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If you were Alma............
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote ---You know, I've never thought that line made total sense. "Looks like I got the message" -- and yet it's Cassie who has taken action and is dating someone else.
--- End quote ---
Hey, Katherine, I'm not sure I see why that line doesn't make sense to you. Cassie has just told Ennis that she's left all these messages for him--which he's plainly ignored--and now he sees her with another guy. That's the message--she's dating someone else. It does seem to be an example of Ennis blaming someone else for his own actions, or inactions, as the case may be.
I'm beginning to realize I've never really paid enough attention to this scene--in particular, the implication that Ennis has been ignoring Cassie after his confrontation with Jack. Next time I make/find the time to watch the DVD, I really need to study Heath's face before Cassie runs out and Carl follows her. The stage directions in the screenplay read as follows:
[Cassie] Starts crying as she rushes off to CARL, who waits by the door. CARL looks back at ENNIS; ENNIS shoots CARL a murderous look.
Hunh? Does he? And why? It's just been made abundantly clear that he doesn't want Cassie, so why should he resent Carl?
Anyway, I think the most spectacular example of Ennis blaming someone else for his own shortcomings is in the confrontation with Jack:
"It's because of you, Jack, that I'm like this. I'm nothin'. I'm nowhere."
Well, excuse me, but Ennis has made life choices. He has chosen to stick to low-paying work that he can quit at short notice to go off with Jack, but it's terribly unfair to blame that on Jack.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on May 13, 2006, 09:28:26 am ---One more thing in regard to an earlier question. I do think it's the "Jack Nasty" remark that really sets Ennis off -- his face changes and becomes much more enraged at that very moment. However, it's impossible to tell whether it's because of the insult or because of the implications or both.
--- End quote ---
Agree Kat. Ennis is upset, but he's keeping his temper and keeping to his lame cover story. He only explodes when Alma bad-mouths Jack. It's as if Alma is blaming Jack. He's the nasty one. And Ennis doesn't take kindly to people bad mouthing those he cares about, even Alma ("Now you shut up about Alma, this ain't her fault.").
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on May 13, 2006, 10:43:54 am ---Hey, Katherine, I'm not sure I see why that line doesn't make sense to you. Cassie has just told Ennis that she's left all these messages for him--which he's plainly ignored--and now he sees her with another guy. That's the message--she's dating someone else. It does seem to be an example of Ennis blaming someone else for his own actions, or inactions, as the case may be.
I'm beginning to realize I've never really paid enough attention to this scene--in particular, the implication that Ennis has been ignoring Cassie after his confrontation with Jack. Next time I make/find the time to watch the DVD, I really need to study Heath's face before Cassie runs out and Carl follows her. The stage directions in the screenplay read as follows:
[Cassie] Starts crying as she rushes off to CARL, who waits by the door. CARL looks back at ENNIS; ENNIS shoots CARL a murderous look.
Hunh? Does he? And why? It's just been made abundantly clear that he doesn't want Cassie, so why should he resent Carl?
Anyway, I think the most spectacular example of Ennis blaming someone else for his own shortcomings is in the confrontation with Jack:
"It's because of you, Jack, that I'm like this. I'm nothin'. I'm nowhere."
Well, excuse me, but Ennis has made life choices. He has chosen to stick to low-paying work that he can quit at short notice to go off with Jack, but it's terribly unfair to blame that on Jack.
--- End quote ---
Jeff, in answer to your first question, the line seems to stop one step short of logical -- he got the message, she took the action. What he should say is "Looks like I got the message and that, in return, you got my message (which was implied by my lack of reponse) (and so are now dating Carl)." But that would be kind of an awkward line, I guess.
I've recently come to realize that the Cassie scene is big. NOT because Ennis shoots Carl a murderous glance. He doesn't. What he does do, right after she says "Girls don't fall in love with fun," is suddenly look up, stop chewing pie and stare into space for several long moments, as though deep in thought. During that time Cassie flees, which he pays little attention to. He's indifferent to Carl; he only said that because, as you said, he was lashing out angrily to deflect blame, as he is prone to do. My interpretation that upon hearing the word "love" he realizes something.
