Ashes Scattered on Brokeback? -- by acjohnson42

[TOoP/Bruce]

REPOST
==============================================================
Ashes Scattered on Brokeback?
by - acjohnson42 (Sun Mar 26 2006 22:40:18 )   

I recently saw the movie and was a little confused at the end. When Ennis went to Jack's house to retrieve his shirt was he also given Jack's ashes to scatter then on Brokeback Mountain? I was thinking this was the case because he went back to the house, Jack's father made a big deal about burying Jack in the 'family plot' and Jack's mom helped Ennis put the shirt in a bag and sort of led him to the door thanking him. Anyone have any similar thoughts?


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - hibbler (Sun Mar 26 2006 22:44:27 )   

No, Jack's father refused to let him have the ashes, and Ennis left with only the shirts. Jack's mother was so nice to Ennis because she knew he loved her son, at least that's what alot of people think.


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - miren_30 6 days ago (Tue Mar 28 2006 07:10:30 )   

In some other thread somebody pointed ou that when Jacks mom told ennis to "come and see us again" she meant him to go back after Mr. Twist died and then they would fullfill Jacks wish (to scatter his ashes on Brokeback....). I like to think that is exactly what happened...


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - oilgun 6 days ago (Tue Mar 28 2006 07:24:33 )   

meant him to go back after Mr. Twist died and then they would fullfill Jacks wish (to scatter his ashes on Brokeback


Ooh, I like that that idea! The thought of Jack's two "half-ashed" graves is kinda depressing.


They have witnessed a kind of fury in him that they have never seen before-BM


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - bok602 6 days ago (Tue Mar 28 2006 07:41:18 )   

If you watch carefully, an inordinate amount of attention (and screen time) is called to Jack's mom going off into the kitchen and wrapping the shirt in that paper bag, which happens almost concurrently with the discussion of ashes.

There is also a very unusual -almost awkward- insert shot of her handing him the bag; plainly and clearly calling attention to it.

Upon my first viewing of the film I was convinced that Jack's mom had also snuck in Jack's ashes.

I am convinced that if she didn't switch out the entire container, she at least gave him a goodly portion of them, since it seemed obvious that SHE shared Jack's wish that he be scattered where he wanted.

"If you don't know the answer -change the question."


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - doelcm 6 days ago (Tue Mar 28 2006 07:43:16 )   

In some other thread somebody pointed ou that when Jacks mom told ennis to "come and see us again" she meant him to go back after Mr. Twist died and then they would fullfill Jacks wish (to scatter his ashes on Brokeback....). I like to think that is exactly what happened...
I like to think that the ashes don't matter. They were important only to get Ennis to visit Jack's room and find the shirts.

Ennis needed some kind of closure, and he thought (and we thought) that the ashes would do that. Once he found the shirts, he got his closure, and it was SO much better than ashes.

Scattering the ashes would have shown that Jack meant something to Ennis, but not the other way around. The shirts show how much they meant to each other.

Jack's dad can have the ashes. He lost his only son. As mean as he was, I think he loved Jack. I think Jack's mom knew the significance of the shirts, and she had no intention of betraying her husband before or after his death.
-----
I love Mister Bungee--yes indeedy (here's your ziti)!


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - moonjammer 6 days ago (Tue Mar 28 2006 07:51:08 )   

I think if Ennis had gotten the ashes from Jack's mom they would have shown that in the movie. The thought did cross my mind that maybe she did that but I dimissed as wishful thinking on my part. It just adds to the sadness of Jacks death that his wishes were not carry out.

Keep bending me until I am completely broken!


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - taj_e 6 days ago (Tue Mar 28 2006 08:54:50 )   

doelcm
I agree. If there's anything Jack wished Ennis to do/find, it must have been the fact that he understood how Jack 'missed him so much he can't stand' it'/that love (I called it grace)/the shirt
I do feel that he buried Jack 'proper'... the shirts=ashes next to BBM picture
Clearly emphasized on the redemption ending

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/board/thread/38161424?d=38161424#38161424


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - MtBecky 6 days ago (Tue Mar 28 2006 09:03:00 )   

I don't agree bok, It's a nice thought, but if she had given him the ashes, there would have been some indication of it after he left Jack's parents. Either showing Ennis scattering them on Brokeback or having them in the trailer with him, until he could get a chance to take them up to the mountain.
It wasn't in the short story either, so Annie didn't intend for that to happen.

