Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > IMDb Remarkable Writings Rewound
Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move-- by CaseyCornelius
TOoP/Bruce:
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - CaseyCornelius (Thu Jan 12 2006 17:43:45 )
I can't imagine that, with the close bond that Ang Lee has with producer Schamus, Lee would not have been consulted with regard to the iconic imagery of the poster. The 'similarity to the Titanic poster' angle has been presented for the purposes of publicity, but, as all of use who are seriously considering this film and its details from every possible perspective, the poster pose you mention is completely in keeping with Ang Lee's filmic preferences.
Thanks for bringing up that detail - I hadn't considered that Lee's vision would extend to the publicity, but why not?
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - flashframe777 (Thu Jan 12 2006 17:46:53 )
UPDATED Thu Jan 12 2006 17:57:01
Hi Spotted,
The camera is on a dolly track. The depth of field includes foreground and background. It's a continuous movement shot - no cuts. I've been on set, and have seen it being done before. When the foreground stays sharp on Jack, the background goes out of focus. When the background is sharp on Ennis, the foreground defocuses. I watched again for it today.
____________
Casey wrote: I have a suspicion from my experience of the local area [though I hate to admit it] that the mountain they used in the background would be nowhere in proximity to the foreground where the rest of the shots takes place - ie. it's in a completely different terrain.
__________________________
You're sharp. There are definitely some shots that have been composited and/or rotoscoped for reasons I believe are sane and tantamount to telling the story. Remember, this is not "Underworld" - it's about nature. But my philosophy about that is shoot what you need, and what you can't achieve in camera - make sure you get it done properly in post.
"You bet." --Ennis del Mar
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - CaseyCornelius (Fri Jan 13 2006 16:30:27 )
flashframe777:
The composited/rotoscoped shots aside, the physical aspect I love most about the film is that there is minimum [if any] use of studio sets, as far as I can tell. Everyone of the interior scenes apprears to be shot 'on location' using existing local buildings in Alberta. All of the Riverton scenes above the laundromat, the sad, decrepit ranch house interiors which Ennis and Alma inhabit, Jack's married home, the bars, the dance/community house set in Childress have a wonderful authenticity to them.
Even the penultimate location in Jack's family farmhouse was shot in an existing house. Granted it was dressed, and worked into a design concept by being painted, dressed, etc.. But, the eerie, otherworldliness of the scene [I've made a case in another thread for it evoking a supernatural scene from Greek tragedy.] is achieved 'on location' with the spectacular photography and lighting, not to mention the staging, blocking, and astonishing internal acting work of Roberta Maxwell, Peter MacRobbie and Heath Ledger.
I love the 'naturalness' which this achieves in the film.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - bradford-5 (Fri Jan 13 2006 16:37:14 )
If you read the American Cinematographer article on the film's photography, you'll find that many of the sceenes you might think are locations, such as the scenes inside the tent, were actually shot on a sound stage.
Steven Bradford
Tempe Arizona
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - flashframe777 (Fri Jan 13 2006 16:43:18 )
I am going to pick up that issue of American Cinematographer...thanks Steven.
"You bet." --Ennis del Mar
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - CaseyCornelius (Fri Jan 13 2006 16:54:03 )
Duh !! OOps.. forgot about the tent scenes !!
Thanks...
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - spottedreptile (Fri Jan 13 2006 17:18:46 )
Hi Spotted,
The camera is on a dolly track. The depth of field includes foreground and background. It's a continuous movement shot - no cuts. I've been on set, and have seen it being done before. When the foreground stays sharp on Jack, the background goes out of focus. When the background is sharp on Ennis, the foreground defocuses. I watched again for it today.
Ok. If you're sure about it, then I'll take your word for it then! I didn't notice it myself, but guess I got that wrong. Hmm, I was hoping it would be a bit more complex than that! oh well.
thanks for clueing me in.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - flashframe777 (Fri Jan 13 2006 18:42:44 )
Spot - that's the real beauty of it, smooth, seemingly simple and fluid. But there was a lot of thought behind it.
"You bet." --Ennis del Mar
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - CaseyCornelius (Fri Jan 13 2006 23:20:12 )
UPDATED Fri Jan 13 2006 23:22:00
flashframe777:
Enjoy your posts and your contributions to the discussion immensely.
I suggest that there is an antipode to the 'revelation' in the blazing sun within the night scene colloquy which you describe as a favorite filmic visual motif.
It follows the 'rejection' by Ennis of Jack's overture to a life together after he has travelled the thousands of miles from Texas in the hopes of finally achieving a relationship with Ennis following the divorce. The film moves from the bright day of rejection into Jack's tearful sorrow in the truck as he resolves a new plan of attack and travels towards Mexico. The abrupt cut to the darkness of night scene in which Jack 'selects' the Mexican hustler contrasts significantly with the 'rejection' scene. And as Jack purposefully moves with the hustler [played as a cameo by the Director of Photography, Rodrigo Prieto] down the alleyway the darkness literally swallows them up. Another amazing shot. To me it expresses that this clandestine, furtive sexuality which Jack is forced to practice is so in contrast to the open, disclosed relationship he dreams of having with Ennis.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - flashframe777 (Fri Jan 13 2006 23:58:43 )
To me it expresses that this clandestine, furtive sexuality which Jack is forced to practice is so in contrast to the open, disclosed relationship he dreams of having with Ennis.
