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V for Vendetta
rtprod:
--- Quote from: starboardlight on May 15, 2006, 03:40:57 am ---i never knew this. is he mtf or ftm?
about V, there were some things I liked and some things I didn't like. The Valerie sequence was the highlight of the film. I did like that it was the what gave Evie the strength to find self-actualization. It was beautifully shot, and the juxtaposition between the golden glow of Valerie's story and Evie's dark tortures was gorgeously done. The thing I didn't like was that I couldn't reconcile V's tactic. His "I tortured you because I knew it'd be good for you" is just too close to GW taking away our civil rights because "he knows what good for us".
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Hi Starboard,
Except the critical difference is that V is mobilizing Evie and the populus against George Bush, isn't he?
Oh, and Larry Wachowski is male to female trans, or in the process.
rt
starboardlight:
--- Quote from: rtprod on May 15, 2006, 11:49:58 am ---Hi Starboard,
Except the critical difference is that V is mobilizing Evie and the populus against George Bush, isn't he?
Oh, and Larry Wachowski is male to female trans, or in the process.
rt
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the thing is, does the end justifies the means? if GW's cause is justified, does it make it okay for him to take away our rights? He's certainly trying to mobilize us against another fascist evil. What would be the difference? I just have trouble with someone else trying to tell me that they know what's good for me.
We certainly see that Evie, herself, felt betrayed by it. It never became clear to me how she reconciled it. She was crying and angry one moment and then she was simply okay with it. That part didn't resonate with me.
--- Quote from: jura86 on May 15, 2006, 08:29:32 am ---SPOILERS
That's a good point, but I don't think V was supposed to be a conventionally sympathetic protagonist that the audience rooted for - he's a complex character, and what I liked about the film is that it is never clear whether he is really a hero or a villain. V even says at one point in the film "What they did to me was monstrous" and Evey replies "Then they created a monster". I think that's kinda true. The fact that he tortured Evey is definitely evidence of his monstrous side.
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That might be the case. I'm not sure. I did get the feeling that we're suppose to root for V. The film set up the government as being completely evil and that he represents the rage of those people without voices. And in the end, everyone shows up wearing the mask, as if to say that V is all of us. Imo, we're suppose to identify with him.
rtprod:
--- Quote from: starboardlight on May 15, 2006, 02:00:51 pm ---the thing is, does the end justifies the means? if GW's cause is justified, does it make it okay for him to take away our rights? He's certainly trying to mobilize us against another fascist evil. What would be the difference? I just have trouble with someone else trying to tell me that they know what's good for me.
We certainly see that Evie, herself, felt betrayed by it. It never became clear to me how she reconciled it. She was crying and angry one moment and then she was simply okay with it. That part didn't resonate with me.
That might be the case. I'm not sure. I did get the feeling that we're suppose to root for V. The film set up the government as being completely evil and that he represents the rage of those people without voices. And in the end, everyone shows up wearing the mask, as if to say that V is all of us. Imo, we're suppose to identify with him.
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I think in the context of this film it justifies the means, at least as a narrative device to move Evie on to where she needs to get psychologically--free. She comes into her own consciousness and full power during this exercise. I think she felt betrayed by it in the moment only, but understood its significance in her life later which is why she made good to return on her commitment come November.
Yes, that's exactly what I took from the end -- and I had no problem identifying with him, worshipping him even. :D
starboardlight:
--- Quote from: rtprod on May 15, 2006, 02:31:46 pm ---I think in the context of this film it justifies the means, at least as a narrative device to move Evie on to where she needs to get psychologically--free. She comes into her own consciousness and full power during this exercise. I think she felt betrayed by it in the moment only, but understood its significance in her life later which is why she made good to return on her commitment come November.
Yes, that's exactly what I took from the end -- and I had no problem identifying with him, worshipping him even. :D
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you're right as a narrative device it works. if i take the film as just a story, it's great fun. but i also see it as wanting to be a commentary on GW's "War on Terror". On that level, that part of the film fell apart for me. I can't justify torture under any circumstance, especially if it's meant to fight against someone who uses torture.
rtprod:
--- Quote from: starboardlight on May 15, 2006, 03:41:45 pm ---you're right as a narrative device it works. if i take the film as just a story, it's great fun. but i also see it as wanting to be a commentary on GW's "War on Terror". On that level, that part of the film fell apart for me. I can't justify torture under any circumstance, especially if it's meant to fight against someone who uses torture.
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Okay Starboard, let's have it out with our loving mano-a-mano here lol.
Can you really call what V did to Evie torture? I thought it was just simple deprivation really, and not too extreme... Just basic interrogation and prisoner will breaking....
rt
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