Our BetterMost Community > Chez Tremblay
BBM and the sin of Sodom
JennyC:
--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on May 01, 2006, 10:31:24 pm ---Fair enough Jenny, no disrespect intended.
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:) None taken. Sometimes I don't quite get when people are joking or not. Must be a culture thing. ;)
RouxB:
Thanks TJ, a little knowledge can go a long way.
TJ:
--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on May 01, 2006, 10:31:24 pm ---
--- Quote from: JennyC on May 01, 2006, 09:55:32 pm ---Well, to me it's. :) Like I said, I don't know much about Christianity, so I am trying to learn on this subject here, and want to know from all perspectives.
--- End quote ---
Fair enough Jenny, no disrespect intended. The strange thing about Christians is their need to see everything as black and white and separate, though this is probably not a monopolised characteristic of Christians as much as the unenlightened.
--- End quote ---
Chris,
Just like gays should not be stereotyped, those who believe in Jesus the Christ should not be stereotyped either.
There are people who claim to be Christians who are fundamentalists and non-christians refer to them as Evangelicals.
But, a Believer in Jesus does not have to be a fundamentalist to be Evangelical. Even Jesus was not a fundamentalist; read the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew chapters 5 though 7 to see why he could not be a fundamentalist. In chapter 5, Jesus replaced or modified some of the commandments of Moses to fit his own teachings.
Here in the USA, some right-wing fundamentalist Christians are calling certain ordained ministers left-wing liberals when those ministers are literally middle of the road moderates.
delalluvia:
Well said, TJ. I looked for, but couldn't find a review I read on the Lot story. But the word yadah could mean 'have sex with'. The fact that Lot offered the crowd his virgin daughters tend to follow this line of reasoning. Why offer the daughters if the crowd was just wanting to check the credentials of the two visitors?
The writer cast aspersion on Lot. If he was such a 'righteous' man, what was he doing still living in Sodom? Why hadn't he moved? And him with two virgin daughters. Apparently Lot got some jollies out of living next to the less-than-righteous people. His daughters 'got' Lot drunk to seduce him. Yeah right, you can't get drunk unless you want to. These guys actually drank wine like it was water, so they knew 'when to say when'.
The angels told Lot to go to the mountains to be protected from what's coming.
Lot didn't want to be away from his creature comforts. He had the cojones to start bargaining with the angels! He actually counter-offered - couldn't he just go to the next town? :-\
Another writer mentioned that perhaps Lot's wife wasn't looking back at Sodom out of defiance of god or curiosity. After all, the story is she has two other married daughters. She could not and they could not compel their husbands to leave if they didn't want to, so they were doomed to stay in the city. This writer simply speculates that Lot's wife looked back because she was hoping her daughters might be following with their families. And we all know what she got for her pains. :(
Aussie Chris:
--- Quote from: TJ on May 01, 2006, 11:45:43 pm ---Just like gays should not be stereotyped, those who believe in Jesus the Christ should not be stereotyped either.
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TJ, you make a fair point regarding the disservice it does to be stereotypical, but with respect, I wasn't pointing the finger at the fundamentalists or the evangelicals. Nor, as I said, is this a Christian specific thing, it's a common across all religions. Although in this instant my brevity made me dismissive and unfair, I stand by my assertion about there being a correlation between those that focus entirely on scripture and a lack of enlightenment. In my mind this is a big failing of humanity in general, that we choose not to think for ourselves nor take personal responsibility for our actions. I don't need a book to tell me that it is wrong to kill, steal, etc, etc, I already know this in my heart.
If I were to define enlightenment (to me) it would be to take full responsibility for your actions with the understanding that a sinful act is to harm another, and a virtuous act it to help another. It is my belief that this is the underlying context/message of all religious texts, although mostly told in parable form. However for some reason this does not seem to be enough for some. They must see the Bible as some kind of literal diary; that somehow the book itself is divine, and this is where I find myself in contention with the church. Leviticus, for example, has many passages that are cruel, disgusting, and hateful, yet certain parts get dragged up from time to time for reasons that are all too familiar. Also, like many religions the consideration of the role of women is blatantly misogynistic (although The Da Vinci Code stuff seems silly to me).
I believe in Jesus and the importance he had/has, and I know the sermon that you refer. Although I had a Christian upbringing, I no longer consider myself a Christian, at least in the religious sense. I admit that I do hold a certain amount of resentment towards Christians (this is experiential), and there may be some tarring with the same brush in how I express it from time to time. For that I do apologise. You talked in another thread somewhere about the difference between spirituality and religion, and on that point I whole-heartedly agree. For me, connecting completely with spirit, and internalising the messages of compassion and forgiveness, supersedes any text or sermon. In a way, I find evangelism to be a step in the wrong direction for humanity, although I acknowledge that you would feel differently.
I hope this post better states my thoughts and feelings with less derision?
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