*******************************************************************************************************
Agree wholeheartedly Casey. Proulx stresses the fact that Ennis & Jack's relationship progresses from the darkness of the tent into the light of day.
The shot of Jack disappearing into the dark alley, affects me strangely every time I see it.
"You bet." --Ennis del Mar
TOoP/Bruce:
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - austendw (Sat Jan 14 2006 07:16:11 )
To me it expresses that this clandestine, furtive sexuality which Jack is forced to practice is so in contrast to the open, disclosed relationship he dreams of having with Ennis.
...and also the loss of personality, and identity. Gone are the bright close-ups of the Ennis/Jack scenes, which reveal nuances of gesture and feeling. Here it's pretty much a couple of long shots, in the last of which Jack walks away from us, hiding his face and identity, becoming pretty much anonymous (like the sex) before disappearing into the gloom.
Also, unless I am mistaken (it's a week since I've seen it), Jack says not one word. With Ennis, he's the talkative one. Here he is mute.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - CaseyCornelius (Sat Jan 14 2006 09:21:07 )
UPDATED Sat Jan 14 2006 09:27:42
austendw:
Great observations regarding the Mexico scene.
Your comments remind me that so much if not all of the physical expression of Jake and Enniss's sexuality or emotional intimacy together occurs only under the cover of darkness or gloom - in the tent scenes, the 'reunion' motel, all of the fishing trip colloquies beneath the stars. Their initial admissions to each other - 'one shot thing', 'not queer', 'me neither' - of the attraction that has grabbed hold of them happens in the gloom of an obvious day for night shot on the side of the mountain as well.
All of the emotional and possible societal threats of discovery to their relationship occur in the bright light of day - Ennis's retching scrutinized by the passing cowboy in the alley way as he tries to pound his feelings out of himself following their first parting; the reckless 'reunion' kiss in front of Alma; the white truck driving by, indicative to Ennis of anonymous societal scrutiny, which obviously threatens his composure as he rejects Jack's attention in front of his daughters following the divorce.
The one and only shot of their willful, consensual, intentional, physical intimacy in the bright light of day is the the one where we observe their bare-chested 'horseplay' through Joe Aguirre's binoculars. I find it ironic and telling that the audience always laughs at their discovery by Aguirre, at the point in their lives where Jack and Ennis felt the most free and demonstrative in their love . Ang Lee makes even we who are a sympathetic audience uneasy at this witnessing their naive innocence. It gives the lie to any thought of Jack and Ennis being able to feel safe away from society's scrutiny. Jack never mentions to Ennis that they were 'discovered' by Aguirre and it might be Jack who takes the lead in making their later meetings more discrete. The movement of Jack and the hustler into the exaggerated darkness of the Mexican alleyway is the consequent summation of a visual motif of darkness being indicative of a necessarily furtive and concealed sexuality in the film.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - flashframe777 (Sat Jan 14 2006 10:12:33 )
UPDATED Mon Jan 16 2006 01:31:18
The one and only shot of their willful, consensual, intentional, physical intimacy in the bright light of day is the the one where we observe their bare-chested 'horseplay' through Joe Aguirre's binoculars. I find it ironic and telling that the audience always laughs at their discovery by Aguirre, at the point in their lives where Jack and Ennis felt the most free and demonstrative in their love .
___________________________________________________________________________________
Compare this to the one shot which distills Jack & Ennis' relationship to incorruptable beauty - the flashback of Ennis hugging Jack in the morning before he rides off. It is so private, so meaningful, so pure, that it was hidden from the audience until it has been transmuted by Jack from something ordinary and 3rd dimensional to something spiritually divine and mentally solid. When that moment is revealed it is so profound and so understated that the audience might miss it, or get confused or think it's a mistake. It "sinks beneath your wisdom like a stone."
"You bet." --Ennis del Mar
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - NewHorizons37 (Sat Jan 14 2006 10:24:55 )
UPDATED Sat Jan 14 2006 10:30:30
All of the Riverton scenes above the laundromat, the sad, decrepit ranch house interiors which Ennis and Alma inhabit, Jack's married home, the bars, the dance/community house set in Childress have a wonderful authenticity to them.
One thing I noticed in my last viewing was in the scene where Ennis is arguing with Alma as she goes down the stairs to head to work, you can see hot air coming out of one of those laudromat vents, like a dryer in the laundromat is actually being used.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - flashframe777 (Sat Jan 14 2006 10:36:13 )
hot air coming out of one of those laudromat vents
__________________________________________________
matching the steam that Alma lets off, and the steam flaring from Ennis' nostrils - a little wind disturbing the mix, eh?