Speaking of which, you're right that the lake scene line is a classic example. He undoubtedly knows he is more to blame for the unsatisfactory situation. But Ennis' lines are much better this way than if he admitted his guilt. Especially following "Why don't you then? Why don't you just let me be?" the implication is that even though Ennis knows they're both miserable and that it's his fault, he is helpless to take any action himself, either to live with Jack (which he's made clear he won't do) OR to break things off, which he can't do because he loves Jack. Though, I now suspect, he may not have thought of it as love before hearing Cassie use the word. So you may have been right about that.
Jeff, just as you encouraged me to buy StS, I would encourage you to take 134 minutes and watch the DVD. I hadn't watched it myself since it was in theaters, so about two months, until last week, when I rented it and watched it twice. I knew all the lines, but found I had remembered a lot of the visual stuff -- especially facial expressions -- differently. Also, I felt more observant, more aware of details and subtexts, after all this time discussing.
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on May 13, 2006, 06:59:09 pm ---Jeff, in answer to your first question, the line seems to stop one step short of logical -- he got the message, she took the action. What he should say is "Looks like I got the message and that, in return, you got my message (which was implied by my lack of reponse) (and so are now dating Carl)." But that would be kind of an awkward line, I guess.
--- End quote ---
Thanks. Wouldn't that also imply that Ennis was consciously sending Cassie a message? Oh, sure enough, he was sending her one by not responding to her messages, but was this a conscious plan of action? I'm not sure. I'm not defending him here. I've just seen guys do this sort of thing--lie to themselves that they're procrastinating when they really just don't have the balls to break up with someone.
--- Quote ---I've recently come to realize that the Cassie scene is big. NOT because Ennis shoots Carl a murderous glance. He doesn't. What he does do, right after she says "Girls don't fall in love with fun," is suddenly look up, stop chewing pie and stare into space for several long moments, as though deep in thought. During that time Cassie flees, which he pays little attention to. He's indifferent to Carl; he only said that because, as you said, he was lashing out angrily to deflect blame, as he is prone to do. My interpretation that upon hearing the word "love" he realizes something.
--- End quote ---
I'm coming to realize that, too. Heretofore, when I've thought of it all, I just regarded is as a necessary wrapping up of the Cassie subplot. But there's clearly more than just that going on here.
--- Quote ---Speaking of which, you're right that the lake scene line is a classic example. He undoubtedly knows he is more to blame for the unsatisfactory situation. But Ennis' lines are much better this way than if he admitted his guilt. Especially following "Why don't you then? Why don't you just let me be?" the implication is that even though Ennis knows they're both miserable and that it's his fault, he is helpless to take any action himself, either to live with Jack (which he's made clear he won't do) OR to break things off, which he can't do because he loves Jack. Though, I now suspect, he may not have thought of it as love before hearing Cassie use the word. So you may have been right about that.
Jeff, just as you encouraged me to buy StS, I would encourage you to take 134 minutes and watch the DVD. I hadn't watched it myself since it was in theaters, so about two months, until last week, when I rented it and watched it twice. I knew all the lines, but found I had remembered a lot of the visual stuff -- especially facial expressions -- differently. Also, I felt more observant, more aware of details and subtexts, after all this time discussing.
--- End quote ---
Oh, not to worry, I have the DVD. I bought it on the release day, and I did my gay civic duty and paid more than I would have had to pay elsewhere by buying it at our local independent GLBT bookstore. And I made a real, if private, event out of watching it for the first time. I just haven't been able to make myself a block of two and a half hours to watch it again since (I hate watching movies on video in "chunks"). I could be watching it now, but here I am. ...
TJ:
--- Quote from: kirkmusic on May 13, 2006, 04:16:51 am ---"Once burned" is only one example of Ennis trying to blame somebody else for his shortcomings. He does it in the coffee shop scene with Cassie. "Looks like I got the message, in any case." I think there was one more example somewhere but I can't recall at the moment. It's something he needs to work on if he doesn't want people reading him the riot act now and then as a result.
--- End quote ---
I would ask why the screenplay writers even had to create that scene in the first place. They took one sentence found in the original story and made several chapters out of it.
And they did the same thing with Jack, too, in regard creating a chapter dedicated to another woman, whom they named LaShawn.
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