....'We was good friends'....
by djo-17 1 day ago (Sun Dec 10 2006 01:13:28 )
On my ....th viewing, on Brokeback Mountain Day, there is another thing that jumped out at me, that I can't believe I have never picked up on before.
During the "phone call scene" Ennis tells Lureen: "We was good friends...."
I noticed today, for the first time, that it seems this is the point when Lureen's demeanor, becomes as Annie Proulx describes it "No doubt about it, she was polite but the little voice was cold as snow".
I think that at this point, Lureen KNEW WHO was on the other end of the line. If this was the case, it would appear, that whether Jack died as a result of an accident, as she said, or by being beaten with a tire-iron as Ennis had imagined, she wasn't about to give Ennis, the ONE PERSON who "captured" most of Jack's heart, the satisfaction of knowing the truth, either way.
Of course, this whole scene is so ambiguous, because, Lureen, just before this, seemed even somewhat tearful, as she was talking about Jack, yet still with an over-all coolness about her.
Was it due to some embarrassment about Jack's life style? Did she apparently "come to know" of it? Did she know or suspect about Jack and Ennis's relationship specifically? Or was her apparent coolness the result of repeating the sad story so many times to friends and family?
If anyone has other thoughts on this, please share them. I am interested to hear any and all impressions of this scene. This is such an open-ended scene, and one of many toward the end of the movie.
...."I thought Brokeback Mountain might be around where he grew up. But knowin' Jack, it might be some pretend place where the bluebirds sing and there's a whiskey spring"....
Doug O'Connor
Re: ....'We was good friends'....
by Shasta254 1 day ago (Sun Dec 10 2006 03:51:00 )
UPDATED Sun Dec 10 2006 03:52:22
This is such an open-ended scene...
Isn't that the truth? And I never know how to interpret it! I change my mind about it regularly, Doug. I guess it's partly because I am wishy-washy, and partly because Ang Lee told Anne and Heath to make that scene seem ambiguous, and they nailed it perfectly!!
That's why it's so nice to read other people's opinions about different scenes in the movie--I get a new perspective and it makes me think.
I can never get over how she makes those two kind of squeaky, halting little sighs. She wants to cry, I think, but she throttles her emotions because she wants to appear icy. Maybe she is talking in that monotone, stoic sort of voice to keep from giving in to her emotions. Even though she felt somewhat disdainful toward Jack, she really liked him. She didn't want to break down with her "vanquisher" on the other end of the line, either.
"Gettin' tired of your dumbass missin'!"
Oh Doug, where do I begin?
by toycoon 21 hours ago (Sun Dec 10 2006 08:48:33 )
UPDATED Sun Dec 10 2006 21:04:07
Brokeback Mountain, how do I love thee? Let me count the ways....
This is the only film I have ever seen that continually makes me wonder about every scene and think of questions that haunt me relentlessly. I know that is why I never tire of it. The film is like a multifaceted jewel that one can gaze at and see so many things each time. At times, it reflects the sky and it seems sapphire or sometimes it will look amber like the earth; Maybe it is clear then I can see through it or it can appear cloudy and dark.
If I watch the 'phone call' scene but close my eyes before Ennis' imagination kicks in I start to believe Lureen's side of the story. It has been several months since Jack's death, Lureen has explained the circumstances of his death so many times to so many persons it's almost become mundane to tell the story again.
She describes Brokeback Mountain as a mythical place that Jack has mentioned many, many times and is totally startled when Ennis says it is a REAL location and that the two of them herded sheep on Brokeback, the Summer of '63. I get the impression that she begins to question the circumstances behind Jack's death and concludes that perhaps the rumors about her ex-husband are true, as to why he left her and that maybe it really was a hate crime unlike it was previously explained to her. She just hangs up on Ennis because she is freaked out and simply doesn't know what else to say to him. She's never spoken to him before or never met any of Jack's friends anyway.
I'm not convinced that she knows of the absolute true nature of the men's relationship but she knows it must have been deep for Jack to drive such a great distance to see Ennis year after year.
A friend of mine (who is a personal friend of Heath) told me that Ang Lee directed Heath and Anne as though Lureen knows more than she is letting on BUT she is not about to give Ennis that satisfaction of anything more that polite chatter. After all, Childress, TX. is a tiny town. If someone sneezes on one end of town, someone on the other side will offer them a hankie. Ang Lee didn't give them any other specifics other than that and let them do the scene as it felt to the actors.