"You bet." --Ennis del Mar
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - CaseyCornelius (Sat Jan 14 2006 11:27:45 )
flashframe777 and NewHorizons37:
There's that wind again. On several other threads it's been stated that Jack is associated symbolically with the wind - Joe Aguirre's snarling of "Look what the wind blew in" to Jack as just one verbal association in the screenplay. So might the visual motif of the 'wind disturbing the mix' be yet another symbol of Ennis's relationship with the invisible Jack palpably affecting his relationship with Alma?
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - CaseyCornelius (Sat Jan 14 2006 17:01:22 )
flashframe777:
And befitting the 'spiritually divine' nature of the scene, I believe it opens with an elaborate and striking tracking shot, one of the rare ones in a film devoid of self-conscious camera moves [as you and I have discussed], 'skimming the ground' approaching Jack in front of the fire and then moving upward to catch Ennis coming up behind him. A counterpoint to the elaborate camera work in the scene just previous. It's as if a memory is being inhaled [to mix metaphors] and savored. Or perhaps a holy spirit coming upon the moment and blessing it for eternity.
Talk about incorruptible beauty - great phrase of yours!!
AND, as you're probably aware, the administrators on the IMDB board completely mistook aspects of the flashback and incorrectly labelled it a continuity goof before rectifying it.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - rubin2018 (Sat Jan 14 2006 17:36:20 )
Casey,
I would like to refer to the final scene with
Alma Jr.where she answers her father’s
question and declares her love for Kurt. He
goes into an emotional fog looking off to his
right. I imagine that the whole idea of
ceremonial vows immediately hit him. After
she leaves he picks up her sweater. He holds
it gently as and then brings it to his face
where he is searching for a loving scent.
Minutes later he says “Jack, I swear.” Albeit
tragically too late, it was as if he was
declaring his eternal vow of marriage to Jack.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - rubin2018 (Sat Jan 14 2006 18:00:00 )
You can tell about how much passion Jack felt for Randall
via Jack's dead expression at the former's suggestion of
staying in the cabin. It was almost EXACTLY the way he
looked as he walked off into the darkness with the
prostitute in Mexico.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - flashframe777 (Sat Jan 14 2006 18:06:12 )
I believe it opens with an elaborate and striking tracking shot, one of the rare ones in a film devoid of self-conscious camera moves [as you and I have discussed], 'skimming the ground' approaching Jack in front of the fire and then moving upward to catch Ennis coming up behind him. A counterpoint to the elaborate camera work in the scene just previous.
_____________________________________________________________________________
Casey, thank you.
This prompted me to think of something. It occurs to me that humanity may not be able to hold and relay the fullness of creativity that superconsciouness has prepared for unravelling. However, since emotions are beyond words and often transcends cognitive awareness, it's a viable route to convey and reveal its glory to a lowly human vessel (say, a movie director like Ang Lee).
Simply put, what if when choosing these shots, Ang Lee was moved to follow spiritual emotional cues, trusting that the outcome would be achieved, knowing on a superconscious level that what he was moved to do would be whole, spiritually, mentally, emotionally and physically.
I say this because in my own filmwork, I often I let my heart guide me down a creative path. I look back at the work and wonder how it was ever done, and immediately the logic behind it begins to reveal itself to me.
"You bet." --Ennis del Mar
TOoP/Bruce:
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - rubin2018 (Sat Jan 14 2006 18:09:42 )
It was a third degree psychic (psychological) burn imprint of
their final minutes together that sent Jack into an
increasingly fatalistic phase of his life. Now drinking more
heavily and sexually active with Randall, it is easy to see
that a series of events was put in motion via inappropriate
behavior in public....thus leading to his death.-
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - rubin2018 (Sat Jan 14 2006 18:16:56 )
I am now almost certain that, as planned, Jack must have
driven to his parent's ranch where, on this occasion,
would no longer have spoken Ennis's name.
Out of anger and despair he would more likely have brought
up the subject of separating from Lureen and returning with
a "different guy" to help at the ranch.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - flashframe777 (Sat Jan 14 2006 18:23:57 )
it is easy to see
that a series of events was put in motion via inappropriate
behavior in public....thus leading to his death.-
____________________________________________________________________
Or maybe it was just Jack's time to go. Maybe on some grand scale no one is at fault for any degree of pain suffered in the human drama.
Either that, or everyone, yourself included, is a perpetrator.
"You bet." --Ennis del Mar
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - CaseyCornelius (Sat Jan 14 2006 23:06:12 )
UPDATED Sat Jan 14 2006 23:10:08
flashframe:
I'm a musician by calling, trade, and profession, so I know well how one has to trust to instincts in calling forth the significance from the ineffable and the numinous without recourse to representation of the physical for interpretation and meaning.
