Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > IMDb Remarkable Writings Rewound
I did once -- by EnnisLovesJack
TOoP/Bruce:
Thanks guys...
by tmolthan (Tue Mar 14 2006 15:37:09 )
I just wanted to say thanks to all the other fans for their insights in this wonderful thread. You're all kick-ass! This movie is a masterpiece that will live forever in our hearts.
"You know it could be like this, just like this, always..."
Re: I did once.
by northernlad (Tue Mar 14 2006 20:25:24 )
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I'm responding here, based on my own personal experience with my own temper. But has anyone here ever been talking to someone and not liked something the other person said to you, or something they said just pissed you off but you stew on it and you keep it in for awhile? It could be minutes, days or hell even months before you bring it up to that person but when you do you just explode.
I think Ennis was doing that here right after Jack mentions Mexico. I think somehow Ennis knew or had caught wind of some of the things that go on down in Mexico and that's how he knew about the prostitution. Still, Ennis chooses to keep it inside of himself, just like he does everything else. But then the conversation leads to the "I did once" and that sets Ennis off and he lets his anger about Mexico out in the open.
I do think that Jack using past tense here stung like a knife to Ennis and it may have struck him as Jack being a bit nagging towards him when Ennis had made it clear that it was never going to happen for them like that. I also think the past tense Jack uses also signals fear in Ennis that it may be coming to an end. At that moment he decides to let his anger out about Mexico because he's jealous that Jack may have been with other men. It also means that since Jack has been with other men, that Jack is gay and Ennis has to confront that as well.
Just my own thoughts on the subject.
"And I need you more than want you and I want you for all time"
Re: I did once.
by tmolthan (Wed Mar 15 2006 05:46:30 )
Yes, northernlad, all of that is true, but also at that moment Ennis is forced to face the fact the fact that he is also gay...hence the jealousy and fear of abandonment. That's why he breaks down and says "Get the f uck off me!" but then allows Jack to embrace him...this scene is the biggest turning point in the whole movie where truths are realized.
Re: I did once.
by kevinmcg (Sat Mar 18 2006 14:55:18 )
I think Ennis is somewhat mad that Jack has the ability to see a life beyond what Ennis can see, even if lot of Jack's dreams never come true. Think about the conversation they have during a previous meeting while Ennis is washing dishes at the stream: Ennis opens up to Jack that he's scared about people thinking they know his secret, Jack suggests he get away and move to some place like Texas (presumably so that they can be close to each and together more often) and Ennis just blows up at him.
Jack n' Ennis forever
Re: I did once.
by atz75 (Wed Mar 22 2006 21:40:40 )
What amazing insights in this thread.
Re: I did once.
by atz75 (Sat Mar 25 2006 20:26:36 )
Still one of the best threads.
In thinking about this last argument scene... Can someone explain why people have latched on to the "I wish I knew how to quit you" line as something funny or to joke about. I just completely fail to see the humor in that line and especially in that scene.
Also, about this big scene, I've come to realize how important that intense hug is at the end of their fight. I think the tragedy that follows this scene would be unbearable if we did not get the sense that Jack and Ennis had reconciled after this blow-up.
Re: I did once.
by atz75 (Sun Mar 26 2006 19:48:08 )
-"For me, Brokeback Mountain is the one place/time when their love was simple, pure and uncomplicated. They had no one else to answer to or pretend for. They were free. This was the only time they were truly happy (for more than 2 days at a time, I mean.)" - Great thought from ELJ
I think Jack uses Brokeback as evidence that their lives really would have been happy together if they had lived together. After all, that first summer was the only time that they really truly did live together and they set up their own version of "domestic" happiness. Of course, both men recognize repeatedly that this was essentially the happiest time of their lives.
Re: I did once.
by santsa70 (Wed Mar 29 2006 10:34:33 )
In a thread with 85 posts I'm sure this idea has already been shared, but I personally thought it made Ennis mad the same way it would make any person in an argument mad. Jack's saying he once had a plan that could have worked but never came to be because Ennis wouldn't let it. To me, its just one of those things someone says in order to pass the blame on the other guy, and even if Jack doesn't mean it in that way, that's how Ennis takes it. He believes Jack is saying he is to blame.
Re: I did once.
by atz75 (Wed Apr 5 2006 23:04:12 )
One of the most insightful discussions of this scene...
Who knew the past tense could be so significant!
