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delalluvia:
it just kills me that bush can let the UAE control our ports, but the real problem is people coming over here from mexico who want a better life for their families?

The problem I have with this argument is yet another one of economics.  I understand refugees and political asylum and people crossing borders to escape persecution.

To cross a border illegally to better one's life?  Um, if they wanted to better their lives, why don't they come here legally?  To come to a nation to better one's self and start this experience by breaking the laws of said country, not paying taxes and using up social services isn't the way to do it and is a slap in the face to this country.

In the example of Mexico, the government of Mexico is not going to feel the pressure it needs to to change its stance on providing services for its own people or try to improve economic conditions for them if many of their citizens know they can always just leave to go to the U.S. if they wanted to.  The people who stay and fight for better conditions in their own country are what cause changes.

The situation isn't going to change if people just bail.

starboardlight:

--- Quote from: delalluvia on May 02, 2006, 08:43:51 am ---To cross a border illegally to better one's life?  Um, if they wanted to better their lives, why don't they come here legally?  To come to a nation to better one's self and start this experience by breaking the laws of said country, not paying taxes and using up social services isn't the way to do it and is a slap in the face to this country.

--- End quote ---

because it takes money to do it legally, money that they simply don't have. much less the understanding of the US bureaucracy to even comprehend the complex process. Have you looked into what it takes to get a work visa for the US? You have to be sponsored by an employer, in an industry that is high demand for high skill labor. "High skill" reads as jobs requiring college education. Architecture, yes. Janitorial jobs, no, lettuce picking, no. construction, no. The sponsoring employee has to be willing to do the paper, meaning deal with the bureaucracy of the Department of Justice. The employer has to be willing to pay the $2000 application fee, per employee they sponsor. Those two factors alone will deter most employers from hiring non-Americans. In addition to that, the employer has to wait the couple of months for approval. Until then you can't start working. When an employer decided to hire someone, they need someone now, not someone two months from now. And even then, it's not guaranteed, because there is a quota every year for the number of cases the DOJ will approve. So an employer may go through all this, pay $2000 and still not get approval. To get a green card sponsorship is even more frustrating. An employer has to prove that he/she has tried for a year to find qualified workers and failed, so must hire an immigrant. Most do that by placing a want ad in news paper for a certain period of time. The application fee for that is even more prohibitive.

For the low skill workers, there really isn't a viable route for working in the US legally. Let's face it, when you're willing to risk the harsh desert border crossing, you're in an economically desperate situation. I can't fault them for wanting to take that risk. I think I would do the same. The guess worker program will make it easier some workers, but I still don't see it as stemming the tides of illegal immigrants. There will definitely be a quota. In any case the DOJ just can't get to approving all the cases fast enough. They're back logged as it is with legal cases. The usual time for approving green card cases is 5 years. It's stretching out to nearly 10 years now. I have a friend going through this. The DOJ is just approving cases from 1997 right now.

And this is where the resentment from legal immigrants come from. The back log for legal immigration is frustrating enough for those still waiting for their cases to be reviewed, and Congress is putting illegal immigrant issue ahead of theirs. If you've been waiting for nearly 10 years for your green card, and all the sudden illegal immigrants will suddenly get their before yours, you'd be resentful too.

TJ:
Many years ago, a couple who had travelled from a country south of Mexico came into the USA (I forgot which country it was).

Immigration authorities asked the man and his wife separately why they came to the USA.

Both of them answered to get jobs. They were not allowed to stay in the country.

The news report said that the officials themself said in words to this effect, "If they had asked for political asylum instead since they were from a country which had a dictator and claimed that they wanted to be free, they could have legally stayed."

In the early 1990s, I made two round trips by Amtrak between LA and San Diego. On one of the return trips to LA, just north of San Diego at one of the stops, Immigration folks got on the train. One of them spoke in English to a young man who was in the car that I was in. But, the fellow did not understand what he said. Since I used to be a Spanish teacher, I understood all of the rest of the conversation.

They asked the guy where he was born and he said, "Pasadena." (That's where the Rose Parade takes place.)

Then he was told, if you were born in Pasadena, California, you  would have at least know what I was talking about when I spoke to you in English."

The young man was taken off the train.

I look at this immigration from the POV of a card-carrying Native American (I am a member of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma.) The English Speaking Europeans came to this part of the world and demanded the Natives forget their natiive tongues and speak only English. Even into the 1st half of the 20th Century, Native children were taken from their parents and put in church own mission schools by the federal goverment.

If the children were heard to speak even one word of their native tongue, they were severely punished. A friend of mine's mother, who was 1/2 Kiowa and 1/2 European whatever, was sent to one of those schools.

I don't have a problem with those who wish to be legally in the USA and want to become American citizens. But, those who want to claim equal rights as American born and naturalized citizens and still be Mexican and send money to support people in Mexico is a different matter.

My friend, Ken, mentioned about the Vietnamese who became citizens after they came to the USA. I told him that quite a few of them actually knew English as second language before they left Nam. (I am a US Army Vietnam veteran.)

ednbarby:
Andrew, I couldn't agree with you more.  It is veiled racism, and very thinly-veiled at that.

RouxB:
Nipith-brilliant as always.

If you haven't seen it, I would really recommend renting "A Day Without A Mexican". We get feed so much BS from the government about immigration and the "drain" on society. California's economy is hugely dependent on undocumented workers. The hypocracy just chafes my hinnie.

 O0

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