I think that's what I love about Brokeback as envisioned by Ang Lee [and his creative associates], and the great directors [Tarkovsky, Bergman among my favorites] who truly treat, respect and employs access to the sub-conscious and trust that it will reach their audiences without recourse to conventional filmic devices, cliches or vocabulary. So little of Brokeback seems 'clever' or 'arty', but, my Lord, how profoundly it's reaching audience members by tapping to a depth which is rarely seen in such an ostensibly 'simple film. Look at what it's pulled out of some of the discussion on only these boards. I hope and pray that others conversing are about it as much.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - Ellemeno (Sun Jan 15 2006 03:34:11 )
And you quote Leonard Cohen. There are some really special people drawn to this board.
In motel "Me?" Ennis pokes his thumb in his own eye O to be that thumb, o to be that eye
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - NewHorizons37 (Sun Jan 15 2006 05:49:38 )
UPDATED Sun Jan 15 2006 05:50:27
Interesting. I was just thinking that it was a nice touch that the laudromat appeared to be real in that scene, not just a set. But now that you mention it: this scene contrasts with the grocery store scene in that Alma is no longer willing to put up with Ennis' chauvinist BS. In the grocery store scene, she took the kids even though it was very inconvenient for her, because he had to go work. Now, several years and several "fishing trips" with Jack later, Alma is no longer being the submissive wife -- she's going to work and Ennis can just stew about her not being there to serve dinner. So yes, the relationship with Jack is a factor in that scene.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - CaseyCornelius (Sun Jan 15 2006 14:01:15 )
Ellemeno:
I have to ask -- who is quoting Leonard Cohen and where?
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - starboardlight (Sun Jan 15 2006 17:24:35 )
Interesting. I was just thinking that it was a nice touch that the laudromat appeared to be real in that scene, not just a set. But now that you mention it: this scene contrasts with the grocery store scene in that Alma is no longer willing to put up with Ennis' chauvinist BS. In the grocery store scene, she took the kids even though it was very inconvenient for her, because he had to go work. Now, several years and several "fishing trips" with Jack later, Alma is no longer being the submissive wife -- she's going to work and Ennis can just stew about her not being there to serve dinner. So yes, the relationship with Jack is a factor in that scene.
I'm not sure if Jack is a factor. I wonder if Alma wouldn't have gotten tired of Ennis's chauvinism in any case. It seemed to me, whether Jack was in the picture or not, their marriage was headed for the rocks no matter what. Ennis just wasn't able to open up to Alma emotionally and wasn't able to provide for her financially. He just wasn't the kind of man she needed, whether Jack was there or not.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - CaseyCornelius (Sun Jan 15 2006 21:54:50 )
UPDATED Sun Jan 15 2006 21:55:53
rubin2018:
I'm right there with you totally in agreement.
Saw the film again tonight and was struck by how Ennis takes Alma, Jr's sweater and sniffs it lovingly the way he first sniffed the two shirts in Jack's boyhood home.
My heart breaks when I think that this is ALL he has left of Jack's presence in his life - no pictures, probably no letters or postcards, no souvenirs of any kind save those two shirts. I cracked inside tonight watching him in Jack's closet, trying desparately to detect some faint, salty, sweaty - any - odor of Jack and not being able to. It's a touch of interpretive genius from Ang Lee and Heath Ledger's acting instincts to take that tiny motif from Annie Proulx's story of Ennis being aware of Jack thorough the sense of smell and set up that pay-off image in Jack's closet by having Ennis sniff other items througout the film and follow through with the sniffing of Alma, Jr's sweater.
There's no doubt at all in my mind that he is swearing love to Jack in that final line, as much as he ever will be able to verbalize it. It's a wonderful redemptive moment in the film. I'm not sure that Annie Proulx's story is as hopeful as it opens with Ennis much older and still 'trapped' in the taciturn, emotionally stunted, even more stubbornly repressed state. Although Ennis in both the story and film will continue to honor the memory of Jack, I don't know if he will ever allow himself to open up to another man in the same way again.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - Ellemeno (Mon Jan 16 2006 02:35:16 )
CaseyCornelius, it's flashframe777, the phrase in quotes is from "Suzanne" by Leonard Cohen
--- Quote ---
by - flashframe777 1 day ago (Sat Jan 14 2006 10:12:33 )
UPDATED Mon Jan 16 2006 01:31:18
The one and only shot of their willful, consensual, intentional, physical intimacy in the bright light of day is the the one where we observe their bare-chested 'horseplay' through Joe Aguirre's binoculars. I find it ironic and telling that the audience always laughs at their discovery by Aguirre, at the point in their lives where Jack and Ennis felt the most free and demonstrative in their love .
