Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > IMDb Remarkable Writings Rewound
Report of Brokeback Mountain Symbols (Spoilers) -- by flashframe777
TOoP/Bruce:
by - Ellemeno (Sat Jan 21 2006 15:58:19 )
Another thing is whenever you have the scenes where the wind is blowing like Alma hanging clothes, or the wind kicking up dust, or the wind blows through the grass as the train passes -- it is a prelude to communication between Jack and Ennis. It's as if the wind is carrying the message in the air.
As Aguirre says, "Look what the wind blew in."
Thanks for bringing this thread back.
not so lonely now, is it? hm
by - naun (Sun Dec 25 2005 01:43:11 )
A friend of mine pointed out (and this is so obvious I know, but I just love the way it comes out visually, in the film, when you think back on it) that whenever they are together (except obvious places like Ennis' apt, the hotel etc.) the surroundings are absolutely idyllic, the scenery lush, so much to look at, the air just LOOKS clearer, and fresher.
Very often they're near a body of water, which suggests perhaps a state of purity or guiltlessness.
Somebody mentioned the snow and the cold. I've often thought, watching Lee's earlier film The Ice Storm, that the images of ice and cold sharpened the sense of isolation you feel about the characters and made you more aware of their need for emotional warmth. Something similar is going on here, I think. The scenes in Brokeback of cars or trucks arriving or departing in a cloud of dust serve a similar purpose, I suspect, emphasizing the distance between people.
by - naun (Tue Dec 27 2005 05:28:34 )
The last that Jack sees of Ennis is of him driving away with a horse (or was it two horses?) in a trailer that has a kind of cage over the top. It's not hard to see the caged horse as a symbol of the freedom they have lost.
Speaking of horses, the scene of Jack selling the tractor (the "Versatile"(!) tractor, as a sharp-eyed viewer here noticed) while Lureen does the accounting in the office, years after their rodeo days are over, reminded me of some lines from Yeats' poem "At Galway Races":
We, too, had good attendance once,
Hearers and hearteners of the work;
Aye, horsemen for companions,
Before the merchant and the clerk
Breathed on the world with timid breath.
I wonder if Proulx or the screenwriters were thinking of the same poem? Here's a link to the entire poem:
http://www.poetry-archive.com/y/at_galway_races.html
The sheep
by - 3of19 (Tue Dec 27 2005 05:42:26 )
I got an idea today regarding the eviscerated sheep Ennis finds after the first night in the tent with Jack.
The audience doesn't know it yet, but I guess the sheep could remind Ennis of the murdered farmer his father shows to him.
From the PoV of the audience, it looks merely like a reminder of what happens if they skip out on their sheep-herding duties, but for Ennis it means more.
Re: The sheep
by - nictwister (Tue Dec 27 2005 09:38:07 )
When Jack comes to Ennis after learning the divorce is final and Ennis' daughters are in the car. The coversation is obvious very awkward for Ennis but I noticed he look off a truck in the distance and then they showed us the viewer that truck driving by...what was that meant to be?
The general public? Acceptance? Was that society driving by and reminding Ennis that someone would always be watching hence they could never be together despite the divorce?
That whole conversation was weird - why did Ennis take the time to send a card to Jack about the divorce if he didn't even want to entertain the idea of them being together.
Also, what did having the girls for one weekend have to do with them not being together? It just seem like some dialog that didn't communicate much - yet you knew exactly what it meant?
Re: The sheep
by - jyanks (Tue Dec 27 2005 09:49:38 )
I saw symbolism when Anne Hathaway is on the phone with Ennis. If you notice, her Lee Press-on nails are starting to come off....I thought that this was an important, yet minor detail that Ang Lee wanted us to notice.
Fake nails/Fake person = Fake story
Re: Fake nails
by - nictwister (Tue Dec 27 2005 09:53:47 )
I DID NOTICE THAT - and I thought the same exact thing.
Nail polish
by - delalluvia (Tue Dec 27 2005 11:29:10 )
UPDATED Tue Dec 27 2005 11:40:39
I saw symbolism when Anne Hathaway is on the phone with Ennis. If you notice, her Lee Press-on nails are starting to come off....I thought that this was an important, yet minor detail that Ang Lee wanted us to notice.
Fake nails/Fake person = Fake story
You know, I thought the same thing until I read a reviewer who talked about the nail polish stain on Lureen's finger.
So I took a closer look the next time and thought instead of press-on nails, what they look like is just Lureen doing a poor job of polishing her nails.
Those in the know understand what I mean when you go the manicurist and get a bad polish job. It's like they paint a swathe of color down the middle of your nail but don't get the sides covered.
In the end, that's what I decided it looked like to me.
TOoP/Bruce:
Re: The sheep
by - nalgene (Tue Dec 27 2005 11:37:24 )
NAUN - love the lines from Yeats! He's my favorite poet.
