Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list - by monimm18

[TOoP/Bruce]

Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list - revised version
by - monimm18 5 days ago (Fri May 5 2006 19:17:37 )   

UPDATED Tue May 9 2006 17:22:28
I've been on this posting board since December (hey now, don't start...) and I've read all kind of threads attempting to dissect, interpret and analyze every aspect, character, frame, idea presented, suggested, symbolized, implied (or not) in this film. Some posters came up with incredibly profound thoughts, some brought a lot of humor to this board and in our devastated hearts (the "Jack f'n Twist appreciation thread" was a total hoot, and the "Things you won't hear in BBM" thread contained gems of wit, IMO), and some had some really interesting ideas about this film and its characters...

So, I decided to make a list of what would be considered really off the wall interpretations of this film posted on this board.

Many of you have added your findings on this subject. They are so funny, I thought I should get them all together, so I edited the OP to include them.

So far, with your help, I've got the following:

1. Bobby is LD Newsome's son

Jerry Springer, eat your heart out, Ang Lee can beat you any time. Oh, I forgot, Polansky already did this one in Chinatown... I can imagine Lureen going: "He's my son... my brother... my son... my brother..."

2. Jack had a thing with Joe Aguirre the summer before he met Ennis

I guess "Twist, you guys wasn't gettin' paid to let the dogs baby-sit the sheep while you stemmed the rose" was code language for "Jack, you broke my heart, you seduced and abandoned me, you dawg..."

3. Lureen had Jack killed
4. L.D. Newsome had Jack killed
5. Lureen and her dad had Jack killed

That Lureen... First incest, now murder. Damn, Greek tragedy doesn't have s#!+ on dramas like this. Aeschylus, eat your heart out; get in line, after Jerry Springer.

6. Jack commited suicide

By hitting himself over the face with a tire rim... Or, maybe with a tire iron? Or was it really the tire rim? No, it was...

7. Jack's mom slipped his ashes into the bag with the shirts.

And a note telling him they were really the dog's ashes, Jack was waiting for him behind the barn, with a can of BetterMost beans and two spoons... Because - now we're geting to the doozie:

8. Jack didn't really die - he just set up his murder (as an accident. No, as a murder. No...) to free himself from Lureen and be with Ennis.

Oh, maaan... Too bad he forgot to let Ennis know he's actually alive. Romeo and Juliet revisited. With a Twist, hehehe...

9. Alma wanted Jack to come in for coffee so she could poison him.

Like I said in a post below, this film is getting better and better. Hell, now both wives are murderous characters and whadayaknow? They both plan to kill Jack dead...

10. Lureen is a lesbian.

Sure, and her momma's a drag queen.

11. Jack is a sexual predator who turned Ennis gay

'Cause all it takes is some whiskey and a poke...

12. John Twist is gay.

Right... So was Ennis' dad. Deep, deep, deeeeeeep down. So deep that it would take a human China Syndrome to get to their gay side.

13. Ennis and Alma were in an arranged marriage.

And if Ennis went back on his word because he loved Jack, the matchmaker would have sued him for misrepresentation and psychological distress, and his family would've disowned him.

14. Jack was murdered, the evidence being the blood on the shirts at the end.

Holy crap. The "Jack was murdered" is one thing. The "the evidence being the blood on the shirts"... can I say "monument of illogic"?

15. Ennis was a jerk

I read this a long time ago, but I forgot about it. Hell, the poster who came up with this conclusion could follow a briliant career in counseling... or training dogs.



That's all, so far. Did anybody read any other great interpretations like these? By all means, indulge us.



"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."
Oscar Wilde

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - toycoon 5 days ago (Fri May 5 2006 21:44:52 )   

Your're killing me, monimm18 !
Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - lauragigs 5 days ago (Fri May 5 2006 21:49:42 )   

Surely I'll think of more to add to your great list, but all I can remember offhand is:

9. Alma wanted Jack to come in for coffee so she could poison him.

10. Lureen is a lesbian.

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - monimm18 4 days ago (Sat May 6 2006 21:51:56 )   

9. Alma wanted Jack to come in for coffee so she could poison him.

OMG!!! BOTH wives are murderous characters and BOTH plot to kill poor Jack. This film is getting better and better...

