Our BetterMost Community > Chez Tremblay
Stay Home.
JennyC:
I think we all got tied up in our own emotions and some very specific points/comments in the discussion. I got lost in all the argument since I don’t quite sure I understand what everyone’s positions are. It’s easier to say that I am an immigrant rights advocate, but it’s a different story to have to offer solutions to specific challenges.
Let’s say that now you get to write the proposal on immigration reform, what are your suggestions? I have some high level questions to frame our discussion. You don’t have to answer if you don’t want to. I would appreciate if you do :) . This will help us understand the context of your argument. If I missed anything, by all means add them.
1. What should be done to the existing illegal immigrants/undocumented workers here?
2. How should the cost for processing increasing immigrants and subsequent cost on education, healthcare system be subsidized, from the current budget or where?
3. Can US afford to have an open door policy to welcome everyone who wants to come here to come here and grant them residency and/or citizenship?
4. If "Yes" to question no. 3, how can US support the volume of the immigration (e.g. can US economy and available resources digest the growing population, keep in mind that this growing population tends to have lower level of education, therefore there are limitation on what kind of jobs they may qualify)
5. If “No” to question no. 3, then what kind of immigration policy should be implemented?
6. What kind of enforcement on immigration should be implemented if any (e.g. border control, employer, etc.)?
opinionista:
--- Quote ---Or perhaps we'll have a whole new class of citizens who are unskilled and uneducated who are now themselves, priced out of the workplace by new illegals and thus become burdens to the society at large.
Heard the latest from a relative. He was stupid enough to bring some mail order bride home from south of the border. He got her a visa and paid for her to come up. Several months of living together (chastely apparently), they made plans to get married.
We all bought outfits for this shindig. Then right before the wedding, girl says she wants to borrow his car to pick up a friend at the airport. Since she can hardly dirve, he says he'll go with her. She doesn't want him to go. He asks why her fiance shouldn't meet her friends.
Tearfully she admits the friend is her boyfriend, but she's very grateful to him for bringing her to this country.
He asks for his money back. She doesn't have it, of course.
He has her visa revoked, reports her to Immigration, packs her up and buys her a ticket home.
Unfortunately, he couldn't afford a non-stop flight to her home country. Do you know where I'm going with this? She gets on the plane, but when it lands in another U.S. city to make the connecting flight, she gets off, gets the final part of the flight refunded to her and disappears.
A few months later, she calls from where she is living with her boyfriend to mock my in-law. Laughing and making fun of him.
Oh, no, not the end of the story.
She shows up a year later on his doorstep, destitute begging for forgiveness.
Where is her boyfriend? In jail, doing 7-10 on a drug charge.
She's 8.5 months pregnant.
We told him to call Immigration and ship her home quick before she had the baby here and then could stay since her child would be a citizen.
Doofus didn't act in time and she had the baby here.
Welcome to our new illiegal immigrant citizen and her baby.
The father a convicted criminal, the mother uneducated, no visa, no green card, doesn't speak the language, no money, no job skiills.
Can you say, welfare mother? Because that is what she is, among such things as liar, thief and conwoman.
You can say I'm naive rtprod - and you know I've got nothing but love fer ye - but I think I'm the realistic one
--- End quote ---
I actually feel sorry for her. Think about it, if she agreed to marry a man she met via postal service, she must have been in a desperate situation. And her boyfriend was probably a poor boy who had no choice but to become a drug mule. People aren't always downright evil.
Anyway, I'm hispanic myself and I have had my share of bad experiences with immigrants. Some think because you're hispanic too, you're going to lend them a hand and do illegal stuff for them. My mother once hired a woman from the Dominican Republic to help my grandfather who was very ill and needed help around the house. My grandma had already died. Well, that woman wanted me to marry some cousin of her who was at the Dominican Republic. After I refused, she began this harrassing campaing in order to convince me. She made my life impossible for about two months, and even tried to make things go wrong between my then boyfriend and me. My mother had to fire her because of this.
After getting rid of her my mother hired another woman, also from the Dominican Republic, who stole some of my grandma jewelry and stuff from the kitchen. We reported her to the police, but she found out somehow, and dissappeared without a trace. The next person my mom hired, who was also dominican (they're the only ones who do this kind of work in Puerto Rico), was a very good girl, wonderful, honest, respectful and we kept her until my grandfather died, and then recommended her to someone who also needed help with a sick parent. My mother hires her sometimes when she needs an extra hand around the house. We aren't rich, but my mother has a demanding job and sometimes needs help. (My sister and I are in Europe). None of those women are illegal, they have permit to be in the country but they got into Puerto Rico illegaly.
So my point is, there are good and bad people among illegal immigrants, as there are among american people. A lot of them come from poor dysfunctional families, and don't know any better. But the great majority are honest people who come to this country to work. They're not criminals and do not deserve to be in jail. There are other ways to deal with this situation without violating human rights. Besides, putting all these people behind the bars is not cost effective. The money to keep them in prisons is going to come from tax payers, and that's not fair. That money shoud go to public health services, for instance, so people don't have to spend hard earned money buying insurances that in the end will not cover all of their medical needs.
sparkle_motion:
The view that mexicans and south americans should stay in their country and fight it out for gov't change at the risk of their lives and the lives of their families is almost comical! If any of us comfortable americans were faced with the same prospect, we'd run! Why should we expect something of someone else that we wouldn't even do ourselves?
And the theory of "they're taking our jobs!" reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend. She said the same exact thing. I laughed heartily and said YOU HAVE A JOB, ARE YOU RETARDED?
rtprod:
--- Quote ---The view that mexicans and south americans should stay in their country and fight it out for gov't change at the risk of their lives and the lives of their families is almost comical! If any of us comfortable americans were faced with the same prospect, we'd run! Why should we expect something of someone else that we wouldn't even do ourselves?
And the theory of "they're taking our jobs!" reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend. She said the same exact thing. I laughed heartily and said YOU HAVE A JOB, ARE YOU RETARDED?
--- End quote ---
Well, at least we got a laugh out of that last line. I too think this concept of staying to fight for a revolution when your economy stinks and your government is rife with corruption and you don't have food on the table is laughable.
But then I was "lucky" enough to be born a white male in America (gay, yeah, but I can "pass" if need be), so what would I know about it?
rt
opinionista:
--- Quote from: sparkle_motion on May 05, 2006, 09:41:29 am ---The view that mexicans and south americans should stay in their country and fight it out for gov't change at the risk of their lives and the lives of their families is almost comical! If any of us comfortable americans were faced with the same prospect, we'd run! Why should we expect something of someone else that we wouldn't even do ourselves?
And the theory of "they're taking our jobs!" reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend. She said the same exact thing. I laughed heartily and said YOU HAVE A JOB, ARE YOU RETARDED?
--- End quote ---
Well, Bolivia voted for a president that's actually trying to make things work and take them out of poverty. Is a matter of who you vote for. I know that's not option for everybody but people do fight to make things better. Americans are among them. Why do you think there's no draft anymore for example. How about blacks civil rights? Women's right? They didn't fall from heaven, people fought for them and hard. Some even lost their lives in the process. Things could be better than they're now, but they're have certainly improved in the past 50 years.
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