Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > IMDb Remarkable Writings Rewound
What did Ennis mean...'if I should come to know them'-- by plato21
TOoP/Bruce:
Re: What did Ennis mean...'if I should come to know them'
by lcpeters_88 (Wed Mar 22 2006 10:16:08 )
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I agree with the people who think it was jealousy...I started crying when Ennis said this, and I was thinking, "Just tell him you love him, damn it!" They never told each other that they were in love, but it was so obvious. I think Jake was really great in this movie...the way he looked at Ennis was so amazing, like he was really in love with him. I don't think he's gay, I just think it's wonderful acting.
I prefer a man who lives and gives expensive jewels...
Re: What did Ennis mean...'if I should come to know them'
by ladycricket (Wed Mar 22 2006 11:22:53 )
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UPDATED Wed Mar 22 2006 11:24:47
I think the scene is open to interpretation. You don't have to believe anything anyone else tells you, it's how you respond to it. I read the book before I saw the film (as did most) and the distinct impression I got from the book in the lead up to the dialogue was that it was jealousy on the part of Ennis, pure and simple. But that was just me, other people might have a different take. But when Jack talks about Ennis keeping him on a 'short leash' it's obvious to me that Ennis is the dominant one in the relationship. After all, the whole thing is based on Ennis' refusal to commit. They do what Ennis wants all the time. He's like the alpha male. So it seems logical that the alpha male is definitely capable of extreme jealousy when that which he keeps on this 'short leash' has been galavanting off without his knowledge.
I think he's dead jealous Jack has been having a fun secret little time without his sayso or his involvement - that Jack is actually capable of making decisions that don't involve him. I just think it has more to do with plain jealousy than the threat of 'outing'. I don't think he'd be processing that deep to begin with. I'd have thought the first base instinct would be jealousy.
Re: What did Ennis mean...'if I should come to know them'
by Front-Ranger (Wed Mar 22 2006 11:56:49 )
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I think Ennis' fear overrules any jealousy he might allow himself to feel. Even though Jack is 1200 miles away, he thinks day and night that word might get out. Road crews, ranch hands and any male gathering there is always a lot of homophobic talk, especially in states like Wyoming. Even the strange way that Ennis phrases this threat shows the edge of his fear. He is too afraid to even admit that he might LEARN of something, he has to say "If I should come to know them." So sad.
Front-Ranger
"There ain't no reins on this one."
Re: What did Ennis mean...'if I should come to know them'
by jshane2002 (Fri Mar 31 2006 21:24:49 )
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bump
Re: What did Ennis mean...'if I should come to know them'
by joyce023 (Fri Apr 7 2006 10:19:52 )
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Re: What did Ennis mean...'if I should come to know them'
by binbinc (Fri Apr 7 2006 11:44:46 )
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Re: What did Ennis mean...'if I should come to know them'
by joyce023 (Thu Apr 13 2006 06:41:30 )
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Re: What did Ennis mean...'if I should come to know them'
by princessbuttercup70 (Thu Apr 13 2006 07:15:21 )
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I have a slightly different take on the meaning of these words. "Could get you killed if I come to know them" may mean if the fact that Jack is having sex with other men and word of this gets around so much that Ennis finds out about it, it means a lot of people know and some others (gay haters) would want to kill him for it. Does anyone else see this as a possible meaning? I just can't see Ennis wanting to kill him, plus he already knows about Mexico at this point and hasn't killed him yeat!
Re: What did Ennis mean...'if I should come to know them'
by bmcneil-1 (Thu Apr 13 2006 07:43:46 )
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some others (gay haters) would want to kill him for it.
princess--do you mean they would want to kill Jack or Ennis?
Re: What did Ennis mean...'if I should come to know them'
by joat69 (Thu Apr 13 2006 07:44:11 )
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My interpitation of what Ennis said is that if he finds out the details that he could kill him. Jack also understands it that way, because he told Ennis that measuring the short lease he keeps on him and he neading something that he can't hardly get "that you want to kill me for".
Re: What did Ennis mean...'if I should come to know them'
by riverviewantique (Fri Apr 14 2006 21:26:42 )
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Ennis could never kill Jack... he was just mad that jack was bit*hing to him because they couldn't hook up again till November and Ennis honostly couldn't. Jack wouldn't accept this because he needed to be with Ennis always, he couldn't get enough of him. Ennis was also scared that Jacks going to other guys could let out their secret and cause them both great harm. Alma had probably told someone about Ennis and Jack. I am sure Alma jr knew when she said to Cassie that her daddy isn't the marrying kind. Aguire may have left it slip too. Those cowboys were tough guys and fist fights were common. When Ennis said Jack could get killed if he came to know them I am sure he ment a fist fight. Ennis could never really harm Jack... look how he broke down afterwards at the lake scene. Ennis really loved Jack but in his world it wouldn't be accepted. Thats the point of the whole movie. Remember Ennis sitting in the meadow far off when they had to leave brokeback? He was sulking because he had to leave the secret world of Jack and Ennis which he loved and go back to the real world of his day (and ours) where all is not accepted. Going back to Alma, knowing that he loved Jack more that her,but getting married was the statue quo.
Re: What did Ennis mean...'if I should come to know them'
by joyce023 (Thu Apr 27 2006 11:35:16 )
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bump
bump (nm)
by DryToast (Thu Apr 27 2006 21:49:38 )
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"And that's for not calling the liquor store!"