DELALLUVIA - I noticed that nailpolish on her finger too! Such detail. Also noticed the tobacco stains on her teeth.
Re: Nail polish
by - jyanks (Tue Dec 27 2005 12:24:11 )
Interesting about the bad polish job. I'll have to wait to video to watch again.
The "fake" element is still there. Her hair gets blonder & blonder throughout the movie. That's another piece of symbolism that shows how fake she is.
Re: Carving of Turkey
by - nictwister (Tue Dec 27 2005 17:38:03 )
So for all you really smart people who can spot the points of symbolism....What was meant by the two Thanksgiving scenes. One at Jack's house where the Father-in-Law is carving the Turkey with a regular knife and the one with Ennis where the Step Dad is using an electric carver.
The director meant something here because they did close-ups on both carving techniques. Did it represent the routine of life?
Re: Carving of Turkey
by - delalluvia (Tue Dec 27 2005 17:44:35 )
Hi nic,
One at Jack's house where the Father-in-Law is carving the Turkey with a regular knife and the one with Ennis where the Step Dad is using an electric carver.
The director meant something here because they did close-ups on both carving techniques. Did it represent the routine of life?
I think it was just to contrast the two family gatherings, to show how isolated both men are no matter their suroundings. One man needed to have someone else invite him to a meal, the other much better off, but still extraneous at the meal.
The electric knife was just a real touch of 70's cheesiness and how it appears at the Monroe's with their wanna-be class aspirations.
Re: Carving of Turkey
by - nictwister (Tue Dec 27 2005 18:11:58 )
You are so damned introspective. I think you pegged it.
What other symbolism did you see that you can share? I have read your postings and you are right on every time.
Re: Carving of Turkey
by - delalluvia (Tue Dec 27 2005 18:25:45 )
UPDATED Tue Dec 27 2005 18:30:28
jyanks
That's another piece of symbolism that shows how fake she is.
I don't think it's meant to symbolize how fake Lureen is, but how fake their life together became. It's all for show, flash and glitz, all surface, reality not what it seems.
What other symbolism did you see that you can share?
Thanks nic. Those are pretty much all I've come up with so far and I mention others from time to time when someone says something that makes me go 'Aha!' But as lurch pointed out, there is a danger of reading too much into things.
For example, the sheep thing.
Sheep are EXTREMELY symbolic, but then again, how many other herding animals could Proulx have used that are common in Wyoming? Sheep and cattle are pretty much it so far as I know and she wanted to use sheep to symbolize Jack and Ennis' failure to be real 'cow' boys because the sheep is despised by most cattlemen.
Re: Carving of Turkey
by - nictwister (Tue Dec 27 2005 18:44:14 )
Delalluvia,
What about the way Ennis's parents died? It sounded as if the drove off a cliff. Was that supposed to mean anything?
What about Jack checking on his son's tutor on his way out the door to meet Ennis? What did that symbolize?
You say you have seen it 6 times? When are our lives going to get back to normal? It took Ennis a YEAR to figure out that what made him sick was taking his eyes off of Jack. How long is it going to take us to recover. :)
TOoP/Bruce:
Other sights and suppositions
by - delalluvia (Tue Dec 27 2005 18:51:41 )
nic
Delalluvia,
What about the way Ennis's parents died? It sounded as if the drove off a cliff. Was that supposed to mean anything?
I didn't think it meant anything other than what it was, how they died. I never imagined they ran off a cliff - roads through mountainous areas are rarely a straight line ("one curve in 43 miles..."). You could easily kill yourself just running off the road in the days before seatbelts were required. Just run off a country road, lose control on the gravel, hit a ditch, flip over and that's all she wrote.
What about Jack checking on his son's tutor on his way out the door to meet Ennis? What did that symbolize?
Not so much as symbol but an example that 1) Jack is a caring parent and 2) that very few people actually like Jack.
You say you have seen it 6 times? When are our lives going to get back to normal? It took Ennis a YEAR to figure out that what made him sick was taking his eyes off of Jack. How long is it going to take us to recover. :)
LOL! Dunno. I'm a Star Wars veteran, so seeing the same movie once or twice a week for an entire summer is nothing unusual for me.
Matter of fact, for the upcoming New Years 3 day weekend, I am already planning what days I'm going to catch BBM again.
Re: Other sights and suppositions
by - nictwister (Tue Dec 27 2005 20:25:03 )
Delalluvia,
Well for me this is a first. I am sad to say I have had deaths in my family that haven't affected me this deeply. I am wanting to move on to anger and acceptance.
Last night I tried to shift my brain by watching Purple Rain (my all time favorite - for the music of course) and 2 minutes into the movie I was sitting back at the PC reading about BBM again.
What part of the country are you from?
