Author Topic: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???  (Read 19949 times)

Offline Aussie Chris

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« on: April 24, 2006, 07:33:56 am »
Ok, I have a question that occured to me on my first viewing that I only remembered today.  I've been trying to catch up on historical Tremblay posts, and today I came across the topic: "An interesting thread from the main IMDB board...".  This *was* an interesting read, and in it there was a reference to the scene where Jack says "I did once".

Now what has puzzled me is this scene is where Ennis is explaining why they can't get together in August.  It all leads to the admonition that Ennis' life is too hard/complex, can't quit this job, it's difficult enough to get the time away that he does, and "the trade-off is August".  He then asks Jack if has/had a better idea.  So far, all well and good, but I was surprised that when Jack says "I did once" (expecting this to be in relation to the better idea of a cow-and-calf operation, that Ennis immediately concludes that "you been to Mexico Jack?".  Jack nods and then there's the argument, yadda, yadda, yadda.  So now I'm confused.  Is the full sentence from Jack supposed to be:

Ennis: You got a better idea?
Jack: I did once... and it's to go to Mexico.

Huh?  Am I missing something?  How is this a "better idea"?  Have you Tremblayans discussed this before?  Sorry if you have and I've not come across it yet.
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare

Offline Ray

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,040
  • Ray Nasty!
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2006, 07:38:36 am »
I think it was " I did once but you have let me down so many times that I dare not ever contemplate offering it again."
~A good general knows when to retreat~

Offline Aussie Chris

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2006, 07:41:43 am »
Yeah, but how does that lead to a Mexico conclusion???
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare

Offline Sheyne

  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 960
  • I am pretty good with a canoe tho..
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2006, 07:44:45 am »
Chris, I always thought "I did once" was a bitter reference to the proposition Jack made in their 20's that they leave their wives and be together.  He was saying that he HAD the better idea - as in, he's sick of their sporadic get togethers but he's put up with it because he loves him - but if he had HIS way, they'd have lived together as partners.  And he says it with that accusatory tone because he wants to rub it in to Ennis that it didn't have to be the way it has been.

And as Ray said, he wouldn't ever put the offer out there again.

I think at this point, also, he's considering leaving Ennis because he can't handle hardly ever seeing him.

That's the way I've always interpreted this line.
Chut up!

Offline Aussie Chris

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2006, 07:49:28 am »
OK, I agree, but that's my problem.  We are focusing on Jack's motive for saying "I did once" and what he means.  What I don't understand is how Ennis concludes that he means Mexico?
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare

Offline Ray

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,040
  • Ray Nasty!
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2006, 07:52:51 am »
Yup!
~A good general knows when to retreat~

Offline David

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,097
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2006, 07:54:01 am »
"I did once".   Yup, that had nothing to do with Mexico.     Jack had a puss on his face all that week.   He was not happy with the current situation even before Ennis told him about August being cancelled.

If you remember, Jack said "Why are we always in the cold?  we should go to Mexico".

He then goes into the "I did once" speach.     This gets Ennis mad, so he lashes out with the "You been to Mexico Jack Twist?"     Ennis needs an excuse to vent his anger to.    He may have always suspected that Jack had sought out "other" attention.   Now that Ennis see's things are falling apart, all those unsaid things can be said now.
"I did once"?    Twice really.   The first time was the "Cow and calf" idea back in 67, then the time in 1976 when he suggested to Ennis that he move down to Texas.

And after Ennis's reaction that time, Jack surely wouldn't say anything again.

 :'(

Offline Sheyne

  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 960
  • I am pretty good with a canoe tho..
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2006, 07:58:02 am »
Hmm.. maybe Jack's undeniable bitterness and his obvious longing for masculine interaction (check out the reaction when Ennis says he can't see him for a long time) and maybe Ennis put 2 & 2 together in his own mind... Jack very bitter: Jack desperate for me (or men in general): can't have me: seeks other options?

I always thought the leap was a bit great, but Jack HAD mentioned Mexico, when he says to Ennis they ought to go there..

I mean, yeah, Mexico is hot... or warmer than the mountains..  And Jack saying "we ought to go south where its warm, we ought to go to Mexico"... that sorta implies he's been there, IMO.  And Ennis knows there are hookers to every taste there and I reckon he's just put 2 & 2 together here..  
Chut up!

Offline Aussie Chris

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2006, 08:00:51 am »
If you remember, Jack said "Why are we always in the cold?  we should go to Mexico".

Ah! Thanks David, couldn't see the forrest for the trees.  And the harder I tried the worse it got.  Ok, so there's no connection between "I did once" and Mexico other than Jack mentions that it's warmer there in the sentence before.  It bothered me because I wonder how Ennis knew what there was down there for boys like Jack???  I mean, if we didn't see Jack go there after the rejection I would have been totally confused about how all this ties together... ;)
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare

Offline Aussie Chris

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2006, 08:04:59 am »
I always thought the leap was a bit great, but Jack HAD mentioned Mexico, when he says to Ennis they ought to go there..

Thanks for mentioning that - I wondered if it's just me that has trouble with the dialogue at this point.
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare

Offline Ray

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,040
  • Ray Nasty!
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2006, 08:06:04 am »
He doesn't 'conclude' Mexico in my opinion.  Mexico becomes the accusation to cover the guilt.  Mexico is the 'change of subject'. Mexico denies Ennis the justification.  Ennis truely believes that the gay sex is is a phenomenon that is only shared between Jake and Ennis.  Mexico betrays that belief.  Mexico steals Ennis' secret.  Mexico expands Ennis's world when he wanted it controllable.  Mexico makes Ennis FEEL NOT SO SPECIAL.  Mexico makes Ennis feel cheated where as the women conquests never diid because they never competed!
~A good general knows when to retreat~

Offline Brown Eyes

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,377
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2006, 08:10:41 am »
I think the "I did once" simply refers back to the cow and calf operation and more generally to his longstanding desire to live with Ennis.