Re: bump (nm)
by pockethankie (Fri Apr 28 2006 01:21:36 )
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There are no pacts between lions and men
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by joyce023 (Sun May 21 2006 10:15:52 )
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Re: What did Ennis mean...'if I should come to know them'
by joat69 (Sat Aug 26 2006 06:49:02 )
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Re: What did Ennis mean...'if I should come to know them'
by CowboysInLove (Fri Sep 8 2006 22:48:20 )
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Re: What did Ennis mean...'if I should come to know them'
by jackie-77 (Thu Nov 23 2006 23:03:47 )
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maybe I should say 'Spoiler'
by Dancing_Bear (Fri Nov 24 2006 00:29:07 )
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UPDATED Thu Nov 30 2006 08:11:19
When Ennis accuses Jack of shenanigans with other men I think it was insecure jealousy too, but now after you guys pointed all these things out, it brings to mind something romantic I hadn't thought of before. Ennis knows Jack went to Mexico (and he probably heard tell about 'Mexico' in a derisive manner from other ranch hands over the years, just speaking their mind) and fears Jack might find another guy to replace him. The sincere statement Jack makes "I wish I knew how to quit you!" practically brings Ennis to his knees with tears and emotional lashing out, obviously he fears losing his relationship with Jack. When he visits Lightning Flat and Jack's father starts making those nasty statements about how Jack had lately started talking about another fellow he was going to bring into the family milieu to 'help out' (like jibing for a jealous reaction from Ennis), Ennis looks up, all alert. Ennis knows Jack has been with other guys, and I think he probably wonders at that point if he indeed may have been outed. But then he goes up to Jack's spartan bedroom and finds no evidence of any other men in Jack's life. He finds the shirts tucked all the way in the back of the closet. So it's a reaffirmation that he was really the only guy that Jack truly loved. As for any 'internalized homophobia', REVISING THIS PART OF MY POST: after reading ClancyPants posts I think Clancy was right about Ennis tamping down his gay nature all his life and absorbing the the societal veneers that had been layered on during his childhood. I truly did gloss over seeing the little clues from the beginning of the film until the tent scene. (back to original posting)Ennis had a lively sense of self-preservation after seeing dead Earl, much livelier than Jack's. I think he was so shocked by Alma confronting him about the fishing creel because he suddenly knew that she knew his secret and that if she blabbed she could get him killed. He knows he isn't on the best terms with her and it scares the bejesus out of him. Anyway, even though he tells Jack he would kill him he would never do it. He's just thumping his chest and letting Jack know this topic is too painful for him to know the details. Maybe I'm just naive but I think if he had internalized homophobia, he would have marched out of the tent after Jack came on to him that first time, grabbed a big rock and smashed Jack's face. Jack somehow knew though, that he wasn't in that danger zone with Ennis. Which brings me to a question, was Ennis still intoxicated when Jack makes his play for him in the tent?
(by the way, I still haven't read all the posts on this board so if I'm just rehashing, sorry!)
Re: maybe I should say 'Spoiler'
by Dancing_Bear (Fri Nov 24 2006 02:08:11 )
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Arrgh, self-correction here.... I don't think that cowboy toy was something that Ennis whittled and Jack swiped, otherwise Ennis would have taken it home along with the shirts.
It's not. It's a toy from Jack's childhood.
by toycoon (Sat Nov 25 2006 16:50:19 )
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UPDATED Sat Nov 25 2006 18:59:08
I must say I'm vicariously enjoying your energy, Dancing Bear.
I've read your other posts and it's fun to feel the excitement in them.
Fast or slow, I just like the direction you're goin'.
Re: It's not. It's a toy from Jack's childhood.
by Dancing_Bear (Sat Nov 25 2006 17:36:54 )
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Oh thank you, I've really enjoyed your insightful posts too, everybody's in fact. I've learned so much about what things to look for in the movie from everyone's contributions, now I'm considering hooking up my tv (13", darn) to a stereo receiver and more powerful speakers so I can really crank up the volume and hear all those faint phrases you guys say you can hear Ennis whispering to Jack, such as "Later..." and "C'mere!". I see the subtitles but I don't always hear so well and I haven't caught those yet. I've been a huge fan of Heath Ledger for awhile now (I always find his performance so genuine and incredible, no matter what the movie itself turns out to be) and I only first saw Brokeback last week... I think I was afraid to see it because I heard it was grim. But no words can really describe the feelings you come away with after seeing this film, and it has taken hold of me much as it has with the people on this board! :o)
Re: What did Ennis mean...'if I should come to know them'
by mutton-5 (Sat Nov 25 2006 17:41:05 )
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poor ennis, living 2 lives, the one life faithful and true to his love for jack. his quick temper, you know. he threatens jack, if he comes to find it were true about other men in jack's life.
Re: What did Ennis mean...'if I should come to know them'
by Dancing_Bear (Sat Nov 25 2006 21:36:13 )
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Er, in my wordy exposition above I said "Jack sincerely says "I wish I knew how to quit you!" - but no, I am actually convinced it was INSINCERE, he was only saying that to get some kind of reaction from Ennis, some affirmation of love, which he badly needed. When he complains that seeing Ennis is like trying to see the Pope, that's a plain cry for reassurance that Ennis still cares as much for him as ever. By this time Ennis is well and truly paranoid, he has already been wondering if Alma ever blabbed, and he is supersensitive to any hint from the people around him that there's any question about his sexual preferences. So it may well be that it's much much harder for Jack to get together with him these last few years of their relationship, and it may have been many a time Ennis has put him off because of having to make money to pay the childcare payments.
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