Maybe when he uttered the words, "I swear" while looking at the postcard of Brokeback, he was swearing to one day take his ashes up there!

[TOoP/Bruce]

Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback? (spoilerish)   
by - bjblakeslee 6 days ago (Tue Mar 28 2006 09:06:43 )   

I think if Ennis had gotten the ashes from Jack's mom they would have shown that in the movie. The thought did cross my mind that maybe she did that but I dimissed as wishful thinking on my part. It just adds to the sadness of Jacks death that his wishes were not carry out.


Ennis needs to talk to someone who knows Jack. He believes he is an outsider to both families. Having talked to Lureen, he knows that she is suspicious about his relationship with her late husband. Lureen has already solved the problem of who buries Jack by splitting the difference. We are left to imagine how he must have initiated contact with Jack's parents. We are left with the idea that "mothers always know."

I believe that Ennis is reaching out to Lureen and the Twists because he needs to be with someone who knew him to grieve. His intention to take the ashes is well intentioned, but probably isn't the real reason he is seeing them. He has no friends to share his loss with. Jack's family are all he has. He comes away not with a memento of Jack's death, but a symbol of their lives intertwined. Through his loss, Ennis has been changed in a significant way. It represents a fusion of spirits. His willingness to change his schedule shows Ennis has internalized Jack's voice and is willing to listen to it.





Shoot as fast as lightnin' but it loads a mite slow...


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - tmolthan 6 days ago (Tue Mar 28 2006 09:14:33 )   

It's all subjective of course, but I got the feeling that Jack's mother wanted his wishes carried out. Maybe that's what she meant by "You come back and see us"...maybe she intended to give Ennis the ashes then. We will never know if Ennis did go back, and what happened if he did.


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - MtBecky 6 days ago (Tue Mar 28 2006 09:29:36 )   

I would love to find out more of what did happen. But you know, it's probably a good thing that there is no plans to ever finish the story...it seems that sequels just are never as good and sometimes when you think things will turn out one way in your mind, they turn out differently and then your disappointed.

I'm choosing to believe that Ennis does go back after Jack's Dad passes away and Jack's Mother gives him Jack's ashes and he goes up to Brokeback and scatters them, just as Jack wanted. And that's what I'll stick with!


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - bjblakeslee 6 days ago (Tue Mar 28 2006 09:56:56 )   

The beauty of Annie Proulx's story is that she doesn't force feed it to you. There is enough ambiguity there to keep a viewer/reader active...





Shoot as fast as lightnin' but it loads a mite slow...


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - santsa70 6 days ago (Tue Mar 28 2006 10:01:46 )   

Its a nice thought, but something tells me Ennis would be a little too dense to figure out her hidden meaning.


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - santsa70 6 days ago (Tue Mar 28 2006 10:09:36 )   

Absolutely, biblakeslee. In fact, if the movie had one downfall, it was that the ambiguity that was in the story was sorely missing from a lot of the movie. Did you think that he got the ashes from the mom in the book? I pesonally didn't think that was one of those "perhaps this happened" moments in the story, but I'm curious if there was something in the story that made you think so.


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - bjblakeslee 6 days ago (Tue Mar 28 2006 10:47:00 )   


Did you think that he got the ashes from the mom in the book?


I do not. But my opinion is mine and no better than anyone else's. I prefer to concentrate on the theme that we all can live on through the lives we touch. Ennis is transformed by his love for Jack - those of us who care are transformed in our love for these characters.






Shoot as fast as lightnin' but it loads a mite slow...


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - amandazehnder 6 days ago (Tue Mar 28 2006 16:33:10 )   

-"I believe that Ennis is reaching out to Lureen and the Twists because he needs to be with someone who knew him to grieve. His intention to take the ashes is well intentioned, but probably isn't the real reason he is seeing them. He has no friends to share his loss with. Jack's family are all he has. He comes away not with a memento of Jack's death, but a symbol of their lives intertwined. Through his loss, Ennis has been changed in a significant way. It represents a fusion of spirits. His willingness to change his schedule shows Ennis has internalized Jack's voice and is willing to listen to it."