Here's the link back to the "I did once" imdb thread http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/board/flat/35219370
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Sheyne

  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 960
  • I am pretty good with a canoe tho..
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2006, 08:11:50 am »
Very well put, my colour-blind, piece o pie..

Check out the Frappr thread.. Chris confirms my redness...  :P

This is well stated... Ennis wants to be the only man in Jack's life and if Jack has let another man touch him...  well, its the same as anybody finding out their partner has cheated on them...

Devastating..
Chut up!

Offline Aussie Chris

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2006, 08:18:40 am »
Here's the link back to the "I did once" imdb thread http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/board/flat/35219370

Thanks Amanda, I've kept your IMDB link for a bit of a read.  I love reading your insights...
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare

Offline opinionista

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,939
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2006, 08:23:49 am »
OK, I agree, but that's my problem.  We are focusing on Jack's motive for saying "I did once" and what he means.  What I don't understand is how Ennis concludes that he means Mexico?

When Ennis first informs Jack about not being able to see him until November, Jack gets mad and asks "What are we always in the friggin cold? We should go south, maybe to Mexico one day...This is a bitch of an unsatisfactory situation, You used to come easy now is like seeing the Pope", or something along those lines.

But Ennis doesn't register why Jack is really angry about until he hears him says "I did once" in a bitter tone, meaning that proposition to put up a ranch together. At that moment Ennis realizes Jack is actually mad at him for not wanting to commit. He also realizes what Jack meant by mentioning Mexico.

The scene is interesting because, in my opinion, Ennis is jealous but at the same time he feels very guilty and deep down he knows Jack is right to be mad at him. He senses or fears Jack might leave him. But instead of working things out, he tries to ease his guilt by turning things around and getting mad at Jack for not being faithful.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 08:25:22 am by opinionista »
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. -Mark Twain.

Offline Aussie Chris

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2006, 08:36:52 am »
But Ennis doesn't register why Jack is really angry about until he hears him says "I did once" in a bitter tone, meaning that proposition to put up a ranch together. At that moment Ennis realizes Jack is actually mad at him for not wanting to commit. He also realizes what Jack meant by mentioning Mexico.

This is interesting because the more I think about it, the weirder it seems that Ennis gets angry with Jack at this point.  I partially agree with the suggestions about deflecting blame and maybe even there's guilt or fear of losing Jack, but Ennis' anger is all about Jack being gay and Ennis being willing to kill him for it.  There may be guilt/fear mixed in there, but this is an explosion about Ennis not willing to accept that he is in a gay relationship with Jack.  As far as he is concerned, he's still not moved passed the "I'm not queer" scene.  He's very focussed, very specific.

I think it is this that made me doubt the dialogue progression in the first place.
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare

Offline opinionista

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,939
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2006, 12:22:48 pm »
But Ennis doesn't register why Jack is really angry about until he hears him says "I did once" in a bitter tone, meaning that proposition to put up a ranch together. At that moment Ennis realizes Jack is actually mad at him for not wanting to commit. He also realizes what Jack meant by mentioning Mexico.

This is interesting because the more I think about it, the weirder it seems that Ennis gets angry with Jack at this point.  I partially agree with the suggestions about deflecting blame and maybe even there's guilt or fear of losing Jack, but Ennis' anger is all about Jack being gay and Ennis being willing to kill him for it.  There may be guilt/fear mixed in there, but this is an explosion about Ennis not willing to accept that he is in a gay relationship with Jack.  As far as he is concerned, he's still not moved passed the "I'm not queer" scene.  He's very focussed, very specific.

I think it is this that made me doubt the dialogue progression in the first place.

I agree that part of the reason why Ennis explodes and threatens to kill Jack has to do with his inability to accept his true self. But I think the whole scene is more about their relationship coming to an end than it is about Ennis dealing with his sexuality. After the divorce part, when Jack drives all the way to Wyoming for nothing, Jack’s mood changes considerably. He’s bitter and sad, and Ennis notices it. He knows Jack has changed, which is why I think Ennis doesn’t say anything about the August meeting until they’re about to leave. He senses he stands a chance to lose Jack which gets confirmed when Jack yells at him and says he wishes he knew how to quit him. In fact, Jack’s entire dialogue is really about breaking up, which is why Ennis makes a big deal out of the Mexico trip. By deflecting the blame Ennis attempts to make Jack feel bad so he wont break up. This is how I see it
« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 01:46:01 pm by opinionista »
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. -Mark Twain.

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,757
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2006, 01:15:59 pm »
I agree with Opinionista. When Jack mentions Mexico, it reminds Ennis of what he has heard about Mexico (where he would have heard this, I have no idea -- I can't imagine Ennis, say, shooting the breeze with his fellow ranch hands about good places to go for gay prostitutes -- but let's chalk it up to literary license). This arouses Ennis' suspicions, which maybe even already existed, that Jack has strayed. But Ennis lets it pass for the moment, still hoping to get Jack to lighten up on him.