Re: I did once.
by revolution-hk (Wed May 10 2006 17:31:26 )
Becoz Jack have suggested so many times to move together, and Ennis can never fulfil his wish.
So during the last vacation with Ennis, Jack have not mentioned this until once more Ennis let him down. But Ennis did not noticed the difference between "I did once" and "Let's move together", which may imply Jack have nearly abandoned all hope. Ennis just though Jack was bringing up the issue again.
Re: I did once.
by dly64 (Thu Jun 8 2006 05:17:42 )
I didn't read through this whole thread, but let me tell you ... it is the way Jack said "I did once."
In the short story, it reads like this:
"I did once." The tone was bitter and accusatory.
...... "Hell yes, I been. Where's the f..king problem?" Braced for it all these years and here it came, late and unexpected.
This scene was a pivotal scene because there was so much unspoken between them. Here is an additional question ... did Jack have sex with any one other than the prostitute? I happen to think he did.
... Food for thought.
"We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em" - Ennis, BBM
Re: I did once.
by go76 (Thu Jun 8 2006 05:37:55 )
UPDATED Thu Jun 8 2006 05:45:11
did Jack have sex with any one other than the prostitute?
He said it himself: "I am not you, I can't go with just couple of high-altitude *beeps* once or twice a year". And just before there was something like "First count the damn few times we were together for nearly 20 years, than measure the short leash you've been keeping me all this time, and then ask me about Mexico, and accuse me for needing something I hardly never get".
And that was the moment when Ennis broke down. He finally realized you have no right to demand a person to deprive himself from something you are not willing to provide. He was deadly jealous at that moment, demanding and expecting total fidelity, but all this time giving nothing in return but small bits of whatever he considered as love, restricted by fear, paranoia and rejection (not mentioning the humiliation).
So did Jack has other persons to have sex with? Yes. Did he had another lover? Definitely not.
God, I needed a cigarette after that. And I don't even smoke.
Re: I did once.
by dly64 (Thu Jun 8 2006 10:42:20 )
And that was the moment when Ennis broke down. He finally realized you have no right to demand a person to deprive himself from something you are not willing to provide. He was deadly jealous at that moment, demanding and expecting total fidelity, but all this time giving nothing in return but small bits of whatever he considered as love, restricted by fear, paranoia and rejection (not mentioning the humiliation).
So did Jack have other persons to have sex with? Yes. Did he had another lover? Definitelly not.
That is very well said, and I agree with you. I don't think that this was any news to Ennis. I think he knew it, but couldn't face it. It was as if he had a shot in the heart when the reality of the situation was actually "out there". They were each other's one-in-a-lifetime love. So, even though Jack had sex with other men, it was just that ... sex. Nothing more.
Diane
"We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em" - Ennis, BBM
Re: I did once.
by jecesa (Wed Jun 14 2006 16:33:54 )
hi, i finally watched BBM and am a serious movie person even though i delay watching them sometimes. So, I"m just digging through IMDB on it now. I was relieved that all the jokes and parodies didn't touch or ruin the experience.
First, "why did so many jokes arise from the 'quitting'" scene. I think for the same reason this thread exists and it's reflection of the content of that scene. First you have all of Ennis' unexpressed love which was never a mystery to me but anyway then you get an argument based on expression of frustrations and hopelessness - they are finally getting to the point where they admit out loud: yes this means everything but something has to change I can't deal with it. Ennis finally tells Jack that he's made his life-stilting decisions not so much out of frugality and practicality but to keep them alive. The "quitting" line is Jack practically screaming from the mountaintop his attachment.
It's a pinnacle scene emotionally. Some people are drawn into the expressiveness of the characters. Others are made uncomfortable and squeamish and use humor to deflect their emotions.
Regarding the "I did once" - I remember when the idea of people going to Mexico was synonymous with prostitution. I think it gets woven into their conversation as unfair fighting. Not an entirely detached way to hurt someone but parallel to the bloody-nose brawl they had that led to the forever entwined 2-shirt memento. Jack is frustrated to always have to wait for Ennis to say "no" we can't be together this month, this season, never live together. It was no surprise to me that he would throw in a statement to make him jealous and try to spur him to realize other men have been in the picture as a sucker punch.