Re: Other sights and suppositions
by - nalgene (Tue Dec 27 2005 20:29:31 )
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...Purple Rain (my all time favorite - for the music of course)
_____________________________________________________________________
Me too! Purple Rain is going to be my wedding song.
Re: Other sights and suppositions
by - delalluvia (Tue Dec 27 2005 20:48:51 )
UPDATED Tue Dec 27 2005 20:49:55
Hiya nic,
Well for me this is a first. I am sad to say I have had deaths in my family that haven't affected me this deeply. I am wanting to move on to anger and acceptance.
Brokeback got you good.
Last night I tried to shift my brain by watching Purple Rain (my all time favorite - for the music of course) and 2 minutes into the movie I was sitting back at the PC reading about BBM again.
Don't feel embarrassed. I'm a grown up and if I want to spend my spare time yakking online about cowboys in love, the meaning of herding sheep, whether an ancient Roman matron who murders her daughter's ex-husband and wants her young son to have an affair with Caesar is a good mother or not (HBO's 'Rome' is another obsession) and muse over with my fellow fans whether a Wookiee can actually swim with all that hair, then I will.
Some people bowl or play pickup games or watch sports or do needlepoint. I yak online on fanboards. So sue me.
What part of the country are you from?
Texas.
Re: Other sights and suppositions
by - gpeddino (Tue Dec 27 2005 20:56:16 )
Alma = means 'soul' in Spanish or Portuguese
Lureen = maybe a reference to 'lure'?
Re: Other sights and suppositions
by - anml-lvr (Sun Jan 1 2006 22:30:58 )
delalluvia,
You are a crack-up...thanks
Re: Carving of Turkey
by - NewHorizons37 (Sat Dec 31 2005 06:37:32 )
What about Jack checking on his son's tutor on his way out the door to meet Ennis? What did that symbolize?
The things delalluvia said; also it showed the nature of the relationship between Jack and Lureen. He asks her to call the teacher, she said she thought he was going to, and he said the teacher doesn't like him, you do it, and she agrees. They have a give-and-take partnership, pleasant enough and effective as far as getting things done, but it's cold, all business. As Jack says later in the movie, they could do it all over the phone. Then the scene ends with a perfunctory kiss, no real warmth.
TOoP/Bruce:
Re: Carving of Turkey
by - deliane (Wed Dec 28 2005 05:53:49 )
UPDATED Wed Dec 28 2005 09:53:08
hi turkey slicin' appreciators : )
this is one of my favorite 'threads'.. so I hope you'll excuse me for stretching the topic to include just imagery- because I don't have any subtle symbolism to offer here with turkey observations-
but the 2 turkey dinner slicing scenes sure stay, uh, seared in the memory! Ang Lee must be having fun here.
both turkeys are hugely contrasted with those red elk-meat strips, eh? (after the first sortof shocked gasp..) now that was a real rib-sticking feast, the one on Brokeback... no fancy silver or electric knives at that dinner.. no need for 'em--
(the electric knife almost made ME snicker.. poor guy. Alma does not look happy and can't be a fun ride this time around as Mrs Electric Knife.. sigh.) (speaking of the silver knife household, I couldn't STAND Mr Father in law for one dinner, much less take him skulking around, daily- YUK)
Re: Carving of Turkey
by - pkdetroit (Wed Dec 28 2005 06:47:09 )
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All these tiny details are what makes a movie great. And Ang Lee is oh so subtle too, not hitting you over the head like Spielberg and others tend to do. So many movies seem to be made with only "that will look really cool" in mind with no consideration of how greatly a story can be moved forward by the important little details of which many moviegoers will be blissfully unaware.
Like the dead sheep for example, on the surface it is a reminder of what can happen if the boys are derelict in their duties, but a lot can be read into that dead animal that can inhance a moviegoer's experience of the story.
Unsurprisingly, Lee is very Chinese in the way he presents his stories. Other fans of Chinese cinema will agree that even if you are unable to follow the stories, many Chinese movies are visually breathtaking. Each scene is like a painting, details have the same importance on a big screen as on a small canvas. And not just details ,like carving knives, but perspective and scale and how objects relate to each other in the space, color, sound and of course music are not just add-ons but integral parts of the whole.
I look forward to seeing BBM again...and again.
Re: Carving of Turkey
by - flashframe777 (Wed Dec 28 2005 09:44:54 )
There's something about the last shot, the picture window that haunts me. With the yellow and green in the background it makes me think of "America The Beautiful" (that's God Save The Queen to you Brits), and amber waves of grain. It's serves as a picture window to what life could be, and a reminder not to let it pass you by.
"You bet." --Ennis del Mar
Re: Carving of Turkey
by - flashframe777 (Thu Dec 29 2005 22:27:51 )
bump for movie engineer.