But when Jack issues that devastating "I did, ONCE," coupled with his already grim demeanor that day, Ennis gets scared. Hell, I got scared at this point! Jack has always held out the possibility of them living together, and even though Ennis wouldn't take him up on it, he was probably comforted to know Jack still wanted it. Now, Jack is putting it in past tense, as if no longer interested in doing that. Ennis detects in Jack's tone a signal that Jack may be getting sick of this, and it terrifies him.

And, as usual when Ennis is afraid or upset, he expresses it by lashing out in anger. So he seizes on the Mexico thing to throw back at Jack. We always argue about whether Ennis is angry about Mexico because he's jealous of Jack with other men or angry because it forces him to acknowledge their mutual gayness. Personally, I think it is more the former. To me, the way he says "boys like you" suggests he has accepted, to some degree, what kind of boy Jack is (even if it implies something, by extension, about himself -- unlike Chris, I think Ennis has moved somewhat, though not completely, beyond the "I'm not queer" stage). And I think that Ennis, though unconcerned about Jack's involvement with women, takes his involvement with other men much more seriously (making John Twist's later revelation about Randall that much more painful). Anyway, threatening to kill Jack seems a bit over the top, but Ennis is angry and, with him, that entails violence.


Offline DeeDee

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,155
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2006, 04:43:54 pm »
I agree with Opinionista. When Jack mentions Mexico, it reminds Ennis of what he has heard about Mexico (where he would have heard this, I have no idea -- I can't imagine Ennis, say, shooting the breeze with his fellow ranch hands about good places to go for gay prostitutes -- but let's chalk it up to literary license). This arouses Ennis' suspicions, which maybe even already existed, that Jack has strayed. But Ennis lets it pass for the moment, still hoping to get Jack to lighten up on him.

But when Jack issues that devastating "I did, ONCE," coupled with his already grim demeanor that day, Ennis gets scared. Hell, I got scared at this point! Jack has always held out the possibility of them living together, and even though Ennis wouldn't take him up on it, he was probably comforted to know Jack still wanted it. Now, Jack is putting it in past tense, as if no longer interested in doing that. Ennis detects in Jack's tone a signal that Jack may be getting sick of this, and it terrifies him.

And, as usual when Ennis is afraid or upset, he expresses it by lashing out in anger. So he seizes on the Mexico thing to throw back at Jack. We always argue about whether Ennis is angry about Mexico because he's jealous of Jack with other men or angry because it forces him to acknowledge their mutual gayness. Personally, I think it is more the former. To me, the way he says "boys like you" suggests he has accepted, to some degree, what kind of boy Jack is (even if it implies something, by extension, about himself -- unlike Chris, I think Ennis has moved somewhat, though not completely, beyond the "I'm not queer" stage). And I think that Ennis, though unconcerned about Jack's involvement with women, takes his involvement with other men much more seriously (making John Twist's later revelation about Randall that much more painful). Anyway, threatening to kill Jack seems a bit over the top, but Ennis is angry and, with him, that entails violence.




Out of everything that was mentioned, there's one line in that scene that just breaks my heart. 
It's because of you, Jack I'm like this.

I cried when I heard that line.  It just sound so sad and pathetic.
In America sex is an obsession.  In other parts of the world it is a fact.

Marlene Dietrich

Offline Brown Eyes

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,377
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2006, 07:28:54 pm »
Heya Aussie Chris,
Thanks for the nice post!  I certainly enjoy reading your insights too.  :D

Also, latjoreme, that's pretty much exactly how I read that scene too. 

Ennis's anger, insecurities and jealousies here are actually all very touching to me, because they're examples of the "coded" ways that Ennis demonstrates his love and deep, deep emotion for Jack (without the overt use of the word, etc.).  It's always been amazing to me that Ennis is so comfortable crying and totally letting loose with his emotions around Jack.  For a "tough guy" Ennis is seen with tears in his eyes a surprisingly large number of times throughout the movie. In this scene even when he's making a show of pushing Jack away, you can just see he's desperate for Jack to reach out to him and comfort him.  All of his accusations and threats, etc. seem to be a little bit like tests to make sure Jack will come around and comfort him like normal.  And, they know each other well... of course Jack can't stay mad and comes and hugs Ennis even while ignoring Ennis's little push.
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Aussie Chris

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2006, 08:26:09 pm »
Wow everyone, I must say that I'm going to have to ponder this some more.  You've never lead me astray, but on this one there's a fundamental that I'm having trouble accepting.  For everyone in the "Ennis is angry over the possibility of losing Jack" camp, the thing this assumes is that Ennis sees what he has with Jack as an actual (romantic) relationship.  At the time of the argument I don't think he does, in fact he doesn't until after Jack's death.  We know for sure that Ennis thinks that gays will be killed, but even more intriguing is that we learn that Ennis himself would be willing to kill Jack if he was to learn the things that Jack does.  So are we saying that this is a case of Ennis lashing out because he fears Jack is going to leave him?  Are the words that Ennis uses about killing Jack just misdirected rage?

Here's something else to consider: is it possible that Ennis was trying to sabotage the relationship at this point?  He gets himself a job that means he cannot get time off.  And after Jack becomes angry and Ennis breaks down, he asks Jack to "leave him be" and that it's because of Jack that he is this way.  If he was really worried about losing Jack, what's going on here?  I'm not forgetting the speech about work and money and child support and such, but how does this support the supposition that Ennis was angry out of fear of losing the relationship?
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,757
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2006, 12:17:09 am »
For a "tough guy" Ennis is seen with tears in his eyes a surprisingly large number of times throughout the movie.