10. Lureen is a lesbian.

A-HA! I KNEW she had the hots for LaShawn - nobody can resist such logorrhea. That LaShawn must have talked until Lureen turned lesbian...



"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."
Oscar Wilde

[TOoP/Bruce]

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - j01560403 5 days ago (Fri May 5 2006 21:52:21 )   

Thanks for the great post monimm18! what a hoot! I've only been here three weeks, so I can't add anything...

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - naun 5 days ago (Sat May 6 2006 03:17:45 )   

1. Bobby is LD Newsome's son

That one's a doozy, and it's still going strong. Maybe Ang Lee wasn't the right director for this movie after all -- it should have been Oliver Stone.

The only addition to your list I can think of is:

11. Jack is a sexual predator who turned Ennis gay.

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - taj_e 5 days ago (Sat May 6 2006 04:45:41 )   

UPDATED Sat May 6 2006 04:50:25
**1. Bobby is LD Newsome's son**
I was having this thought for a moment as one of the possibilities. Simply because the timeline mentioned and the fact that there's no one to 'blame'
But of course it was shoved off

How about,
12. John Twist is gay (the way it was argued was pretty much rational POV)
13. Ennis sacrificed his happiness with Jack for Alma Jr. sake

'I wish I knew how to quit BBM...'

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - austin_mom 4 days ago (Sat May 6 2006 19:28:57 )   

Ah yes

"13. Ennis sacrificed his happiness with Jack for Alma Jr. sake"

AKA the "Father-Knows-Best" thread.

If you guys haven't checked out this thread, it's really quite entertaining.

I think the real name of the thread is "the key to the movie is the final trailer scene" or something like that.

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - monimm18 4 days ago (Sat May 6 2006 19:05:14 )   

Jack is a sexual predator who turned Ennis gay.

LMAO! naun, thanks for the addidtion, it's definitely a worthy one.

Maybe Ang Lee wasn't the right director for this movie after all -- it should have been Oliver Stone.

Good one.

LOL, about Bobby, I can imagne Lureen going: "He's my son... my brother... my son... my brother..."


"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."
Oscar Wilde

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - littlewing1957 4 days ago (Sat May 6 2006 18:46:58 )   

I think I remember one that goes:

Mrs. Twist found Jack and Ennis' shirts, couldn't get around to cleaning them so she hung them together in Jack's closet until she could wash them. She hung them together so she would have them both handy! However, she forgot they were there and Ennis found them before she could wash and iron them, LOL!

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - norwegianwood_4000 4 days ago (Sat May 6 2006 20:57:18 )

lol monimm18 what a hoot!

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - BocaGarrett 4 days ago (Sat May 6 2006 22:16:59 )   

You didn't mention one of the most ridiculous ones

Ennis was the one who had Jack killed because he was jealous
Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - monimm18 4 days ago (Sat May 6 2006 22:46:13 )   
Ignore this User | Report Abuse   
Ennis was the one who had Jack killed because he was jealous

OMG, this one is really off the charts. BocaGarrett, I think you've turned in the jewel of the crown.

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."
Oscar Wilde

[TOoP/Bruce]

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - BocaGarrett 4 days ago (Sat May 6 2006 23:26:59 )   

It's really dumb speculation but I've heard it on many different sites from a lot of BBM viewers. The story goes that Ennis made good on his threat that he made to Jack the last time they met. You know, when he says "Some of them things could get you killed if I should come to know them" meaning Jack's infidelities. They say he investigated, found out Jack was cheating on him and ordered a "hit" on him. He's only pretending to be mournful about Jack's death at the end. They even say that the "Jack, I Swear" line means that he's telling Jack that he swore he would kill him and he followed through on his promise. It's ridiculous but there you are.

It would change the whole meaning of the film(not to mention the short story it's based on). You thought Ang Lee made a beautiful but very sad love story, when he really made a thriller about a psycho named Ennis Del Mar who has his lover killed to keep him from seeing other men.

How anybody could take any of this seriously I don't know, but there are some very strange people in this world.

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - crissttigaldames 4 days ago (Sat May 6 2006 23:33:39 )   

That's really such an absurd interpretation. Not only would be completely out of character, but the postcard through which Ennis finds out about Jack's death, is a proof that is an absurd thing.

It is sad that some people can make such a negative interpretation.