"You bet." --Ennis del Mar
Re: Carving of Turkey
by - Ellemeno (Sat Jan 21 2006 16:08:09 )
Re turkeys, I keep thinking this in the theater, and then forgetting to mention it here - Isn't there a saying about "getting one's turkey basted?" I've had the sense it means to have one's sexual needs met.
Well, Jack goes to Mexico and walks down that alley with the lovely and talented Rodrigo. Fade to black. The very next shot is an extreme close up of this big old turkey having goo poured over it, and Jack's belt buckle.
not so lonely now, is it? hm
TOoP/Bruce:
by - deliane (Tue Dec 27 2005 19:13:06 )
not exactly a symbol- more of a simile-
Jake and Ennis' relationship- especially the lovemaking scenes- reminds me of a kind of rough dance between horse-tamer and wild horse.. but backwards: Jake is the would-be rodeo rider of bucking broncos who says he can't be thrown yet is thrown, over and over. but with Ennis- he is masterful. gentle, coaxing, can't be thrown no matter how rough Ennis' ride. and Ennis, the stoic, the sharp shooter, is the wild one, the untamed force-
beautiful and moving. hard for me to put into words. but it makes what they are, ranch hands, seem a metaphor for how their love plays out- and how they read eachother.
Re: Brokeback Mountain Symbols Thread (spoilers)
by - ddmaul (Tue Dec 27 2005 20:36:33 )
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Yes. There's another thread on here somewhere that talks about the meaning of the characters' names. Ennis is Gaelic for island, and Twist refers (in rodeo jargon) to the bundle of muscles in the thighs and butt that are used in staying on a bull. So, you hit it right on the head: Jack Twist is trying like hell to stay on the bullride that is his relationship with Ennis. In another scene Ennis says "I never rodeoed much myself. Don't see the point in riding for just a few seconds" (that's paraphrased, I know). Jack says "Money's a good point", to which Ennis replies "not if you get stopmed winning it". And there's their relationship: a few moments at a time, with the potential to be richly rewarding if only Ennis could get over the fear of "getting stomped". Great, now I'm crying again....
by - dane-oliver (Sat Dec 31 2005 09:56:34 )
I also saw a lot of imagery relating to the poverty of the regions that both Jack and Ennis live in and how the divide between urban and rural effected them. For example, the scene in the honky tonk bar with Ennis, his girlfriend and his daughter shows a women with a tatoo on her entire back. To me this symbolized Ang's intention to show the Western lifestyle as it really was in the 1980s and how much it contrasted to a very different urban lifestyle for homosexuals that was happening in larger urban centres at the same time.
by - diemxperdidi (Sun Jan 1 2006 21:20:04 )
UPDATED Sun Jan 1 2006 21:21:00
i don't know if someone else has said this, but what about Jack's rodeo-ing?
Rodeo is dangerous, with the potential to get hurt (...or killed). And it's very shifting, as well. The bulls change, the places change. When someone asks Jack about doing the calf-lassoe thing (not up on cowboy lingo, sorry), he says he hasn't the money to buy a horse. If he bought a horse, he would have to stay with that horse...no more changing for each show. Does this not reflect his character? He is willing to risk anything for his love, he is always moving, he seems to CRAVE change.
On the other hand, Ennis expresses some amount of distain for rodeo cowboys...he likes the stability of stationary lifestyles.
However, in the first sex scene, Ennis takes the more masculine role, "riding" Jack. Perhaps Jack forces Ennis to embrace change and risks, and on the flip side, Ennis forces Jack to pull back at times.
I might be way off base here, though. You've probably talked about this before, too, so whatever. Carry on ^.^
we can all just kiss off into the air
by - mlewisusc (Sun Jan 1 2006 22:24:01 )
On a long-ago (3 days?) thread, someone who knew about rodeo and other things pointed out that the bartender knew Jack was hitting on the rodeo clown, and suggested calf-roping to him, basically meaning if he wanted to hook up with a guy, he'd need to go after someone younger and less experienced than the rodeo clown. Basically a derisive aimed at Jack because he just got shot down.
Not my knowledge, I'm just passing it on.
But I might agree about the riskiness of bull riding showing Jack's more "outgoing" or "risk-taking" outlook (e.g., made the first move, wants to try living together).
by - mlewisusc (Mon Jan 2 2006 18:31:57 )
Another item I noticed on my last viewing of the film -
Jack's character actually holds the sheep - the lamb on the way up, a sheep slung across his back crossing a stream, picking something out of the lamb when they are sitting up on the pasture.
Ennis, by contrast, has a lamb in a sack attached to his saddle, but no other contact seen (including during the separation scene - Jack dragging a sheep over to their herd, Ennis on his horse).
Could this merely be because Jack was originally the herder?
As others at other threads have said, Lee does NOTHING without a reason.
So is there more to this?
What are your thoughts?
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