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Sheyne:
I remember asking a class of 8 year olds on "Multiculturalism Day" last year: "why should we let people from other countries come to our country?" Believe me, 24 hands shot up into the air. The first kid replied "why shouldn't we?" the next kid replied "well cause they have cool stuff like pizza and we wouldn't know about it if they didn't come here" and another kid said "cause its probably really bad where they come from. They might not have anywhere to live and since we have lots of room here, they should be allowed to come here instead".
They were 8 year olds and they get it!! On a much simpler scale of course, but they understand. I'm an immigration advocate too, lemme say.
This is a very interesting thread...
rtprod:
Sheyne,
Funny how kids see the obvious. Recently a friend told me that she and her husband were going through some serious problems and when she tried to explain to her eight-year-old how they did not see eye to eye on anything anymore, and that happens to some people, her daughter said:
"Well, at least you agree on the furniture and stuff."
It's a little funny and a little sad that this child would see that her parents could connect on superficial things and not on anything else. >:(
rt
Sheyne:
Three little words I have learnt since becoming a teacher and a mum:
KIDS.... MISS.... NOTHING.
They are perceptive, they are smart and they know more than anybody gives them credit for. My son is the best loser-radar I have. If he doesn't like someone, I pay close attention.
In fact, if we had kids solving the worlds problems, i think the world would be a better place!! Talk about tough love - they're not afraid to actually be honest!! I remember sitting near a woman and her young son in a cafeteria. Somebody walked past their table and stopped to chat to the mum. After a while, she introduced the woman to her son. (i observed all this through the corner of my eye.... honest!!! ;) God I love people watching and here's why:) The son scrutinised the woman's face for a few moments and then said in this big loud voice "Well, Mrs (can't remember the name), if you're two-faced like mum says, why don't you wear your best face for going out places?" :o
Talk about ooops. ;D
opinionista:
You know there's something about this whole immigration issue that bothers me. Some people have stated, not necessarily on this board, that part of the solution to stop illegal immigration, lies in reinforcing surveillance on the US-Mexican borders and approving laws that violate human rights like the one Bush is seeking to approve. Law makers do not seem to realize those solutions are useless. Their effect is the same as curing a deep wound with a band-aid. A person who is dying from hunger would do anything in their power to cross the border and to stay in the country. It's very hard to stop them. They always find a way to go in and stay and no law can actually stop that.
To give you an example, Spain recently reinforced a huge and large fence they have in their african territories of Ceuta and Melilla to stop morrocans and africans to enter the country illegaly. They did a piece on this in the news and you could see those immigrant doing anything to jump that large fence. They didn't mind getting all tangled up on the barb wires. The situation is so bad that Spanish Red Cross put up a camp accross the fence, in Spain's territory, to cure their wounds or take care of their corpses. A lot of them die, either from the falls or the bullets shot by immigration police, but that doesn't stop the ones that come behind.
One TV news station did a piece about some of the countries where most illegal immigrant in Spain come from. And all you could see were those skinny little african kids we see Angelia Jolie and Brad Pitt hugging and kissing in People Magazine pictures. It turns out that the ones who try desperately to jump that fence are mostly parents, brothers, sisters or other relatives of those little kids. It was very heart breaking.
Well, my point is that the real solution to illegal immigration lies in doing something to help those countries either in Latin America or Africa to overcome their economic problems so people don't have to migrate. I'm sure all of them would rather stay home that having to go to such an terrible experience. Moving to a country where you don't speak the language or don't know anybody is tough. I know the solution is actually in the hands of those countries' government and politicians but the US need to back off. The United States Government claims illegal immigration is taking a toll in the economy, social services and so to speak but when a poor country like Venezuela or Bolivia decides to nationalize their natural resources to solve their economic problems US doesn't support them. I'm not sure what Bush have said about Evo Morales plans, but he has tried to put Chaves government down because of the oil issue. This doesn't make sense to me.
JennyC:
Ok, everyone take a deep deep breath. Let’s respect our differences and don’t get frustrated, because it could only cloud our judgment, and maybe misinterpret things that have been said here. I just feel some points have been missed or misinterpreted here, but could not pin point where as the thread gets longer.
There are two aspect of the issue. One deals with the existing illegal immigrants or undocumented workers, however you want to call it. To me the term illegal does not bother me as it merely states the different between legal means to come here (as defined by the current law) and illegal means. It does not bare any significance on how an individual should be treated. Undocumented workers (let’s use this word so everyone is more comfortable) want their status to be legalized or documented in US period. If you read through this thread, I don’t think anyone suggested the solution is deportation. Most people do agree that they should be provided the opportunity to legalize their status, and should be treat fairly.
Another aspect deals with the on-going enforcement/prevention so that this won’t become a pressing issue again in 5 or 10 years. This is where probably our differences in opinion lay. As I stated earlier somewhere and don’t mind to say it again, when there are more people want to come here than what you can accommodate, shouldn’t some rules be applied and enforced so that it’s fair to everyone? Right now we are talking about 12 million, what if it’s 100 million, 1 billion. Can you honestly still say everyone is welcomed here for a chance at a better life? I am told that I am a dreamer on many things, but I don’t dare to dream that big. Like it or not, the world is divided by the visible and invisible borders to separate one country from another, hence lays the difference in national interests. The world is not one big happy family where everyone shares the common interest, but it does not mean that we can not be civil to each other either.
As to the question whether US has one of the most open immigration policy, I can only speak to my own view based on many of my friends’ experience in UK, France, Germany, Japan, my own knowledge of China, and what my immigration lawyer told me. I did not mean it to be the final say on this issue and will do more research if time permits. Also when you talk about immigration, it’s different from come to visit, study or work. “An immigrant is a person who intends to stay permanently, in contrast to a casual visitor or traveler.” (from wikipedia) It may be easier to visit some countries, but it’s hard to actually become a permanent resident or citizen of that country. Many countries currently simply do not offer that as an option. It could definitely change as it’s all driven by demand and supply. If they are a lot of people who wants to immigrant to, let’s say China for example, I am sure the government will start to recognize the need and make that option more accessible.
Let’s give everyone the room to express their opinion and don’t dismiss their view too quickly. Honestly I am little concern to continue posting on this thread as what I said may be misinterpreted since I don’t articulate my points well. I always think what brought us here together beside Brokeback Mountain is not being judgmental on the things that different from you, or you don’t necessarily agree to.
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