Six times, to be exact! (Alley, divorce, lakeside argument, phone booth, Jack's bedroom, final scene.) And one time for Jack (post-divorce). This came up in an interesting thread in a different BetterMost forum, devoted to the subject of crying in the movie.

And Amanda, I completely agree with you that this is among the ways Ennis expresses love.

As for your perspective, Chris, you've touched on some larger disagreements about the movie that would affect interpretations beyond this one scene. Personally, I DO think Ennis sees what he has with Jack as an actual romantic relationship. Not that he'd call it that; he'd call it "this thing" that "grabs hold of us" or some other non-threateningly vague term. But to me there are lots of signs that, as early as their summer on the mountain, and certainly by the time of the reunion, he knows that he cares passionately about Jack (again, he might not use the word "love," but it would amount to that).

So, yeah, I do think Ennis' threat to kill Jack is misdirected rage. I don't for a second believe he'd actually ever hurt Jack. But he's really angry, and not just out of homophobia, I don't think.

But when he says "leave me be," I don't think he really wants Jack to do that. Nor does he really blame Jack for him feeling like nothing and nobody. Again, he's just lashing out because he's upset and scared. He can't stand it any more, but doesn't know how to fix it.

The music and camera angles in that scene provide clues as to how we're supposed to take it, I think. The music is absent while Jack is talking, and the camera is trained matter-of-factly on him -- he's making some good points, and we don't know how Ennis is reacting, maybe he's still angry or whatever. Then Jack finishes speaking, and finally the camera turns back to Ennis and we see that his demeanor has changed, he is crying and REALLY upset and at that moment the sad touching music strikes up full force, as if indicating that, yeah, Jack is frustrated and pissed off, but look how heartbroken Ennis is. As I understand it, we're being shown that, as hard as this situation is on Jack, it's equally hard on Ennis.


Offline Aussie Chris

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2006, 12:39:03 am »
So, yeah, I do think Ennis' threat to kill Jack is misdirected rage. I don't for a second believe he'd actually ever hurt Jack. But he's really angry, and not just out of homophobia, I don't think.

Oh yeah, of course he wouldn't hurt/kill Jack.  Reading my previous post I realise that that was going too far in the point I was trying to make.  But I do find it a strange line to take (misdirected or otherwise) in an argument.  Ok I'll settle down again now.  It seems that there's a general consensus.  For the most part I do agree with all of the points that's been made by everyone.  Depending on how I feel on the day, I see a different Ennis anyway.  I figured I'd thrash this one out for a while and see what came of it.

I thank everyone for their patience and persistence.
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare

Offline David

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,097
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2006, 07:57:45 am »

Here's something else to consider: is it possible that Ennis was trying to sabotage the relationship at this point?  He gets himself a job that means he cannot get time off.  And after Jack becomes angry and Ennis breaks down, he asks Jack to "leave him be" and that it's because of Jack that he is this way. 

Hi Chris,

      Sabotage?   No,  I don't think so.    Ennis obviously isn't happy about where his life is right then.   But loosing Jack to him is the last thing he wants.    That is why he keeps his mouth shut about August until the end.    Ennis obviously still needs Jack.   That is why he traded August with his boss to get the time of in May.   Ennis is also getting older.  He knows that getting jobs is alot harder when your pushing 40.  (trust me on this.  Sigh)

    No, Ennis's reaction at the end is his "counter point" to Jacks complaints.   Jack has just rattled off how frustrated he was.     These words cut right thru Ennis.   The best he can do is retort back with his laments about where he is in life.   "Let me be" ??   That is the LAST thing Ennis wants!    He is sooo tortured by the fact he wants to be with Jack and societies threat towards them.   

Poor Ennis,  porr Jack.   :'(

Offline opinionista

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,939
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2006, 08:07:40 am »
Quote
I thank everyone for their patience and persistence.

Well, I'm glad you brought this topic up. It made me think about the movie again, which I haven't actually done in a while.

Quote
Here's something else to consider: is it possible that Ennis was trying to sabotage the relationship at this point?  He gets himself a job that means he cannot get time off.  And after Jack becomes angry and Ennis breaks down, he asks Jack to "leave him be" and that it's because of Jack that he is this way.  If he was really worried about losing Jack, what's going on here?  I'm not forgetting the speech about work and money and child support and such, but how does this support the supposition that Ennis was angry out of fear of losing the relationship?

This is intersting because I thought the same until I read Ennis' returned postcard, the one with "deceased" stamped on. I realized then that Ennis didn't want to break up with Jack no matter how unconfortable he felt with the fact that he was in love with a man.

I think Ennis, at that point of his life, felt caught between a rock and a hard place. On one hand, he had his daughters to think about. He loved Jack but he also loved his two little girls and failing to make child support meant a risk to lose them. When he was married to Alma he didn't have to worry about that, because he knew there were going to be home when he was back. But after the divorce, everything was different. And to make things worse, Alma knew about his secret, and Ennis knew she knew. 

On the other hand, losing Jack meant death for him and he knew it. Ennis knew he couldn't live without Jack. Jack was his salvation, the air that kept him alive. He couldn't see him much, but he knew Jack was there, which provided him with some emotional comfort. So, Ennis was struggling hard to have them both, which was emotionally draining for him. When Ennis says: "I can't stand being like this no more, Jack", after falling onto his knees crying, he meant the whole situation not only his relationship with Jack.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2006, 05:33:27 am by opinionista »
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. -Mark Twain.

