Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
what's the point of the job switch?
TJ:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on May 11, 2006, 09:09:13 am ---TJ, I'd say you got that right about Ennis's father. I forget where or what thread it was on, but somewhere I myself have said that today, his forcing Ennis and K.E. to look at that desecrated body--and in my not-so-humble-opinion desecrated is the only word for it--might be construed as abusive behavior.
--- End quote ---
I consider all human beings holy as in consecrated for a purpose in life, or made to be sacred. I agree with your opinion, Jeff.
What Ennis's father did was child abuse and while it was not physical as such, it was both psychological and spiritual abuse.
Jesus, aka the Christ, said, "Do not fear those who can kill the body but not the soul; but, fear the one who can destroy both body and soul in hell." (The Greek word translated as "soul" here is "psyche." "Hell" aka "Gehenna" was a place outside of Jerusalem where rubbish and dead things were burned around the clock, 24/7 - 7/52.
One time my mother told me about that verse and she said it had to do with verbal abuse.
Ennis's father probably had not planned to do so; but, what he did was a destruction of Ennis's soul and he made the rest of Ennis's life hell because Ennis was in denial of his sexual orientation and was afraid of people finding that out.
Jeff Wrangler:
Bump, because some things discussed in this thread are relevant to a discussion of the story motel scene over on the Open Forum board.
starboardlight:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on May 11, 2006, 09:09:13 am ---Chris, I like your synthesis! You know, I avoided bringing it up because I thought it wasn't fair for discussion, but I do think that one aspect of the "internalized homophobia" perspective is that I think it's easier to grasp if you've been there, and I've been there, too. I know this is one factor in my "identification" with Ennis.
--- End quote ---
Forgive me for revisiting the debate, but I just want to point out that "internalized homophobia" doesn't necessarily mean that you can't accept being queer. There are different degrees and stages of it, having been there myself as well. There's not being able to see oneself as queer. But then one can also realize that one is queer but still be ashamed of it. For my interpretation, this is where movie Ennis is, by the time we see him at the lake side showdown. For me, his statement in an earlier scene "you ever get the feeling ... they look at you like they know?" means that he knows he's queer. Even his telling about Rich and Earl, drawing a parallel between the two old birds with Ennis and Jack, shows he understands that they're queer and would be killed for it. His sexual identity is not the part he's struggling with anymore. What he struggles with is not being able to see a place for himself and Jack in the world. It's crucial to my understanding of the scene, that his breakdown isn't about his sexual identity, but rather about finally confronting the hopelessness of not being able to really be with Jack because he can't see a place for them in the world.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: starboardlight on May 19, 2006, 12:10:39 pm ---Forgive me for revisiting the debate, but I just want to point out that "internalized homophobia" doesn't necessarily mean that you can't accept being queer. There are different degrees and stages of it, having been there myself as well. There's not being able to see oneself as queer. But then one can also realize that one is queer but still be ashamed of it.
--- End quote ---
Good point, Nipith, and I couldn't agree more. I'm a little unsure where exactly he stands in his acceptance by the time of the lakeside showdown, but I think he knows it by then, even if he's still pretty uncomfortable with it. In fact, this will be controversial but I would venture that he may already know it up on Brokeback when he says "I ain't queer" -- he has noticed that he's attracted to men but denies it because, to him, that's just not acceptable. But the movie is partly about his moving toward acceptance. His trip to Jack's parents' house shows he has fully reached it.
And this
--- Quote from: starboardlight on May 19, 2006, 12:10:39 pm --- It's crucial to my understanding of the scene, that his breakdown isn't about his sexual identity, but rather about finally confronting the hopelessness of not being able to really be with Jack because he can't see a place for them in the world.
--- End quote ---
is how I feel about that scene, too. He still believes he can't fix it, but can't stand it no more, either.
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on May 19, 2006, 12:45:46 pm ---But the movie is partly about his moving toward acceptance. His trip to Jack's parents' house shows he has fully reached it.
--- End quote ---
Would you like to elaborate a bit more on that last sentence, Katherine? As you know, I don't believe Ennis was fully in connection with himself until he found the shirts, but that's not my point here. But to say that Ennis's trip to Jack's parents' house shows that he has fully accepted his homosexuality seems a bit much, or at least, maybe, an oversimplification.
On the face of it, the statement appears to ignore that the widow of his best friend has asked him to make that trip to Lightning Flat to see about the disposition of his best friend's ashes in accordance with his best friend's stated wishes. Even an Ennis who was still in total and complete denial might have been expected to do that for the best friend he ever had.
OK, true, Lureen just asked him to be "in touch" with Jack's parents, she didn't literally ask him to make the trip, but I think we need to suppose that he didn't call or write first--or if he did, he didn't mention the disposition of Jack's ashes. Otherwise surely he would have been told, no, the ashes are going in the family plot, and there would have been no reason for him to make the trip, other than, perhaps to pay a condolence call on the parents of his best friend, or visit the grave if the ashes had already been interred. But that would still be something that might be expected of an Ennis who was still in total and complete denial.
So I guess in the end I have to come right out and say that I don't think the fact that Ennis made that trip to Lightning Flat proves anything in and of itself with regard to Ennis's journey to self-acceptance. Sorry.
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