Suring the lake scene, I actually feard that Ennis would kill him, right there (there are, after all, so many films that make the characters make something just completely out of character), and was really relieved that he didn't. But later, that thought didn't go through my mind.

"The Love you take is equal to the Love you make" The Beatles.

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - ailuro 3 days ago (Mon May 8 2006 02:40:47 )   

Ennis had Jack killed! That one really got to me.
But actually on my first viewing, as Ennis is riding along that rocky slope after the first tent scene, that shot & the music had me thinking violence is emminent. The overall mood of that & Ennis' reaction to Jack that morning only fueled that feeling.
And then he comes upon Jack sitting on the ridge & he's holding the rifle, geez I nearly lost it.
All this after I had read the synopsis on several sites & knew this to be a love story.
Always expecting the worst!


" This is not a psychotic episode. This is a cleansing moment of clarity. " Network

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - crissttigaldames 2 days ago (Mon May 8 2006 14:14:37 )

Well, there are so many films in which the gay characters are crazy or something and they kill someone, that is normal that one would fear that that would happen in this film. But as this one is far better, it didn't make their charcters make something like that.

"The Love you take is equal to the Love you make" The Beatles.

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - lauragigs 2 days ago (Mon May 8 2006 14:19:09 )   

Another outlandish conclusion:

14. Ennis and Alma were in an arranged marriage.

(C'mon, this was 1963, not 963!)

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - kaching 2 days ago (Mon May 8 2006 17:26:09 )   

15. Jack was killed by a 'sploding tire.

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - BannerHill 2 days ago (Mon May 8 2006 20:14:09 )   

I think one of the more outlandish theories is that Jack's mother concealed Jack's ashes in the bag with the shirts.

Couldn't quite wrap my mind around that one.

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - posworth6 2 days ago (Tue May 9 2006 08:55:32 )   

Jack faked his death to be with Ennis, but was wooed by Randall (who arrived with Jack's favourite chocolates and whiskey) at the last minute. Jack did try and resist, but when he saw those chocolates and thought of those damn beans on the mountain...well, it had to be Randall.

*step* *step* *step* *step* *hat off* *KISS!*
- Brokeback Mountain

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - catglith 1 day ago (Tue May 9 2006 15:05:57 )   

posworth6, i love your signiture!

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - the_protector 1 day ago (Tue May 9 2006 15:10:50 )   

"posworth6, i love your signiture! "

Aggh you beat me!
Love it, too!

If you feel embarrassed, I'll be your pride.
If you need direction, I'll be your guide.

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - undercarriage 4 hours ago (Thu May 11 2006 07:15:37 )   

Jack WAS killed by an exploding tyre (an accident)
The murder is in Ennis's mind.

Exploding tyres do kill/maim people if they are faulty and too much air is pumped into them. It is unusual but not unheard of.

http://meanderingtrevor.blogspot.com

[TOoP/Bruce]

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - NewHorizons37 1 day ago (Tue May 9 2006 13:18:00 )   

This one is not really in the same league as what has already been posted, but

16. Jack was murdered, evidence being the blood on the shirts at the end.

Seriously, that was what my friend thought. Once I reminded him about the fight when they left Brokeback, and Ennis saying he couldn't believe he left his shirt up there, he got it.

That was the one and only time I watched with movie with someone.


Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - monimm18 1 day ago (Tue May 9 2006 15:03:06 )   

Hee-hee, NewHorizons, don't you just love it when you see a great film with someone who takes everything literally and cannot get from A to C because B was not clearly specified, drawn and reinforced?

IMO, what makes it disappointing is not someone's incapacity of comprehending the film, but the realization that I was wrong to think I could share it with them.


"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."
Oscar Wilde

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - kthstewart 1 day ago (Tue May 9 2006 15:40:18 )   

I loved the thread monimm18. It gave me a few good good laughs. I think the one that caused me to laugh the hardest was the one in which Jack faked his own death in conjunction with Alma Jr. and Kurt to get away from Lureen and Randall and went to Alma Jr's wedding with Ennis.

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list, huh?   
by - Teabiscuit 1 day ago (Tue May 9 2006 15:52:05 )   

NewHorizons, you are not alone - i also know someone who thought the blood was from jack's murder.





(but then again, i know someone who has never seen the film, and thought it was about a father and son .... ?!?!?!)