Offline Aussie Chris

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2006, 08:29:14 am »
On the other hand, losing Jack meant death for him and he knew it. Ennis knew he couldn't live without Jack. Jack was his salvation, the air that kept him alive. He couldn't see him much, but he knew Jack was there, which provided him with some emotional comfort. So, Ennis was struggling hard to have them both, which was emotionally draining for him. When Ennis says: "I can't stand being like this no more, Jack", after falling onto his knees crying, he meant the whole situation not only his relationship with Jack.

So would you say that all Jack had to do is not come running when Ennis called after the argument (and not die of course), and Ennis' world be forced to reconsider the nature of the relationship?  Here I'm taking your "Ennis knew he couldn't live without Jack. Jack was his salvation, the air that kept him alive" thought and applying it to a what would happen if Jack didn't die thought.  I know, the extention to the logic is getting a little ridiculous, but hey, I think a part of me refuses to accept the ending...
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,757
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2006, 09:34:37 am »
But I do find it a strange line to take (misdirected or otherwise) in an argument.

I agree. In a long-ago thread about least-favorite lines, I mentioned this one.

Here's something else to consider: is it possible that Ennis was trying to sabotage the relationship at this point?  He gets himself a job that means he cannot get time off.
      Sabotage?   No,  I don't think so.    Ennis obviously isn't happy about where his life is right then.   But loosing Jack to him is the last thing he wants.

This is arguable, but I do think it's possible that Ennis, though he'd never break up entirely, was deliberately trying to minimize his meetings with Jack. He feels a lot of ambivalence about "the relationship" -- as distinct from his feelings for Jack, whom he loves unambivalently. His "not often" reply to Alma at Thanksgiving and his worries about whether people "suspect" reinforce this view. I know what you mean about the over-40 job market, David, still it doesn't seem as if Ennis made job flexibility his top priority (much to his regret later). Ennis is very stoic, and apparently IS able to get by on a couple of high-altitude f'cks as long as he knows Jack will still be there for him. But, as I said, he'd never really want Jack to leave him be.

But as for this
So would you say that all Jack had to do is not come running when Ennis called after the argument (and not die of course), and Ennis' world be forced to reconsider the nature of the relationship?

I think the answer, sadly, is no. It was Jack's death that forced Ennis to reconsider the nature of the relationship. He already knew he loved Jack. But his death made Ennis realize that his fears about identifying himself as gay should not have outweighed his love.


Offline Brown Eyes

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,377
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2006, 10:27:55 pm »
I believe it's at least possible (although maybe not likely) that Ennis is thinking about trying to work harder on his relationship with Jack following this argument.  People have noted that the "I can't stand this anymore" comment echos the "If you can't fix it you've got to stand it" motto.  I'm increasingly convinced that this motto can be a key to interpreting lots of aspects of the film.  So, maybe Ennis has been scared enough by Jack's unhappiness to try to fix it.  Maybe completely giving up on the Cassie charade was a first step.  I do concede that this might be wishful thinking.  The last postcard is probably good evidence that Ennis had hoped that things would go back to the status quo (with a normal meeting somewhere on a camping trip).

On the idea of sabotage... I can see where that could be an interpretation.  But, towards the beginning of the argument Ennis keeps coming up with idea after idea of things they could do to make November fun, etc.  He even mentions "elk" which has functioned as an aphrodisiac in their relationship before (obviously the elk that they hunt and the ELKS lodge sign that signals the return of romance before the reunion scene). He's really trying to appease Jack and make him feel better right up to the "I did once" after Ennis says "Do you have a better idea."  I think, as you've said, that it's also important he didn't break the November news until the very end of their trip.  He clearly feels terribly guilty.

No, as I said in my earlier post, I think that Ennis is desperate to keep Jack.  You can't make love to a person for 20 years and have the kinds of passionate encounters and incredible moments of intimacy and not know on some level that this is love and a romantic relationship. We're only allowed to see a few of these moments by the filmmakers... we have to extrapolate and realize that there really are 20 years of long chats, confessions, "happy tussles," tent scenes and kisses, etc.  This is what makes Ennis's life exciting and meaningful (aside from his kids).  How could he not know how significant all of this is?  He believes he's making great sacrifices in order to facilitate this relationship too. 

What he says and what he does are often frustratingly different in this movie.  He doesn't consider the word love until way too late, but the flashback scene alone radiates love.  He says mean and hurtful things during the argument, but I do believe he's sort of testing Jack here.  His comments show how worried he is, I think.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2006, 09:00:42 pm by atz75 »
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,757
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2006, 11:38:49 pm »
I believe it's at lease possible (although maybe not likely) that Ennis is thinking about trying to work harder on his relationship with Jack following this argument.  People have noted that the "I can't stand this anymore" comment echos the "If you can't fix it you've got to stand it" motto.  I'm increasingly convinced that this motto can be a key to interpreting lots of aspects of the film.  So, maybe Ennis has been scared enough by Jack's unhappiness to try to fix it.  Maybe completely giving up on the Cassie charade was a first step.  I do concede that this might be wishful thinking.  The last postcard is probably good evidence that Ennis had hoped that things would go back to the status quo (with a normal meeting somewhere on a camping trip).

Not to sound like I'm totally equivocating about what I said above about the possibility of Ennis sabotaging the relationship, but I agree with this. If Ennis WAS sabotaging -- extremely arguable, but there's something about his "not often" in the Thanksgiving scene that I find ominous -- it was only BEFORE this big argument (maybe "minimize" the relationship is a better description; I don't see him breaking it off completely). But during the argument he saw that he was seriously at risk of losing Jack, and it really upset him. And I, too, believe that his breaking up with Cassie signals that because of that he'd decided to make SOME changes, if only to quit pretending he has any interest in being with anyone else.