Re: Oh Doug, where do I begin?
by Dancing_Bear 19 hours ago (Sun Dec 10 2006 10:26:12 )
I think Lureen definitely loved Jack during their marriage even if she thought he was a tame cat. She's so tickled when he yells at LD at Thanksgiving, he's finally showing some testosterone. She's visibly disgruntled when Jack asks LaShawn to dance and not her, although she's hinted 'husbands don't never seem to want to dance with their wives'. An obvious hint that they don't never want to do anything else with them either, but anyway, during the phone call with Ennis her eyes start glistening and reddening as soon as he mentions what Brokeback was to Jack. You can't miss that spark of caring in his voice as opposed to the flat monotone of hers. I keep wondering if she suddenly realizes that she's speaking to the 'other woman' in their marriage and understands what she's missed during all the years of living together. I also wonder if Jack ever got to the point of saying to her that he was going to divorce her and move to Lightning Flat with a 'buddy'. Since OMT had heard it, wonder if she did.
Re: Oh Doug, where do I begin?
by shortfic 15 hours ago (Sun Dec 10 2006 15:03:44 )
Hathaway was excellent in this scene. When she hears Ennis talk about BBM and how they were "good friends," she finally realizes what BBM meant to Jack all those years and that it was not a pretend place after all. She also realizes who Ennis is and how much he and Jack must have shared over the years.
"Say thank you, Gilbert. Say thank you."
Re: Oh Doug, where do I begin?
by tiffanykk2002 14 hours ago (Sun Dec 10 2006 16:08:00 )
Lureen's eyes tear up right when he mentions that Brokeback is a place where they spent one summer together.
I had to look at it from her perspective. If I was the wife of a man who had just died, to know that he would rather spread his ashes over a mountain where he and his buddy hung out once instead of leaving them with me, I'd be hurt.
I mean what did he leave her with? As far as possessions are concerned.
She did at some point ask Jack why his friend wouldn't come fish in Texas. For Jack's death wish of all things to be that his ashes are scattered over some mountain that Ennis knows about and not her, means that there is an important part of him that 1) She never saw, or was deliberately left out of and 2) A place that throughout most of his life with her, wished he could have been instead.
I don't think that she ever had enough information, or paid close enough attention to notice how miserable Jack was, and the nature of he and Ennis' relationship. I do think that she was a disturbed by the fact that his death wish incinuated an important piece of his life that she and their son were not a part of. In fact, that's the only inkling of real emotion we ever see from Lureen who seemed so indifferent otherwise. Perhaps at that point she finally realized how empty their marriage had been over those years.
Re: ....'We was good friends'....
by retropian 9 hours ago (Sun Dec 10 2006 20:30:54 )
I think in that scene Ennis comes out to her. He acknowledges to another "we was good friends". She realizes Ennis and Jack had been seeing each other before she ever entered Jacks life. She realises who was Jacks true love and it wasn't her. Ennis is confirming what she may have been in denial about. It gives a little credence to the idea that Jack was the victim of a gay bashing. She may be recanting a rote story the umpteeth time, one that was invented to hide the true circumstance of Jack's death. But then again, we're not ever truely supposed to know, Even Annie Proulx said she's not sure herself.
Re: ....'We was good friends'....
by bc_ashley 45 minutes ago (Mon Dec 11 2006 05:23:30 )
I guess Annie proulx is more inclined towards the "murder" version since in the story there's a line" Now he knew it had been the tire iron." And it's more likely that Lureen knew the truth and was hiding it.
Re: ....'We was good friends'....
by redhowe 4 minutes ago (Mon Dec 11 2006 06:05:09 )
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> I think in that scene Ennis comes out to her.
I totally agree. This is not a simple film, and what is 'said' is often masked in different words to the ones we would usually use. To me that actually gives these words more of a genuineness than the old stereotyped phrases like 'I love you'. The fact that Ennis and Jack don't say 'I love you' to each other doesn't mean they don't - it just means they express that love in different words and actions from those overused three little words. We, as an audience, just have to work a little harder to discern how the characters are feeling - just as we do in real life.
In the same way, at the end of the movie Ennis does not suddenly declare to the world 'I'm gay'. But he does in his own way make this fact understood. He comes out - not just to Lureen but also to Jack's parents. All three of them make it perfectly clear that they understand what he's saying. Finally Ennis is prepared to be who he really is, whatever the consequences.
