Our BetterMost Community > Chez Tremblay
Am I the only person...
vkm91941:
--- Quote from: TJ on May 08, 2006, 12:37:24 am ---
But, I have found on the internet in various forum boards (not so much in this one) and in Yahoo discussion groups related to BbM that some women who are admittedly exclusively heterosexual in their sexual orientation think they know everything that there is to know about men who are exclusively homosexual in their sexual orientation. They even think they know gays better than gays know themselves.
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That would be a very foolish assertion to make at least and a gross over generalization at worst. Anyone, male or female, gay or straight, cannot accurately claim to know the heart, mind or life experiences of another individual regardless of orientation. I am sorry TJ that some woman or women somewhere made emphatic sweeping statements that upset you.
ednbarby:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on May 07, 2006, 08:31:16 pm ---Oh, I know the gist of the argument. I remember it plenty from imdb. It's silly, and it ignores any number of clues in the movie.
But Lureen wasn't really dedicated to Jack? Hunh? Or am I not getting your meaning?
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Ya know, on second thought, you're right, Katherine. I do think Lureen loved Jack. Very much, in fact. No, she didn't completely know him. But she went after him after just one look - she wanted him and knew, or so she thought, how to get him. She never understood why he couldn't love her completely because, again, she didn't know him completely. She became embittered because of the lack of knowledge - my husband is drifting away from me, and I don't know why. Is there someone else? Or is it just me? That's harder in a way than not knowing, I think. And I think on second thought that to call her self-serving and incapable of loving him is harsh. You can clearly hear the grief in her voice when she's telling Ennis what happened. Yes, the little voice is as cold as ice, but it cracks a little on "He was only 39 years old" and on telling Ennis how he should get up to see his folks in Lightning Flat. Only a woman who truly loved her husband would be that charitable to the man she realizes was the love of his life and the reason she could never have his heart. I don't think Alma would have done the same if the shoe were on the other foot. I know that's a stretch and maybe harsh, but I think she was more bitter than Lureen only because she knew about the two of them for a lot longer and had a lot of time to stew over it.
ednbarby:
--- Quote from: TJ on May 07, 2006, 08:39:07 pm ---The homophobic so-called "Christian" fundamentalist religious right believe that no "one is really gay/homosexual;" they believe that they are rebelling agains the way God created them to be naturally. Those ignorant people go so far to say that homosexuality does not occur in nature and only human beings have homosexual sex.
They also believe that there are only two genders, male and female, too, not only in the animal kingdom, in humans, too. Because they literally believe the part of the Bible where it says when God created man, he created them male and female.
Those people have never even lived on a farm. I have seen young bulls who more interested in each other sexually than a heifer who was ready to be bred when I was on the farm.
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Yes. This is precisely what I mean. And it's generally the fundamentalists who make this argument. It cuts me to the bone every time because I know this is what they're getting at, and it's just so monumentally wrong.
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: ednbarby on May 08, 2006, 09:09:53 am ---Ya know, on second thought, you're right, Katherine. I do think Lureen loved Jack. Very much, in fact. No, she didn't completely know him. But she went after him after just one look - she wanted him and knew, or so she thought, how to get him. She never understood why he couldn't love her completely because, again, she didn't know him completely. She became embittered because of the lack of knowledge - my husband is drifting away from me, and I don't know why. Is there someone else? Or is it just me? That's harder in a way than not knowing, I think. And I think on second thought that to call her self-serving and incapable of loving him is harsh. You can clearly hear the grief in her voice when she's telling Ennis what happened. Yes, the little voice is as cold as ice, but it cracks a little on "He was only 39 years old" and on telling Ennis how he should get up to see his folks in Lightning Flat. Only a woman who truly loved her husband would be that charitable to the man she realizes was the love of his life and the reason she could never have his heart. I don't think Alma would have done the same if the shoe were on the other foot. I know that's a stretch and maybe harsh, but I think she was more bitter than Lureen only because she knew about the two of them for a lot longer and had a lot of time to stew over it.
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Barb,
That's a nice and very perceptive analysis of Lureen. My compliments! I think she does come off rather better in the film than she does in the AP original. I'm thinking specifically here of the story's final fishing trip, where Jack complains so bitterly about his wife's refusal to recognize that their son apparently has a learning disability. But it is too harsh to call her incapable of loving Jack.
Anyway, rather than have a specific beef about people making assumptions about the film, I have a deep disappointment in the response of one particular individual. He's an old classmate from graduate school, an expatriot who has been living in London for years, and also gay. I had an e-mail from him a couple of weeks ago in which he dismissed the film as "much ado about nothing" because "nothing much happens." I've been so dumbstruck by the lack of sensitivity on the part of an old friend and fellow gay man that I haven't been able to respond to his e-mail.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: ednbarby on May 08, 2006, 09:09:53 am ---Yes, the little voice is as cold as ice, but it cracks a little on "He was only 39 years old" and on telling Ennis how he should get up to see his folks in Lightning Flat. Only a woman who truly loved her husband would be that charitable to the man she realizes was the love of his life and the reason she could never have his heart. I don't think Alma would have done the same if the shoe were on the other foot. I know that's a stretch and maybe harsh, but I think she was more bitter than Lureen only because she knew about the two of them for a lot longer and had a lot of time to stew over it.
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Thanks for agreeing, Barb, and I should probably just appreciate that, but I also have to take issue with "cold as ice." She sounds very rehearsed, and probably isn't thrilled to hear from Ennis, with good reason. But, as you say, her encouraging him to go see Jack's folks is a truly kind thing to do. I think Alma is WAY more bitter than Lureen. But you're right, she also has more to go on.
And Jeff, your post arrived just as I was about to post this. That is a disturbing experience. What if you wrote back and said, in effect, "HUNH???" and then briefly summarized what you think DOES happen. I don't have any friends who have dismissed the film (mainly because most of my friends have inexplicably not seen it, at least last time I checked). However, I have two or three friends who liked it but only mildly. So I pointed out as many of the amazing things about it as I reasonably could in a short conversation and in each case, I think, their appreciation was deepened. Some people , even intelligent and sensitive people, just aren't attuned to its subtleties and as a result don't get it.
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