Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
what's the point of the job switch?
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on April 28, 2006, 01:22:23 pm ---I'm not sure I personally I would use the word "objection" to what I said about the stereotypical roles, but it did make me feel very unhappy when I noticed it, because, especially in Jack's case, it is stereotypical (like the homophobic "which one's the wife" question), like I expected better of Annie Proulx.
--- End quote ---
I understand what you're saying, Jeff, and it's unfortunate. But maybe the problem, rather than the product of homophobic stereotyping, is an unavoidable result of storytelling requirements. Jack needs to be housekeeper in order to set up the Jack/Alma conflict. And it's hard to imagine the first tent scene going differently. Though I guess I've always assumed things DID go differently as their relationship progressed. Granted, this isn't my area of expertise. Would there be another way around this problem?
Also, I don't have the story in front of me, so I could easily be wrong, but doesn't Annie leave the "receptive" and "active" designations more ambiguous? I just remember her reference to a furtive unbuckling of belts or something like that.
And as for this
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on April 28, 2006, 03:06:38 pm ---Regardless of sexual attraction, conscious or otherwise, I think as the days pass Ennis is simply having more fun in Jack's company than the poor kid probably ever had in his life, so it gets more and more difficult as time passes for him to go back to the sheep.
Mind you, I'm not saying the sexual attraction isn't a factor or isn't growing as the time passes, just that I think there is additional factor here, Ennis's plain human loneliness.
For that matter, I think the simple fun he has in Jack's company is a factor in the growing sexual attraction. People who are fun to be with are more sexually attractive than people who aren't fun to be with--at least they are for me, personally.
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You are so right about the importance of that, although I would argue that the movie establishes it fairly well -- particularly in the "wha?" scene and the goofy rodeo imitation scene, where it seems like Ennis is smiling for the first time in years. Come to think of it, though, I can imagine ways to dramatize "paw the white out of the moon" that would have been nice (more smiling! always welcome). But in any case, yes, Ennis' loneliness is such a sad and touching thing. It's like what we were talking about the other day, regarding the most important loss to Ennis when Jack died: his best and only friend.
moremojo:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on April 28, 2006, 10:24:19 am ---
One thing has disturbed me: When I realized that after they made the job switch, when they did begin to have sex, Jack, the "receptive" partner, as camp tender, was now in the "traditional female role" of "housekeeper," whereas Ennis, the "active" partner, was in the "traditional male role" of "going out to work." Ouch. Say it ain't so, Annie Proulx!
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Hi, Jeff Wrangler,
I think Proulx and the filmmakers might have been intentionally going along this line of thinking, however distasteful it is for so many contemporary lesbigay readers and viewers. I'm not trying to say that there is any homophobia on the artists' part, but I do think that Jack harbors qualities that our culture traditionally deems 'feminine' (i.e., he is nurturing, sensitive, tender, and yielding), and Ennis may have been in part responding to some of these characteristics. Ennis is definitely homophobic, and in his eyes, if he is going to relate intimately to Jack, he may think he's darn well going to be the 'man' in the situation, implicitly placing Jack in the 'woman's' position. I'm not saying this is the way it actually is or should be, but it would be consistent with the mindset of the time and place in which the boys exist.
I'm hypothesizing of course, but I find this angle a useful way to approach Jack and Ennis's specific relationship, at least at its beginning. I disagree with the emphatic argument many make that Jack is wholly masculine in his persona--I see him as an integrated blend of the masculine and the feminine, and in this, he is actually more whole and healthier than Ennis.
Scott
delalluvia:
--- Quote ---Ennis may have been in part responding to some of these characteristics. Ennis is definitely homophobic, and in his eyes, if he is going to relate intimately to Jack, he may think he's darn well going to be the 'man' in the situation, implicitly placing Jack in the 'woman's' position. I'm not saying this is the way it actually is or should be, but it would be consistent with the mindset of the time and place in which the boys exist.
--- End quote ---
Well said more.
And you guys...I said it once, I'll say it agian. Jack was EXCELLENT with a can opener! The can opened right up. It's just he had problems handling the contents. Which I guess still ties into Jack getting Ennis to open up if you want to look at it that way.
Heh, either way, opening up a can or opening up Ennis, he gets splattered with the results. O0
moremojo:
--- Quote from: delalluvia on April 28, 2006, 07:52:06 pm ---
Heh, either way, opening up a can or opening up Ennis, he gets splattered with the results. O0
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A wonderful thought for my evening! Thanks! :laugh:
starboardlight:
--- Quote from: delalluvia on April 28, 2006, 07:52:06 pm ---Heh, either way, opening up a can or opening up Ennis, he gets splattered with the results. O0
--- End quote ---
lol. hrm my mind is going the wrong direction, or the right direction, depending on your mood.
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