___________________________________________________________________________________
Compare this to the one shot which distills Jack & Ennis' relationship to incorruptable beauty - the flashback of Ennis hugging Jack in the morning before he rides off. It is so private, so meaningful, so pure, that it was hidden from the audience until it has been transmuted by Jack from something ordinary and 3rd dimensional to something spiritually divine and mentally solid. When that moment is revealed it is so profound and so understated that the audience might miss it, or get confused or think it's a mistake. It "sinks beneath your wisdom like a stone."
"You bet." --Ennis del Mar
The moment after "Yes, Daddy, he loves me."
--- End quote ---
TOoP/Bruce:
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - austendw (Mon Jan 16 2006 08:53:31 )
It's a touch of interpretive genius from Ang Lee and Heath Ledger's acting instincts to take that tiny motif from Annie Proulx's story of Ennis being aware of Jack thorough the sense of smell and set up that pay-off image in Jack's closet by having Ennis sniff other items througout the film and follow through with the sniffing of Alma, Jr's sweater.
Yes indeed. When Ennis smells Alma's sweater it obviously recalls the earlier moment. Here, and with real affection, he is smelling the clothing of a living daughter. And note the careful, caring way he folds it up before he puts it away into the closet - the closet which, although it has become the shrine to Jack, does also have room this precious living thing, not just relics of a dead man. That's clearly the redemptive quality that the film-makers brought to these closing scenes. Of course, this doesn't diminish the sense of deep sadness, and it seems to me that it's the very smell of that living daughter (not just the previous announcement of her marriage) that poignantly and viscerally reminds Ennis of his lost love. "Jack, I swear...."
I'm not sure that Annie Proulx's story is as hopeful as it opens with Ennis much older and still 'trapped' in the taciturn, emotionally stunted, even more stubbornly repressed state. Although Ennis in both the story and film will continue to honor the memory of Jack, I don't know if he will ever allow himself to open up to another man in the same way again.
I'm sure you're right here, Casey. The story is bleaker in that Ennis is still utterly alone. He can get consolation and joy from his memories and dreams of Jack ("he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream.") but that consolation is still entirely subjective and interior. He remains an "island, entire of itself." In the film, Ennis's relationship with Alma Jr, gives a glimmer of hope that in a very small way, he is, perhaps for the very first time, "involved in mankind."
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - CaseyCornelius (Wed Jan 18 2006 22:55:58 )
austendw:
Perhaps a parallel with the only other time that Jack is speechless in the film, following the obvious proposition of a 'fishing trip' [the same euphemism which Ennis and Jack use] from Randall, in front of the Childress dance hall, after which the two 'couples' head into a similar surrounding 'blackness'.
Another instance of Jack embarking on what will turn out to be a clandestine sexual relationship reflected in the visual filmic choices.
Amazing the psychological touches and tension which Ang Lee suggests [along with Osanna and McMurtry] yet again more with what is left unsaid than spoken.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - no_no178 (Wed Jan 18 2006 23:03:20 )
ok,,about the camera shots,,,there are only a few "long shots"? right? is there a lot of correlation between them,,,like going right the first,left the second,,,or more on one then the other,,,,then one of,if not the last,,,where ennis finds out jacks dead,,,theres another one that goes part way around him,,is it just shots,,,or is there more to it,,,, ALSO,,in posts longgg ago,,,ppl had posted that there was "flowing" and i saw one of those examples...when alma puts the paper down,,,and theres "honey" on it...and the next scene jacks asks lureen,"honey,u seen my blue parka?"...that was someones elses exp.. but i finally saw it,lol........ but what about those long shots?
I THINK I THINK TOO MUCH
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - CaseyCornelius (Wed Jan 18 2006 23:21:41 )
no no178:
Your bringing up the arresting camera movement which tracks around Ennis as he reads the DECEASED-stamped postcard he had sent to Jack is striking as it expresses his shock. He halts in his tracks and the world seeming to stop around him is suggested by this camera move.
I keep forgetting to bring up that I'd noticed that the split second before Ennis reads the postcard, just as he's exiting the Post Office, a brown truck, almost identical to the one we last saw Jack driving [a revealing association with the brown/tan/wheat color always associated with Ennis -see the extensive discussion regarding this in other threads], crosses left to right in the background behind Ennis. In no conceivable way can this be a coincidence or a lack of thought on Ang Lee's part. He'd never allow a random moment such as that, especially when he's gone to such lengths throughout the film to associate certain colors with each of Jack and Ennis.
It's as if Jack as a physical presence in a symbolic-filmic way is shown to be exiting the story.
HAS TO BE !!
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - rayanne007 (Thu Jan 19 2006 00:08:25 )
One of my favorite sequences takes place in Jack's room toward the end of the film. Ennis is sitting at the window. Suddenly the camera cuts to a view from inside the closet, looking across the room toward Ennis. It's Jack looking at Ennis. Then Ennis looks directly at the camera. Wow.