BTW, I want to clarify that I think in Ennis' mind there's a difference between "the relationship," which makes him uncomfortable for the obvious reasons, and his feelings toward Jack, whom he loves genuinely, romantically and without reservation. In the end, he realizes he shouldn't have made the distinction.

The elk reference as an aphrodisiac metaphor -- good one!

Offline Aussie Chris

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2006, 04:59:49 am »
Quote
No, as I said in my earlier post, I think that Ennis is desperate to keep Jack.  You can't make love to a person for 20 years and have the kinds of passionate encounters and incredible moments of intimacy and not know on some level that this is love and a romantic relationship. We're only allowed to see a few of these moments by the filmmakers... we have to extrapolate and realize that there really are 20 years of long chats, confessions, "happy tussles," tent scenes and kisses, etc.  This is what makes Ennis's life exciting and meaningful (aside from his kids).  How could he not know how significant all of this is?  He believes he's making great sacrifices in order to facilitate this relationship too.


Ahhh Amanda, I think I'll just have to come up with some more questions to test you.  I lust love listening to you talk about everything Brokeback - You are my BBM Oracle.  Whenever I find myself focusing too much on the dialogue in a specific scene, you help me see the big picture.  Bless you girl.

Quote
Not to sound like I'm totally equivocating about what I said above about the possibility of Ennis sabotaging the relationship, but I agree with this. If Ennis WAS sabotaging -- extremely arguable, but there's something about his "not often" in the Thanksgiving scene that I find ominous -- it was only BEFORE this big argument (maybe "minimize" the relationship is a better description; I don't see him breaking it off completely). But during the argument he saw that he was seriously at risk of losing Jack, and it really upset him. And I, too, believe that his breaking up with Cassie signals that because of that he'd decided to make SOME changes, if only to quit pretending he has any interest in being with anyone else.

And latjoreme, thanks to you also.  I see your heart's in exactly the right place.  As you can now see, I didn't mean "sabotage" to mean the same as "end", only to temper it so that it had less control over him.  Maybe trying to keep Jack just a little more distant because he couldn't commit the way he should or wanted to, which was just as painful for Ennis as it was for Jack.

And I love the idea that maybe the argument and ending the relationship with Cassie was the beginning of a change in how Ennis viewed his relationship with Jack.  I know this is just wishful thinking on my part, but it does fit in with the events and is supported by Ennis' final redemption.  Kind of makes me sad though if Ennis was maybe considering changing his ways and live with Jack, but Jack dies before he make it a reality.

Thanks also to Sheyne, opinionista, and David, you've all been most helpful this week.
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,757
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2006, 11:31:40 am »
Thanks, Chris. I hope you do pose some more of these intriguing questions. I love these discussions.

A bit OT maybe, but today I was just going about my business when I started thinking about Ennis' fate and BURST INTO TEARS. Keep in mind that I don't have the DVD, haven't seen the movie in a month or so. I tried reminding myself that, hey, these are fictional characters (however much their story may reflect thousands or millions of real-life ones). But that didn't help. It was just too sad. What is with me? As someone asked a long time ago back on the imdb board, when does the devastation end???

moremojo

  • Guest
Re: The archetypal dimension to BBM
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2006, 01:46:25 pm »
Thanks, Chris. I hope you do pose some more of these intriguing questions. I love these discussions.

A bit OT maybe, but today I was just going about my business when I started thinking about Ennis' fate and BURST INTO TEARS. Keep in mind that I don't have the DVD, haven't seen the movie in a month or so. I tried reminding myself that, hey, these are fictional characters (however much their story may reflect thousands or millions of real-life ones). But that didn't help. It was just too sad. What is with me? As someone asked a long time ago back on the imdb board, when does the devastation end???
Some folks on TOB on IMDb insist that when we cry over BBM, we are really crying over ourselves, our regrets, disappointments, and fears regarding our own lives. While I recognize some truth in this, this doesn't explain the extent and duration of the strange grieving I have been experiencing for over two months now over this story.

I think the heartbreak at the core of the story is existential and archetypal in quality. Pain and sorrow are inherent in merely existing (at least existing in this one dimension of reality), and the story highlights this fact in such a poignant and real way. Ennis becomes an avatar of Loneliness, a universal exemplar of a universal human emotion--he will forever be ensconced in his story, alone, in love, and bereft of his heart's desire. No amount of working through our own processes, trying to get on with our lives, will ever change this. To paraphrase Joseph Conrad, there is an intransigent 'heart of darkness' at the center of this beautiful, troubling tale, that is tied inextricably to the human condition. Ennis transcends fiction when we are confronted by this, for we all become Ennis, insofar as we are moved and transformed by his story, and must bear the burden of learning how to comfort the loneliness and pain in our own hearts. We cannot escape our painful humanity, at least while we still draw breath, but we can try to mitigate this with joy and love. Indeed, the movie's implications challenge us to do so, and in offering this gift, it stands as perhaps the most important film yet made.

Scott
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 07:01:18 pm by moremojo »

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,757
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2006, 01:54:47 pm »
Beautiful post, Scott!