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list - revised version   
by - jshane2002 1 day ago (Tue May 9 2006 23:21:57 )   

UPDATED Tue May 9 2006 23:23:22
The funny thing is, if this story had been filmed by the wrong Hollywood director, some of these outlandish theories would have been written into the script just to sensationalize the story and make pick the slow pacing.

Someone wrote a humorous "hollywood" version of Christ's crucifiction that revised the story to take place in Egypt because having Jesus face a Pharouh before being condemned to die would be more dramatic. The night before the crucifixion Jesus would pray in the Garden of Eden instead of Gethsemane because "Eden" would be easier to pronounce.

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list - revised version   
by - monimm18 14 hours ago (Wed May 10 2006 21:24:37 )   

The funny thing is, if this story had been filmed by the wrong Hollywood director, some of these outlandish theories would have been written into the script just to sensationalize the story and make pick the slow pacing.

LOL, I think you're right, with one correction, if I may: it would have had to be different screenwriters too - I don't see Ossana and McMurtry giving in to sensationalism and commercialism. James Schamus, hmmm, he might have been persuaded - he did write that part where Ennis and Jack heroically save some hippies from some evil bikers, which, thankfully, was left out.

Seriously, though, I thank the stars that Ang Lee took over this film. I cannot imagine any director that could have made a better one. The only ones I think might have had a chance, are dead.


"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."
Oscar Wilde

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list - revised version   
by - bjblakeslee 1 hour ago (Thu May 11 2006 09:43:46 )   

16. John Twist killed his own son with a tire iron. (Jack, I swear... I just read it in another thread...)

Shoot as fast as lightnin' but it loads a mite slow...

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list - revised version   
by - NewHorizons37 1 hour ago (Thu May 11 2006 09:45:39 )   

UPDATED Thu May 11 2006 09:53:02
16. John Twist killed his own son with a tire iron.

Of course he did -- he was angry that Jack thought he was too goddam special to be buried in the family plot. Solution: kill Jack and make him go in the family plot.

(This is sarcasm, lest anybody make an outlandish interpretation of this post.)   
      
Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list - revised version   
by - zyna_kat 1 hour ago (Thu May 11 2006 09:54:23 )   

1. Bobby is LD Newsome's son

Wellllll.... that might be ok, since Lureen is most likely not his daughter. (Mrs. Newsome and LD Newsome both have blue eyes, Lureen has brown eyes. So there's no way those two are her parents. Could also be that Mrs. Newsome isn't her mother, or neither was her parent.)

14. Jack was murdered, the evidence being the blood on the shirts at the end.

Heh, good one! Does that mean Ennis was murdered by the movie's end, too? Ooh, that's it! Ennis was sad after finding the bloody shirts because they made him realize he was actually dead. Not only dead, but in H*ll! And he has to spend an eternity away from Jack, who's in heaven.

Crikey. Though, these theories aren't nearly as crazy as the ones I've seen Harry Potter fans come up with.

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list - revised version   
by - clancypants 12 minutes ago (Thu May 11 2006 11:26:02 )   

You said: "Mrs. Newsome and LD Newsome both have blue eyes, Lureen has brown eyes. So there's no way those two are her parents."

Not true. You're going by the now disproved dominant/recessive theory of genetics. Today we know of at least three gene pairs that determine eye color in an individual. Millions of people have eye colors that are not in keeping with the dominant/recessive rule. I know of a family where the parents both have medium brown eyes, one daughter has dark brown, one daughter has blue, one son has deep blue, one son has green. And the parents are biologically the parents of the four kids.

Re: Most outlandish interpretations - let's make a list - revised versio   
by - Frank_Z 2 minutes ago (Thu May 11 2006 11:36:38 )   

Not true. You're going by the now disproved dominant/recessive theory of genetics. Today we know of at least three gene pairs that determine eye color in an individual. Millions of people have eye colors that are not in keeping with the dominant/recessive rule. I know of a family where the parents both have medium brown eyes, one daughter has dark brown, one daughter has blue, one son has deep blue, one son has green. And the parents are biologically the parents of the four kids.


Please link to scientific support for this, such as an article from a credible source. I have never heard of it before (but it has been over 30 years since I was in a biology or genetics class).

It sounds like an interesting development in science. I have personally never witnessed eye-color expression of two blue-eyed humans producing a brown-eyed off-spring.