Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Would it have worked? Merged with "Would a SWEET LIFE ever have been possible?"
nakymaton:
--- Quote from: Scott6373 on September 25, 2006, 02:58:18 pm ---Still, the question you present haunts me. The makers of the film have stated that they did not intend or want to make a "gay statement" film. So I guess if you look at this film, solely, the answer would have to be no. They did no injustice by not focusing on the external struggle.
--- End quote ---
I know I wouldn't have gone to see a "gay statement" film multiple times, and probably wouldn't still be discussing it. I just don't enjoy movies in the which the message comes through too strongly or too obviously, no matter how right the message is -- I like subtlety in art. (I do watch documentaries, sometimes, especially when I'm convinced that they are about an important topic. But I don't watch them multiple times, and I certainly don't have dreams about them.)
I've seen a lot of men explain, over and over, how this or that thing in the movie really is something they have gone through. I hope it's not too horrible to keep talking about it. I think that the conversations may be more important than the actual movie in changing the world. (*gets all idealistic and Jack-like for a moment* ;) )
--- Quote ---The question then becomes, does Hollywood do an injustice by not showing this struggle more truthfully. I think we all know the answer to that one.
--- End quote ---
Well, Hollywood and the entertainment industry showed their homophobia in many ways when BBM was released, with all the talk of whether Heath and Jake were afraid for their careers, and all the homophobic jokes, and the big surprise at the end of Oscar night. (But then... did Hollywood make honest movies about the Civil Rights movement when it was going on? For all Hollywood's supposed progressiveness, I don't think it really leads the culture as a whole.)
Scott6373:
--- Quote from: nakymaton on September 27, 2006, 08:46:54 am ---I hope it's not too horrible to keep talking about it. I think that the conversations may be more important than the actual movie in changing the world. (*gets all idealistic and Jack-like for a moment* ;) )
--- End quote ---
Of course remembering emotionally and phsyically painfull events is always difficult, it is also the only way we can come to a better understanding of how the events in our lives have truly formed us. There does come a time, when we need to move past those events, just so that we can keep on keeping on, but there will always be (as is evidenced by places like this and other forums) folks who need to still work through the demons that are/were resurrected by this film.
I completely agree with you that the sharing and conversations are of far more value at this point than the film. I still find it hard to believe that the film makers had no idea that it would have this kind of far reaching emotional impact.
jpwagoneer1964:
--- Quote from: Scott6373 on September 27, 2006, 07:55:04 am ---
Secondly, if we are talking specifically about the question at hand: Would Ennis & Jack have had the sweet life?, in a roundabout way, you answerred it. The answer would have been no. Jack was already on his way to a more complete understanding of himself and his sexuality (he still had a long way to go), and Ennis was not even close! Sure, they could have TRIED to live togather under the circumstances that you wrote, but eventually, it would have been Jack who would have been the one that wanted to move forward and live a more open and complete life, and it is highly doubtfull that Ennis would have been able to do that, ever. That alone would have driven them apart eventually. I've seen it happen all to many times, and with far more educated and enlightened people than those two.
--- End quote ---
I think Jack main interest was being with Ennis, did not care about being 'out" as just having Ennis. He would have been more than willing to live where ever Ennis would feel at least somewhat comfortable.
Scott6373:
--- Quote from: jpwagoneer1964 on September 27, 2006, 11:11:30 am --- i think Jack main interest was being with Ennis, did care about being 'out" as just having Ennis. He would have been more than willing to live where ever Ennis would feel at least somewhat comfortable.
--- End quote ---
Oh I respectfully diasgree. I think Jack, though far more the dreamer, was much more progressive than that. He was the more daring of the two, and it would only have a matter of time before he needed to be out (in the total sense of the word) in the larger world.
Katie77:
--- Quote from: Scott6373 on September 27, 2006, 07:55:04 am ---As for the second part of your post, I would like to address it in two parts.
First, I (and I think I can safely speak for all gay people) do not want to be just tolerated, nor do I want to "play the part" that middle, heterocentric America wants me to, just so that I am not the victim of discrimination and violence. When you say "and it didnt necessarily have to be out on show", and "To compare the lifestyle and problems of gays with African Americans, is to me, not a good comparison", the hair on the back of my neck litteraly stood on end. I am not saying that you are homphobic by any means, but do you realize how that sounds? There is so much ingrained and quietly insidious intolerance toward gays, and for that matter all oppressed minority groups (women included), that we often don't even know how hurtfull what we are saying really is.
Secondly, if we are talking specifically about the question at hand: Would Ennis & Jack have had the sweet life?, in a roundabout way, you answerred it. The answer would have been no. Jack was already on his way to a more complete understanding of himself and his sexuality (he still had a long way to go), and Ennis was not even close! Sure, they could have TRIED to live togather under the circumstances that you wrote, but eventually, it would have been Jack who would have been the one that wanted to move forward and live a more open and complete life, and it is highly doubtfull that Ennis would have been able to do that, ever. That alone would have driven them apart eventually. I've seen it happen all to many times, and with far more educated and enlightened people than those two.
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I am glad Scott, that you didnt call me "homophobic"...that would be as insulting to me as calling me a bad mother.
I agree that sometimes my words relate to "problems of gays" and other such phrases, but it is for want of a better way of describing things...when I use words such as "problems" or "lifestyle" I am using words that society uses, not words i would prefer to use.
When I think of gay people, or talk about a gay person, my thought is that they live their lives the same way as everyone else does, the only difference with them is, is that they love someone of the same sex....a simple non dramatic explanation, which i find difficult that some people cant relate to or understand. I guess thats why I said in my post that they dont necessarily have to be out in the open to have enjoyed a life together....to me, what goes on behind closed doors with either straight or gay people doesnt have to be out there on display for everyone to see, nor does it have to be "out there" to succeed happily.
And we are looking at it as it was in the 60's....when it was illegal.....they really didnt have a lot of choice until laws were changed.
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