Re: I did once.
by dly64 (Wed Jun 14 2006 17:12:27 )
Regarding the "I did once" - I remember when the idea of people going to Mexico was synonymous with prostitution. I think it gets woven into their conversation as unfair fighting. Not an entirely detached way to hurt someone but parallel to the bloody-nose brawl they had that led to the forever entwined 2-shirt memento. Jack is frustrated to always have to wait for Ennis to say "no" we can't be together this month, this season, never live together. It was no surprise to me that he would throw in a statement to make him jealous and try to spur him to realize other men have been in the picture as a sucker punch.
I agree with your interpretation. The short story is very similar to the screenplay during this scene, but adds some additional insight:
Like vast clouds of steam from thermal springs in winter the years of things unsaid and now unsayable -- admissions, declarations, shames, guilts, fears -- rose around them. Ennis stood as if heart-shot, face grey and deep-lined, grimacing, eyes screwed shut, fists clenched, legs caving, hit the ground on his knees.
....they torqued things almost to where they had been, for what they said was no news. Nothing ended, nothing begun, nothing resolved.
It's these kinds of scenes that make this movie so realistic and tragic.
Diane
"We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em" - Ennis, BBM
TOoP/Bruce:
Re: I did once.
by mark-1589 (Fri Jan 5 2007 23:34:58 )
I understand the dynamics of this scene somewhat differently. It is a pivotal scene because it marks a major turning point in their relationship. Their ongoing relationship was built upon an uneasy compromise that involved an absolute refusal to acknowledge what they were doing for what it was - sex between men. Ennis simply could not come to terms with this. As was shown by their first meeting after their first chance encounter, they categorized it as some "one shot deal", a strange "thing" that came over them on Brokeback ("Brokeback got us good"). After a four year absence (or more likely sometime in the intervening years), Ennis realizes he needs Jack, but he can only do it while maintaining the illusion that they aint queer. So this is the deal on Ennis' side, and Jack goes along with it even though he wants more - alot more. He repeatedly proposes they move in together, but Ennis squelches it with silly arguments like I got my life here and you got yours there, etc., the more pertinent argument being societal rejection of it and gay bashing - "two men living together - no way". Keep in mind the point that Jack makes at this final argument that Ennis used to be open to meeting him often, but is now harder to see than the Pope. The reason is because, when he was married, it was easier for him to hide from himself the reality of what he was doing. More than being a "beard" for the outside world, Alma was a "beard" for Ennis himself. Once she divorced him, he was even less comfortable with the idea of being with Jack, despite the fact that it would then have been easy to see him often (if Ennis had wanted him around, Jack surely could have divorced Lureen and moved back to Wyoming).
So, to return to my original point, Ennis and Jack have an unstable deal. They meet every once in a while, but act as if it is not what it is (don't speak about it that way). For Jack to bring up his proposal of living together represents for Ennis a breach of their unspoken deal. THIS is the REASON Ennis goes ballistic, not because of jealousy, but because Jack exposed the reality of who they were and what they had been doing all those years. This is why Ennis takes the nuclear option, by accusing JACK of being QUEER (what they had going between them was something different, but going off with boys in Mexico means that Jack is queer, which Ennis cannot tolerate - it dispels the illusion of who they are). Ennis' "threat" (I don't think Ennis was serious that he would kill him - some have even suggested that it was in fact Ennis who killed Jack) was rather just a warning - cool it and don't go there now or ever. Instead of heeding that warning Jack persists and expounds upon how hard it is for him to get by with the little sex Ennis gives him and that he needs the "comfort of strangers" so to speak. This just blows up their unspoken agreement. Jack has totally unmasked their relationship and stuck it into Ennis' face. This is why Ennis then breaks down, because he is being confronted with the reality of his life and it is not a pretty picture. He revolved his whole life around being able to maintain this relationship with Jack, even though he tries to keep it at a minimum. This is why he accuses Jack of being to blame - its because of you that I am nothing and nowhere.
Well, that's the way I see it. There are some problems with this interpretation, such as the fact that Ennis still wrote Jack about meeting in November, which means their blowup did not have the effect of making Ennis reject Jack (perhaps he was hoping that blowup would blow over and they could go back to their previous unstable compromise). Perhaps it's an indication and admission that he simply doesn't want to lose Jack, even despite Jack making reality too clear to him. Still the blowup affected Ennis in one way that we see. I think it clearly was the motivation for his breakup with Cassie. It made him at least see the reality that he was using here as a "beard" so that he would not have to face up to the reality of his life. After seeing how much he had hurt Jack (and Alma too), he probably realized he had to put an end to it, so he just stopped seeing her. It hurt her, but clearly less then she would have been hurt had he married her. As for Jack, it is anybody's guess how the blowup affected him. The film suggests that he gave up on Ennis and had decided to start a life with someone else - Randall or whoever. Perhaps his death (if it was from gay bashing) was due to the fact that, freed from a sense of obligation to Ennis, he went overboard in seeking male companionship and fatally exposed himself (we saw earlier how his try at the rodeo clown was so transparent).