Offline twistedude

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,430
  • "It's nobody's business but ours."
    • "every sort of organized noise"
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2006, 12:26:46 am »
Whoever said "Mexico was hot, I mean.." could have simply stopped with Mexcico was hot. Even Ennis had heard what they had in Mexico for boys like you...I like the way JaCk doesn't back down, or get insulted: "You have no idea how bad it gets!" "I'm not youl I can';t make it on a couple of high altitude fucks once ior twice a year."  "..and then you say you'll kill me for needin' something I almost never get"--you tell him, Jack.

Someone said Jack mentioned being partneRs twice..he mentions it almost every time he sees Ennis! First after the reunion, after the diVorce, the previous time they were together, when he suggests Ennis move to Texas, only to be greeted by saRCASM, AND i THINK WE GET THE IDEA THAT THE SUGGESTION HAS not BEEN LIMITED TO THE TIMES WE'VE HEARD IT.

Sometimes I get so mad at Ennis, you'd think I'd married him...
"We're each of us alone, to be sure. What can you do but hold your hand out in the dark?" --"Nine Lives," by Ursula K. Le Guin, from The Wind's Twelve Quarters

Offline Ellemeno

  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • ********
  • Posts: 15,367
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2006, 04:55:02 am »
Forgive me if this has already been said in the thread, I don't seem to be alert enough to read through it all now.

Chris, I asked this question once.  Because Ennis's comeback about Mexico seems like such a non sequitur.  And the answer I got that rang right to me (but I forgot which of our wise pals said it) was that when Jack says, "I did once," Ennis feels so guilty that he turns the negative focus on Jack by bringing up trips to Mexico, to take the shame/guilt spotlight off himself.

Offline Aussie Chris

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2006, 06:45:56 am »
Chris, I asked this question once.  Because Ennis's comeback about Mexico seems like such a non sequitur.  And the answer I got that rang right to me (but I forgot which of our wise pals said it) was that when Jack says, "I did once," Ennis feels so guilty that he turns the negative focus on Jack by bringing up trips to Mexico, to take the shame/guilt spotlight off himself.

You're forgiven Clarissa.  It took a lot of work, but our wise pals eventually managed to explain this in a way that I could understand.  As you said: non sequitur (which I had to look up by the way).  But that's the point - it doesn't follow that Mexico comes after "I once did..." becuase it's just Ennis' guilty/angry reaction to Jack's challenge.
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare

Offline Aussie Chris

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Re: The archetypal dimension to BBM
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2006, 07:27:47 am »
I think the heartbreak at the core of the story is existential and archetypal in quality. Pain and sorrow are inherent in merely existing (at least existing in this one dimension of reality), and the story highlights this fact in such a poignant and real way. Ennis becomes an avatar of Loneliness, a universal exemplar of a universal human emotion--he will forever be ensconced in his story, alone, in love, and bereft of his heart's desire. No amount of working through our own processes, trying to get on with our lives, will ever change this. To paraphrase Joseph Conrad, there is an intransigent 'heart of darkness' at the center of this beautiful, troubling tale, that is tied inextricably to the human condition. Ennis transcends fiction when we are confronted by this, for we all become Ennis, insofar as we are moved and transformed by his story, and must bear the burden of learning how to comfort the loneliness and pain in our own hearts. We cannot escape our painful humanity, at least while we still draw breath, but we can try to mitigate this with joy and love. Indeed, the movie's implications challenge us to do so, and in offering this gift, it stands as perhaps the most important film yet made.

Wow Scott, that was truly amazing and powerful.  I had to refer to my dictionary no less than three times, but now that I'm up to speed I can safely say I think your spot on.  Very cool!

Quote
A bit OT maybe, but today I was just going about my business when I started thinking about Ennis' fate and BURST INTO TEARS. Keep in mind that I don't have the DVD, haven't seen the movie in a month or so. I tried reminding myself that, hey, these are fictional characters (however much their story may reflect thousands or millions of real-life ones). But that didn't help. It was just too sad. What is with me? As someone asked a long time ago back on the imdb board, when does the devastation end???

What's with you Katherine?  Well I have a theory: I actually think that Brokies the world over, and particularly those of us that spend time sharing and supporting each other, have been fundamentally changed in ways that are both unexpected and (still) underestimated.  I've noticed that many of us seem moved on a daily basis, sad sometimes, but often just feeling their emotions more deeply and completely than ever before.  I am convinced that this in not a mere obsession for a film, adoration for the actors, or even empathy for the characters in the story - all of these are in and of themselves quite true but they cannot explain the commonality (and longevity) of the effects and the processes at work.  I put it to you and everyone else here that what we are experiencing is evolutionary, not revolutionary, and we will never be the same as we were before.  Hallelujah, amen, and blessed be!
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare

EnnisDelMar

  • Guest
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2006, 01:26:54 pm »
This has already been said I'm sure, but I'm too impatient to read all the other posts..

I think the "I did once" refers to when he asked Ennis "What if you and me had a little ranch somewhere, little cow and calf operation..."

« Last Edit: April 27, 2006, 01:35:01 pm by EnnisDelMar »

Offline Brown Eyes

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,377
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2006, 09:28:44 pm »
Remaining OT for the moment...

Keep in mind that I don't have the DVD, haven't seen the movie in a month or so. I tried reminding myself that, hey, these are fictional characters (however much their story may reflect thousands or millions of real-life ones). But that didn't help. It was just too sad. What is with me? As someone asked a long time ago back on the imdb board, when does the devastation end???