Wow, I never picked up on that possibility until you mentioned it. I love that, it made tears come to my eyes. It's a beautiful idea :)
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - flashframe777 (Thu Jan 19 2006 00:34:03 )
Great...something to look for at the next viewing when Ennis comes out of the post office. This time I will focus on the camera moves throughout. Naturally, I will report back here with my thoughts. Thanks Casey.
"You bet." --Ennis del Mar
'Cabin'
by - 3of19 (Thu Jan 19 2006 04:30:56 )
I didn't notice it before my 6th viewing two days ago, but did you notice what Ennis is saying in the exact moment the camera shift occurs?
He mentions the cabin they spent some time on one year.
And what was it Randall proposed Jack and he should do sometime? Go and get aways sometime to his boss' cabin.
Re: 'Cabin'
by - flashframe777 (Thu Jan 19 2006 07:47:06 )
He mentions the cabin they spent some time on one year.
And what was it Randall proposed Jack and he should do sometime? Go and get aways sometime to his boss' cabin.
___________________________________
And what phenomenon do we see between twins, but an uncanny connection that tells them what's happening with the other without verbal communication. This is an example.
"You bet." --Ennis del Mar
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - CaseyCornelius (Thu Jan 19 2006 15:58:24 )
flashframe:
I've picked up the January copy of American Cinematographer recommended by yourself, spottedreptile, and others.
I am completely floored by Prieto's admission that most of the time in the film only one camera was used, often operated by a single person, frequently himself.
The whole film is so delicately and beautifully photographed, but I had never imagined that it had been done so simply. It makes the few shots where a relatively complicated camera movement is used stand out, their effect on the audience so visceral. It's akin to a few brush strokes on a white paper sheet, with a sudden explosion of red.
Yet another instance of Ang Lee's appealing to 'stillness', silence, and leaving more unsaid than said throughout the film. How refreshing in this period of kinetic, hyperactive films to see Ang Lee daring the audience's involvement. What a chance he took, but how magnificently this filmic miracle is affecting the world. I'll look forward to seeing how well its received in Europe - initial reports show as much excitement as on this side of the pond.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - enzino-1 (Thu Jan 19 2006 16:05:15 )
Yes, it's a miracle film.
Thanks for your analysis…
Re: 'Cabin'
by - 3of19 (Thu Jan 19 2006 16:16:36 )
Well, what I meant was that Jack was reminded of the option of Randall while trying to figure out where to go from there. And as we see, Ennis is pushed out of focus, i.e. Jack is seriously considering to go and try to build a life with Randall, rather than Ennis.
Maybe I'm interpreting your answer wrong, it sounded kinda condecending to me. But then again, I'm not a native English speaker.
Re: 'Cabin'
by - flashframe777 (Thu Jan 19 2006 16:51:35 )
30f19, I enjoyed your input, and was adding to it. I was not at all being condescending. And your English is perfect!
"You bet." --Ennis del Mar
Re: 'Cabin'
by - 3of19 (Thu Jan 19 2006 17:06:42 )
UPDATED Thu Jan 19 2006 17:07:13
Ah ok. I thought it would be weird if you were being condecending, cuz it doesn't seem like you from what I've learned about you from my time here. Just thought the comment was a bit strange.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - spottedreptile (Sun Jan 22 2006 01:03:38 )
FINALLY got to see the film a second time today, and I paid very close attention to this shot, amazing what you notice the second time around. Actually the camera is very slightly off-focus in the foreground when Ennis is left side of Jack, so Jack is very slightly out of focus. When Ennis appears on Jack's right side, Jack goes into sharp focus as Ennis blurs.
So it's not quite as technically difficult as I first thought, but still just as clever in the choice and how the subtext is used.
I noticed something else as well - when Jack and Ennis are walking to the bar after they have just been hired, Jack is leading and Ennis a few steps behind going Indian file, but even though they haven't really talked to each other yet, THEIR STEPS ARE EXACTLY SYNCHRONISED.
This happens when people are en rapport - when they walk together they are often in step with each other.
Nice little touch. One of the many hundreds of little touches that make this film so great.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - flashframe777 (Sun Jan 22 2006 02:55:00 )
Spotted,
They could have easily done that shot without losing focus on the foreground or the background as the camera dollys from left to right. It would simply be keeping the depth of field at a higher number. So the choice was intentional to blur the subject that was not making a comment.
"You bet." --Ennis del Mar
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - henrypie (Sun Jan 22 2006 18:26:05 )
Thanks for the original post on this thread. Brilliant observation that I know I would have missed or at best never articulated so well.
on last post -- on the pope/virgin Mary... Mary's iconographic color is indeed blue but I wouldn't tie that to the pope. Pope wears red...
I love this film.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - flashframe777 (Sun Jan 22 2006 18:50:53 )
Hey Non99, Jack says "you used to come away so easy. Now, it's like seeing the pope."