Re: I did once.
by Shasta254 (Sat Jan 6 2007 05:08:52 )
Mark 1589---I really like your above post. It makes a lot of points that I hadn't thought of in quite the way you put them. Interesting. Thanks.
"Gettin' tired of your dumbass missin'!"
Re: I did once.
by mark-1589 (Sun Jan 7 2007 10:03:04 )
Thanx! I'm glad you found it interesting. I'm curious if other posters consider this a viable interpretation of what happened. I hadn't noticed about the shirt button.
Re: I did once.
by norway-jm (Sun Jan 7 2007 10:40:33 )
Having been the Jack in a Jack/Ennis relationship (only four years, but the same thing... stealing away a few times a year and trying to cram in everything a relationship is supposed to be in "never enough time, never enough..."), I have always taken a different view of the "high-altitude *beeps*" line.
To me, he's not really talking about a lack of sex. He's saying "you might be satisfied with how limited our relationship is, but I'm not. I want--NEED--more from you than getting together a few times a year, having sex, and then saying goodbye again." He's saying that "a couple of high-altitude *beeps* once or twice a year" is not enough for him in terms of their relationship... that this is what their relationship now boils down to, and the last time they really were close was on Brokeback Mountain. Now it's just become a few drive-by *beeps*, and that's not enough for Jack. He wants a real relationship, and to spend quality time with Ennis, as opposed to a series of one-night stands. The fact that Ennis doesn't want this depresses Jack to the point of being driven into the arms of others for comfort.
Re: I did once.
by ClancyPantsNasty (Sun Jan 7 2007 12:07:00 )
Hi norway-jm --
"To me, he's not really talking about a lack of sex. He's saying "you might be satisfied with how limited our relationship is, but I'm not. I want--NEED--more from you than getting together a few times a year, having sex, and then saying goodbye again." He's saying that "a couple of high-altitude *beeps* once or twice a year" is not enough for him in terms of their relationship... that this is what their relationship now boils down to, and the last time they really were close was on Brokeback Mountain. Now it's just become a few drive-by *beeps*, and that's not enough for Jack. He wants a real relationship, and to spend quality time with Ennis, as opposed to a series of one-night stands."
Yes, yes, yes, and YES!
This is exactly how I have always taken that comment. Emotional love v. the sexual expression of it. Thus follows the dozy embrace... same thing. You put it into very nice words.
...just a couple more are worth it... yes, yes, and YES!
Re: I did once.
by norway-jm (Sun Jan 7 2007 12:15:25 )
YES, Clancy! He's not saying "I need more *beeps* than the few I get from you," he's saying "I need more from you than a few *beeps*"! He's saying "I can't make it IN THIS RELATIONSHIP if this is all it's going to be, a couple of high-altitude *beeps* once or twice a year. I need more from you, more OF you."
Ain't never enough time, never enough...
Re: I did once.
by ClancyPantsNasty (Sun Jan 7 2007 12:35:50 )
YES, norway-jm, YES
A shared and sexless hunger he craved.
Re: I did once.
by adpaduch (Sat Jan 6 2007 18:14:36 )
This is truly a wonderful scene, portrays the frustration and the pain that both of these characters have been living with for almost 20 years. Watching it again this week though, my eyes keep focusing on Jake's shirt collar. Watch and see if you notice what I did.
Life's too short, babe, time is flying
I'm looking for baggage that goes with mine.
Re: I did once.
by Shasta254 (Sat Jan 6 2007 18:19:08 )
Haha--now I am curious. Here I go to look. BRB.
"Gettin' tired of your dumbass missin'!"
Re: I did once.
by Shasta254 (Sat Jan 6 2007 18:32:31 )
Well, I noticed that his shirt is buttoned, then not buttoned, then buttoned again. I don't think that's what you meant though. What was it?
"Gettin' tired of your dumbass missin'!"
Re: I did once.
by adpaduch (Sat Jan 6 2007 19:02:37 )
Yeah that's all i meant. Sorry to disappoint.
