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JennyC:
Just want to add that this becomes my new favorite hideout place now. Some serious discussion and interesting perspectives we have here. :)
You guys are all awesome!
sparkle_motion:
I agree with the last couple of posts. You can't make broad generalizations about 12 million people because of a few experiences you've had or people you know have had.
JennyC:
--- Quote from: littledarlin on May 04, 2006, 10:30:20 pm ---i just appreciate what i have, and if i'm in a position to help someone who needs it then i'm going to help them without thinking twice.
--- End quote ---
Andrew, what do you mean here?
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: littledarlin on May 04, 2006, 10:30:20 pm ---del, i think you're taking the issue too personally. you need to look at the bigger picture.
--- End quote ---
I thought I was. ???
--- Quote ---this sounds bad, i really don't want to seem negative, but because you or people you've known have had a few bad experiences with illegal immigrants does not make them all bad people. as with any major group of people, there are always a few bad seeds.
--- End quote ---
Of course, I take this particularly to heart. I live this every single day. WAS living this every single day as a child. I saw and still see what happens. It hasn't been a 'few' bad experiences, it's been many. Some life threatening.
Yes, there are definitely some wonderful people out there. I currently adore my mother's new next door neighbor. He's a young guy, brought his family (his wife looks dangerously underage) to this little house. I think he washes dishes somewhere. But he works hard, keeps up his house and looks after my mother like she's his mother. His wife however, we don't see much of, she stays home all the time with the kids and so far as we can tell, never goes out anywhere.
Heh, and y'all are going to find this funny - one of my uncles by marriage used to be a coyote. If you guys know what that is.
--- Quote ---looking specifically at mexico, you said yourself you've seen first hand how serious the conditions are there. the sad part is that things aren't all that great HERE, but there is some truth to what RT said: this place is like disneyland to some people. do you really think that people are in mexico right now saying "gee i can't support my family, let's leave everything we've worked for, the lives we've built, our friends and family, and go to america!" ok, maybe there are some people willing to do that, but for someone to leave, illegally, it takes a LOT.
--- End quote ---
Many people are willing to do this BECAUSE they don't have anything (Ennis: Don't have nuthin', don't need nuthin'). It's easier for them to pick up and leave. Harder on their families, but easier in other ways.
--- Quote ---this argument reminds me of the abortion debate. pro-lifers act like women have abortions for fun. having an abortion is one of the hardest choices a woman would ever have to make! are there people that take advantage of it? yes. but a very tiny percentage do. because of that tiny percentage, do we want to make abortions illegal for ALL women? regardless of how desperately they need one?
--- End quote ---
Good analogy. However, the argument could also state:
The more we have of sex education and contraceptives, the less we would have a need for abortion, so after a while, abortion CAN be strictly regulated because so few women would need it.
The more we cut back on Immigration and make things difficult for illegal aliens, the less crime would be committed by them. Yes, only the bad apples commit crimes, but since they're not supposed to be here in the first place, their crimes could have easily been prevented by not allowing any of them in the country at all.
Remember the boat people of Cuba? We welcomed them to the U.S. fleeing Castro's regimie. How were we to know that Castro had emptied his prisons and sent convicted felons/thieves and murderers to our country?
We found out when our citizens started suffering from their crimes. We started being a bit more stringent after that. But that is cold comfort to the families of the people who were murdered by them.
--- Quote ---the reason so many of these issues overlap is because people try to demonize the victims of these types of oppression, when all you do is put a human face to it, and everything's suddenly changed.
--- End quote ---
Sometimes. :) Sometimes the human face gets put on it, but the attitude does not change.
--- Quote ---as far as people not having children, i can't really comment further on that. the issue of access to contraceptives has been brought up, and i agree i think people who have children without means to support them is STUPID, people do it regardless for a number of reasons.
--- End quote ---
Makes life hard. Perhaps if life becomes very hard for them and their children, they'll think twice about having more. If other people keep funding programs to keep their children fed, they might not.
I have a cousin who's a crack addict. She happens to be a 40 year old crack addict because her mother kept sending her money and taking her to the hospital and bailing her out of jail. Had her mother instituted a program of tough love 20 years ago, perhaps now she would be a RECOVERING crack addict.
Sometimes people have to hit bottom to learn.
In Mexico, back in the day, there was no welfare/social programs. The only social programs to help the destitute were church charities. If you got unemployed, you pretty much starved. It made for great incentive to keep working no matter what, take any job you could.
I remember as a child shopping in downtown - Victoria was it? - with my relatives. There was man fallen over the sidewalk. People had to step over him.
Was he dead? Drunk? Sick? I didn't know. But what I did realize, was that no one was going to come for him. He would have to get up/recover by himself.
That made quite an impression on me as a child.
JennyC:
Ok, before I have to log off, let me just put another one for Andrew. The water is definitely muddier now when we have several issues being discussed here. :P
--- Quote ---it just kills me that bush can let the UAE control our ports , but the real problem is people coming over here from mexico who want a better life for their families?
--- End quote ---
Dear Andrew, I did not mean to pick on what you said here. You said it in an earlier post. I do want to add my two cents on the bolded part.
I do wonder why can’t the UAE company operates US port when the same port used to be operated by a UK company? Currently there are other US ports operated by foreign owned companies (I heard UK, Singapore, China are among those). It’s perfectly fine that after 9/11 US may want to adjust policy on who can operate its ports to protect national interest. But to pick on this particular deal because it’s an UAE company for whatever underlying assumption, while not make a fuss on other ports that currently operated by other foreign owned company, that is double standard to me. Last time I checked, UAE is still not among the “Axle of evil” :). Can’t tell you how many times I am frustrated with the double standard US applied to both domestic (gay rights included) and international affairs. And none of the political parties is immune from applying double standard.
Democrat used this to attack what traditionally considered republican’s stronghold on national security (which I still don’t get), I am sorry to say that it’s a cheap shot to me. It’s ok to question why a deal that impact national security because it’s regarding US port was not reviewed or approved by certain committee before it went into full action, but it’s not right to pick on this because it’s an UAE company.
Again Andrew, I did not mean to take your word out of context. It’s an interesting topic and I want to know what other Tremblayans’ thoughts are. :)
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