"You bet." --Ennis del Mar
TOoP/Bruce:
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - nonon99_99 (Tue Jan 24 2006 18:38:25 )
UPDATED Thu Jan 26 2006 16:22:22
During the scene in which Jack drives fourteen hours to the house of Ennis, after receiving the message of his divorce, we can see when Ennis says his reasons to reject Jack, facing Ennis, Jack's tongue is licking his lips, from right to left then back to right, showing his anxiety. This detail reflects the shifting of camera at the final Lake scene, which is from left to right then to left behind Jack.
This is just a one instance of the numerous reflections on which Brokeback Mountain constructs. Here is one more:
In the final Lake scene, when Jack opens the door of his car, readies to depart, Ennis leans on Jack's car talking to him. Ennis' body language tells us his reluctance to let Jack go. We may recall the first departing scene after their first Brokeback encounter. In there Ennis fixs Jack's car, then leans on the body of the car, searching the lost shirt, the one with blood stolen by Jack. Ennis says 'can't believe lost the shirt', that means he knows the shirt is lost. Ennis pretends searching it for one more time to keep for a moment. ( I think in real life, once you have fixed someone's car, usually you will let the car go instead leaning on it.)
The lake itself is also a metaphor.
We recall the first river dialogue scene, the water flows from the direction of Jack towards the direction of Ennis. In the second river dialogue, the flowing direction of the water remains the same. It changes in the third river dialogue, in which the a blue bucket flows from the direction of Ennis to that of Jack, almost gets lost, thought Jack isn't at the side of river this moment.
Now in the final dialouge which happens again beside the water. We see a large and still lake, no more flow.
CaseyCornelius:
You have mentioned after Ennis receives a return post card from the post office, he stands still on the street, a brown car leaves from him. Do you notice there is a woman in white goes to the opposite direction of the car?
Certainly it reflects in the Jack's parent scene Jack's mother's console to Ennis.
We can also find the profound significance of Numbers. The differences between odd and even of the people, chairs, lights etc in the background reflects the character's situation and mind. Even always associates with happiness, odd the loneliness. These are many such examples in pub and bar scenes. What surprising is, the lights and people in the background often moves, yet the number of the figures inside the picture will remind the same.
In the ball scene, we see people always dance and sit in couples, even on the stage there are two musicans, only Jack is the single. He finally joins the man on the white bench and they become an even number, a couple. Three cars are facing them. In the scene jack gets beaten, there are three men beating him. Hence the number of three of the cars isn't without meaning as well. In the last scene, inside Enni's trailer, there are only odd numbers of chair and light.
This metaphorical use of water, number, direction as well as colour which many people have analysed, reminds me the art of traditional Chinese painting. I believe it is the use of such abundant visual metaphors, symbols, Brokeback Mountain digs into a large area of viewer's subconscious, affects people deeply.
I sense in Brokeback Mountain many other techniques similar to those used in traditional Chinese arts. They happens on every aspects, visual, aural, lingual, as well as tempo. Will say something of them later.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - sisterbenin (Thu Jan 26 2006 09:12:32 )
Absolutely superb, astonishing thread!
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - Flickfan-3 (Thu Jan 26 2006 09:39:33 )
UPDATED Thu Jan 26 2006 09:54:11
so glad that you caught that other scene--I too was struck by it's calm, almost wistful atmosphere--Jack savors that moment--he appears to be dreaming as we hear Ennis's voice but the camera gives them the privacy intimacy should compell--this scene receives complete reversal in audience response from the scene where Aguirre sees them in horseplay (and I have only heard an audience laugh once at this--a couple of times people have sucked in their breath, anticipating disaster.
On another board, I read a comment about the later scene when Ennis is holding the shirts in Jack's closet which to me echos this flashback so I am going to copy that interp into this post. Appreciate any feedback from people whose posts are always eye opening....
Posts on "Jack's two natures" are very thought provoking and I saw right away that you had captured that nurturing theme that flows in the movie. Maybe this next interpretation has been mentioned previously on other threads--if so, I am not meaning to steal anyone else's idea but Monimm's comments caught my imagination.
It took me back to Jack's flashback at their last reunion, when Ennis gives his only overtly loving gesture on the mountain that summer--if we discount the tent scenes for the moment. When Ennis comes up behind Jack while he is sleeping, embraces him, whispers in his ear, and then goes away--we see that Jack is still dreamy but aware and focused on Ennis's gift of love, because it is as strong or stronger a display of love to me than most of what happens in the tents since it is not connected to the passion of the body but of the spirit and/or soul.
Ennis's embrace of the shirts--holding them from behind like he held Jack, whispering just a little to them, replacated that flashback scene in my mind--and increased my sense of his loss--that moment is gone and can never be regained--Ennis rode off in that scene secure in their relationship, just as he drove off at the last reunion healed by Jack's love, and not realizing it was the last time. Perhaps he, too, was remembering how he embraced Jack on Brokeback at that moment.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - CaseyCornelius (Thu Jan 26 2006 14:00:28 )
UPDATED Thu Jan 26 2006 14:30:06
nonon99 99:
Thank you for your observations regarding the running versus the still water and its use throughout the film. I've thought about it a lot over the last few days and find your seeing it so compelling and and an obviously intentional detail on Ang Lee's part.