I'm shocked and amazed by this bit of information about how long it's been since you've seen the movie!  :o   I've been assuming that you've been re-watching the movie scene by scene like lots of us.  Well, beware!  The DVD only heightens BBM fever to a crazy level.  Someone on a thread here at BetterMost once said it took them 4 hours to watch the movie the first time on DVD... and it's so true.  One of these days I will watch the movie straight-through again (without re-watching certain scenes over and over again or without just turning the movie off halfway through).  It's amazingly hard to do though with a remote in your hand.

Lately I've found watching the 2nd half of the film particularly difficult.  The devastation truly stays the same or gets worse.  I have never experienced this with a movie before.  Under any normal circumstance all of this over-analyzing would have made the movie seem old or lose it's impact on a pure emotional level.  This is certainly not so with BBM.  And I agree with julie01, Ennis is just super frustrating to me lately (I still love him too of course).

Also... Thanks for the nice comment Aussie Chris.
 :D
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline EnnisLovesJack

  • Sr. Ranch Hand
  • ***
  • Posts: 83
  • Jack Nasty love me!
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2006, 10:07:38 pm »
Ok, I have a question that occured to me on my first viewing that I only remembered today.  I've been trying to catch up on historical Tremblay posts, and today I came across the topic: "An interesting thread from the main IMDB board...".  This *was* an interesting read, and in it there was a reference to the scene where Jack says "I did once".

Huh?  Am I missing something?  How is this a "better idea"?  Have you Tremblayans discussed this before?  Sorry if you have and I've not come across it yet.
Heya Chris,

That's funny. I had the exact same question the first couple times I saw the movie! I even started a thread about it, on IMDB BBM board. Maybe that's the one that you saw refrenced on the Trembaly board....?

Some great people chimed in and answered the question for me, very satisfyingly. You probably have all the answers you need by now, thanks to all our brilliant brokie friends here. Miraculously, my "I did once" thread is still up on the IMDB board. Here's the link. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/board/flat/35219370?d=38434936#38434936

Well, guess I'll see you around, Chris. (Cue you climbing into your truck and drivin' off, and me getting smaller and smaller in your rearview mirror. ;))

Keren/ELJ
Jack Nasty loves you!

Offline Brown Eyes

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,377
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2006, 10:48:07 pm »
Heya EnnisLovesJack,
Nice to see you over here on BetterMost.  I love that old "I did once" thread.  Brilliant.  Yes, I just went back over to the old board to briefly check something and I was amazed to see how many of the good threads are actually still surviving.  If the "Jack and the Wind" thread ever gets zapped by trolls I'll have to go into mourning or something.  I almost never post over on imdb anymore (once in a blue moon I'll bump something or make a quick comment... but that's about it).  It makes me sad.  It was fun over there in the good old days.
 :-\
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline EnnisLovesJack

  • Sr. Ranch Hand
  • ***
  • Posts: 83
  • Jack Nasty love me!
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2006, 11:38:04 pm »
Heya atz,

Thank you!  ;D  What was your IMDB user name? I've been enjoying your posts here on BetterMost.

Yep, I've been there a time or two the last couple weeks, mostly to read, not post. Yep, some good old theads remain. Also found some great new ones. Yes, we had us a damn good there on IMDB. What makes me sad about it is the inexplicable drive those trolls had to hurt us, eviscerate the symposium we created. But I'm loving this new home. It's got some really great features IMDB ain't got. (My grammar, spelling and speech have changed cmpletely since the movie.  ;)) I LOVE the cowboy smileys! Love 'em to pieces. And there's so much more to love, here, too.

Since there ain't never enough time, never enough, I spend most of it here, only ocassionally visiting the "old country."  ;)

 

Keren/ELJ
Jack Nasty loves you!

Offline Aussie Chris

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2006, 06:30:02 am »
That's funny. I had the exact same question the first couple times I saw the movie! I even started a thread about it, on IMDB BBM board. Maybe that's the one that you saw refrenced on the Trembaly board....?

Some great people chimed in and answered the question for me, very satisfyingly. You probably have all the answers you need by now, thanks to all our brilliant brokie friends here. Miraculously, my "I did once" thread is still up on the IMDB board. Here's the link. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/board/flat/35219370?d=38434936#38434936

Thanks Karen & Amanda.  I'm so glad that I wasn't the only one that was confused by this.  Actually Karen, I'm grateful that you included the IMDB link because there were a couple of other gems in there that we hadn't covered here: Ennis reacting defensively in the break-up with Cassie and the fact that Ennis was triple-orphaned.  These insights have given me a much better understanding of Ennis and his modus operandi.  So now I can watch the argument and see Jack say "I did once" meaning the cow-and-calf operation (check), Ennis reacting angrily thinking that he might lose Jack (check), and Ennis using the previously mentioned Mexico as the place where Jack might be straying to (check - check - check). ;D

So now I wonder what would have happened in this scene if Jack hadn't mentioned Mexico???  Arrrgh, sorry, sorry, that hurts my head too!  But wow, what a film that the (seemingly) insignificant line "why are we always in the cold, we should go south where it's warm" is critically used to set up the argument dialogue for Ennis to "attack" Jack - God I love this film!!! :D
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare

Offline Brown Eyes

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,377
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2006, 09:30:25 pm »
Heya atz,

Thank you!  ;D  What was your IMDB user name? I've been enjoying your posts here on BetterMost.


Keren/ELJ

Heya ELJ,
I'm amandazehnder over on imdb.   :D

That "I did once" thread really is great.  I love that a shift in grammar can be so important. 

cheers!
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline southendmd

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,039
  • well, I won't
Re: I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2014, 01:56:12 pm »
Another bump for Throwback Wednesday. 

Great thread.