind it - in fact they loved their time up there. They loved it so much, it gave them such a sense of euphoria that they felt like they were able to fly.

The more spiritual one:
The air was euphoric for the same reason as before (liberating, clean, giving them so much sense of freedom and happyness they thought they could fly). And the "bitter" part is meant as a foreshadowing of the things to come and as a reminder that even in their Garden Eden, the world was not perfect: Aguirre watched them (and this is told to the reader in ther very next sentence!), and both knew that they could not stay on the mountain forever, that everything has to come to an end.

I can imagine things that are euphoric and bitter at the same time (bitter not in the sense of cold, but in the sense of hard/ difficult/hurtful). BBM-cat's example is a good one. Or imagine a person who was once very important and/or beloved to you, but you parted in anger - and then meeting this person for the first time after years. Think also of the word bittersweet.

[brokebackjack]

now that is a beautiful post....

[Front-Ranger]

I agree.

We live on conflict. I mean, what else can you expect from a species that gets around by first falling forward and then catching itself, by alternatively balancing and unbalancing on its caliper legs??

The music of the movie expresses this with its interspersal of harmonic and dissonant chords.