Awesome post!


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - malwood2000 6 days ago (Tue Mar 28 2006 17:29:28 )   

I think it should be noted that Jack's father only refuses to let Ennis have the ashes after Ennis comes downstairs with the shirts. Why would Ennis conceal the ashes in the shirts before he knew Jack's father had changed his mind and decided not to let him have them?

Jack's father says, 'Tell you what, we got a family plot and he's goin in it." Immediately those words are out of her husband's mouth in the film, Jack's mother invites Ennis to come back again. By the quickness of her response it seems to imply she's not just being hospitable, she's giving Ennis a message. As Ennis was actually leaving would have been the more expected point without such urgency for her to invite him back, not the instant the words of refusal are out of her husband's mouth.

After Ennis leaves the Twist ranch, the book says, "Bumping down the washboard road Ennis passed the country cemetery with sagging sheep wire, a tiny fenced square on the welling prarie, a few graves bright with plastic flowers, and didn't want to know Jack was going there, to be buried on the grieving plain." So I think the ashes were still important to Ennis although he has the shirts, and that he will come back again and get some of the ashes saved for him by Jack's mother.


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - tmolthan 6 days ago (Tue Mar 28 2006 20:59:16 )   

That's what I've thought all along. Thanks for posting it.


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - miren_30 6 days ago (Wed Mar 29 2006 02:00:54 )   

Malwood, exactly. I like to think that as well, that Ennis goes back and he finally manages to do what Jacks wanted (at least just that one thing...)

Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - undercarriage 6 days ago (Wed Mar 29 2006 02:06:57 )   
Ignore this User | Report Abuse   
UPDATED Wed Mar 29 2006 02:15:00
I think that it was heavily implied (in the film) that Jack's Mother may have slipped all or some of the ashes into the paper bag when putting the shirts in there.

Why else would she have had a bag ready on the counter and why would she have made a point of rushing over to Ennis in the way she did. There was a very deliberate second when she touches the paper bag and the way she holds it. I think the actress was implying she was giving Ennis the ashes - maybe not all of them. The way that scene was directed calls attention to it as a previous poster suggested.

(I realise whether it was 'all' or 'some' is conjecture on my part however)

Nevertheless Lureen and Jack's parents split the ashes so it would be in keeping with the plot that the ashes could have gone three ways.

The short story doesn't portray Jack's Mother doing anything with a paper bag, however.


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - NewHorizons37 5 days ago (Wed Mar 29 2006 03:59:31 )   

Nope, did not happen. The screenplay makes it clear that just the shirts go in the bag, but I think what you see in the movie makes it clear too. Many people have paper bags on their counter so that proves nothing. Yes, she holds the bag very deliberately, but it is to make clear to Ennis and to us that she understands that the shirts are precious to him.

These conspiracy theories also go against the character she so beautifully portrayed. Neither Mrs. Twist nor Ennis were the underhanded types. Sneaking the ashes out is not something they would have done.


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - NewHorizons37 5 days ago (Wed Mar 29 2006 04:01:31 )   
I think it should be noted that Jack's father only refuses to let Ennis have the ashes after Ennis comes downstairs with the shirts.

Actually, he said "he's going in the family plot" both before and after Ennis went upstairs. This was already decided way before Ennis ever got there.


Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback?   
by - sweet_jensen 5 days ago (Wed Mar 29 2006 04:33:16 )   

has anyone actually read the book?the book also very good...and very emotional.
No Ennis doesnt get the ashes...jacks ashes are buried in the family plot as in the film!
ennis got his closer when he got the shirts

i agree...ennis went to visit first to get closer yes and also to see a different side of jack he never knew...in the end the ashes didnt really matter



"The gratification comes in the doing, not in the results."-james dean

[TOoP/Bruce]

Re: Ashes scattered on Brokeback? (REPOST)   
  by malwood2000   (Tue Mar 13 2007 20:01:17 )   
   
In my copy of the Brokeback Mountain short story Jack's father does not say "He's going in the family plot" both before and after Ennis goes upstairs. He says,"He thought he was too goddamn special to be buried in the family plot" (referring to Jack) before Ennis goes upstairs. And if Jack's father had decided before Ennis's arrival that the ashes were going in the family plot, why weren't they already there, for what were they being saved?