There is not a visual detail in this film - the colors, the camera angles, the choices of location, the framing, and blocking of actors - which has not been thought out to the Nth degree by Ang Lee, Cinematographer Rodrigo Prieto and Production Designer Judy Becker among others.
I'm also interested in your references to Chinese numerology and cultural symbols. A poster on another topic I initiated - the Deliberate Classical References thread - wrote about Chinese poetry, since the moonlit scenes on Brokeback reminded her of the use of the moon in Chinese literature as a symbol of friends being joined together.
And a poster in the Brokeback forum on Dave Cullen's blog brought up the number 8 as significant in Chinese cultural as a number suggestive of repose - intriguing in that Ennis is affixing the numbers 1 and 7 to his mailbox in the final epilogue to the film - their individual numbers important in Chinese numerology [can't remember the exact details], but also the fact that their sum is the more significant Chinese numerological 8 .
Would be interested in any other thought you have from a Chinese cultural perspective, as it's obviously a factor in Ang Lee's interpretation and visualization of Proulx's and Ossana/McMurtry's words.
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - starboardlight (Thu Jan 26 2006 14:21:58 )
the use of the full moon isn't coincidental. Through the film, we see the full moon only 3 times. As has been pointed out, in Classical Chinese literature and poetry, the full moon signifies lovers' reunion. Even if they are parted by distance, looking at the same moon, they find unity. In BBM, the idea of the lovers' union/reunion is accompanied by the image of the moon. First time we see the moon, it is obscured by clouds. It sit in the sky behind Jack, lonely up in the mountain with the sheep, looking down to see the dot of fire that is Ennis's camp. The love has developed but yet to be revealed. The Second full moon happens during the first tent scene. Jack calls Ennis into the tent. Cut to the moon to show time passing. The full moon emerges out of the cloud, full, bright and harsh. Back to Jack and Ennis and their attraction is finally revealed in a rough and harsh sexual encounter. The third time the full moon is used just after the reunion kiss. The two boys run off for a "fishing trip". Ennis lies on his back looking up at the moon. "I'm sending up a prayer of thanx".
Re: Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and a Unique Camera Move
by - nonon99_99 (Thu Jan 26 2006 17:28:53 )
UPDATED Thu Jan 26 2006 17:40:36
Yes! In Chinese culture, the number 8 is a symbol of developing, flourishing, etc.. I am so glad to find a way to understand the meaning of the numbers on the mailbox outside Ennis' trailer. At first there is a 1, it should be a metaphor of Ennis's loneliness, then there is a 7, represents the larger world outside Ennis' life. The joining together of these two numbers, has such significance.
And the open door, the daughter, the coming wedding, Ennis' first enunciation of the word 'love', the two shirts, the landscape outside the window...
I really feel the last scene in the trailer is sending a strong message of blessing to people. No matter what tragedy happens, the first and purest love, occupying forever in our minds, will refresh everything and give us the strength and belief towards life. This mysterious gift of nature right locates inside our hearts, inside everyone's own Brokeback Mountain.
Chinese numerology and a final blessing in the Epilogue
by - CaseyCornelius (Thu Jan 26 2006 17:41:03 )
UPDATED Fri Jan 27 2006 21:59:56
nonon99 99:
Thank you, thank you for your insights into the numbers. It's completely in line with the statement which Ang Lee has made on numerous occasions -- that he wanted to end the film on a note of redemption [quoting Lurcher-2 from their post above]. Your suggesting that the numbers 1 [lonliness] + 7 [society] equalling 8 [developing, flourishing] is an exact expression of that intention. So beautiful !!
Annie Proulx's story - especially with the preface showing a much older, grey-haired Ennis still reminiscing the story and his relationship with Jack, but no further along in developing a relationship outside of his obeisance to Jack's memory - is much more resigned at the end.
The end of the film does suggest a blessing juxtaposing what Ennis knew [the closed closet door with the 'cult objects' of his love for Jack] with what he "tried to believe" [the open field with the blue sky (Jack's symbolic color), the golden color of the wheat (Ennis's color) and the verdant green of the corn stalks (the re-generational hope of Alma, Jr's love for another man).
A miracle of a film with obvious symbolic and thematic content from both Western and Chinese cultures which gives the lie to those who think the film-makers intended it to be solely a realistic story.
Re: Chinese numerology and a final blessing in the Epilogue
by - Ellemeno (Fri Jan 27 2006 03:20:21 )
I hope someone is archiving this thread. The hilarious Geisha thread is GONE. I would hate for this one to disappear.
"You got a better idea.......hm?"
Re: Chinese numerology and a final blessing in the Epilogue
by - headrosie (Fri Jan 27 2006 05:09:54 )
This thread is fantastic, thank you all so much.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version