Life's too short, babe, time is flying
I'm looking for baggage that goes with mine.
Re: I did once.
by Shasta254 (Sat Jan 6 2007 19:09:50 )
UPDATED Sat Jan 6 2007 19:10:31
LOL---No it was cool. I just thought you meant that it was something about his collar. I kept looking for make-up or holes in the collar itself. :) I really liked seeing what you were talking about. I have seen the movie 30-40 times, and never noticed that! Thanks for pointing it out. I wonder why that happened? Different filming times?
"Gettin' tired of your dumbass missin'!"
Re: I did once.
by adpaduch (Sat Jan 6 2007 21:59:35 )
I guess it kind of bummed me out because I always thought that maybe it was a one take thing and it obviously wasn't. I was reading all the goofs on the IMDB BBM page and that one wasn't listed.
Life's too short, babe, time is flying
I'm looking for baggage that goes with mine.
Brown Eyes:
Yay!!! This is one of the all-time brilliant analysis threads. I love the complicated analysis that's possible of such a deceptively simple sentence as "I did once." The fact that the use of the past tense here is so significant is amazing. Thanks for re-posting it here. These old threads really are a stroll down memory lane.
;D
ifyoucantfixit:
by santsa70 (Wed Mar 29 2006 10:34:33 )
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In a thread with 85 posts I'm sure this idea has already been shared, but I personally thought it made Ennis mad the same way it would make any person in an argument mad. Jack's saying he once had a plan that could have worked but never came to be because Ennis wouldn't let it. To me, its just one of those things someone says in order to pass the blame on the other guy, and even if Jack doesn't mean it in that way, that's how Ennis takes it. He believes Jack is saying he is to blame.
by ClancyPantsNasty (Sun Jan 7 2007 12:07:00 )
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Hi norway-jm --
"To me, he's not really talking about a lack of sex. He's saying "you might be satisfied with how limited our relationship is, but I'm not. I want--NEED--more from you than getting together a few times a year, having sex, and then saying goodbye again." He's saying that "a couple of high-altitude *beeps* once or twice a year" is not enough for him in terms of their relationship... that this is what their relationship now boils down to, and the last time they really were close was on Brokeback Mountain. Now it's just become a few drive-by *beeps*, and that's not enough for Jack. He wants a real relationship, and to spend quality time with Ennis, as opposed to a series of one-night stands."
Yes, yes, yes, and YES!
This is exactly how I have always taken that comment. Emotional love v. the sexual expression of it. Thus follows the dozy embrace... same thing. You put it into very nice words.
...just a couple more are worth it... yes, yes, and YES!
Re: I did once.
by norway-jm (Sun Jan 7 2007 12:15:25 )
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YES, Clancy! He's not saying "I need more *beeps* than the few I get from you," he's saying "I need more from you than a few *beeps*"! He's saying "I can't make it IN THIS RELATIONSHIP if this is all it's going to be, a couple of high-altitude *beeps* once or twice a year. I need more from you, more OF you."
Ain't never enough time, never enough...
Re: I did once.
by ClancyPantsNasty (Sun Jan 7 2007 12:35:50 )
I too agree with the statements made here.
I always thought Jack was very irritated all the years of their relationship, about the scarce amount of time he was allowed. Ennis making all the rules, and deciding when and where they could meet. They must have settled on a routine that he at least could depend on as regular and tolerable. But he was always reminded of the fact that Ennis never sought other men. He was also aware certainly that Ennis was a very possessive person. Known by the remark he makes "the short fuching leash you keep me on." So he was always careful to skirt the issues of his association with others. Such as the way he said "ranch formans wife," instead of ranch forman. He was well aware of Ennis's temper as well after so many years im sure. However when he saw the time he has come to depend on, being changed, it just set him off. He makes the natural response to Ennis's question. "You got a better idea?" He retorts with "I did once." To me that is pretty straight forward. Ennis really has no good response for that, and then hooks into the thing that has obviously been knocking at the back of his mind..When Jack mentions going to Mexico for the warm weather, he let pass the fact that he "had heard what they got in Mexico for boys like you." Now he is unloading his threats on Jack to keep him back in line..In other words you better not be doing that Jack Twist. I wont stand for it. etc. and then the rest of the scene plays out. And it left the last line he makes, as ambigious at best "I just can't stand this anymore Jack." To me that leaves a possibllity of a change in the status quo. However we will never know.
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