BetterMost Community Blogs > The Twist Family Bible Study
what do you believe?
BlissC:
Interesting thread. I usually tend to shy away from religious discussions online - mainly because places I've posted before that type of thread has descended into total chaos, with flame rows erupting and lots of general all round nastiness, though those other places haven't had the same sort of community feel as here.
I've always been I guess what you'd call agnostic. I've never had much time for organised religion, and I disagree with various bits of the Bible, on homosexuality, divorce etc. etc. I used to have a feeling though that there was "something" out there though.
About four years ago after my aunty died, for a long time after I felt as though she was still around somewhere, and I did start to wonder if there was something out there. Last summer though my grandma died. She was diagnosed with advanced bowel cancer, and after an emergency operation and a few weeks in hospital, she came to live with us as there was no way she could manage on her own. Her doctors had warned us there was nothing more they could do, and that she had probably only about 6 months at the outside.
For four months she lived with us, and I watched her deteriorate every day. And at the end in her last couple of days I saw close-up everything she went through. For years she'd been a church-goer, and devout believer, but after seeing what I saw I could not comprehend that if there was a God he would be so cruel to let her endure what she went through. The night she died, a quote came back to me, it's a line from the movie, "And the band played on"...
--- Quote ---A cruel god ain't no god at all.
--- End quote ---
On all the forums I posted on regularly at the time, I changed my signature to that as a kind of tribute to her, and it's stayed that way since then, and I no longer believe there's anything out there at all.
forsythia12:
--- Quote from: susiebk on March 11, 2008, 08:59:50 pm ---Bliss,
I am sorry about what you had to go through. When I was a young teenager my Mom and I watched my Grandma die slowly of colon cancer, over a 2 year period. It was completely horrible, and at the end my Mom had lost all her faith in God and I wasn't far behind, becoming an Athiest and eventually an Agnostic. Two years after my Grandma died my most beloved Grandpa also died of cancer, although more quickly and with a lot less suffering. It is so hard to believe in a benevolent God who would let such terrible things happen to such good people. My Grandpa is my hero to this day, 24 years after I lost him. I am an Agnostic now, rather than an Athiest, only because some optimistic part of me wants to believe that the world is too complex to be completely sure of what is and what isn't.
Susie
--- End quote ---
oh boy. i say this only because i have a different view and i'm affraid to post it because it's a very biblical view of these very issues. i don't wish to argue, debate, prove the existence of god, or lack there of, nor do i wish to defend my own beliefs, so please, please.....if you disagree with what i'm about to say, that's totally okay... i completely respect that, but i beg you not to come at me with arrows. :(
first off, i am a christian, but i struggle with my faith at times, and i'm not perfect in any way, shape or form. i am only giving this view because it's appropriate for this thread, and it's what i've come to believe. i used to hate god. i was a complete athiest, but the angrier i got, the more i wanted to know how 'god' could allow such shitty things to happen, and that's what got me asking questions. i guess, deep down, i didn't want to 'write god off', but rather seek the idea out even more, and now, i feel like i have a lot more answers.......or at least, answers that work for me.
basically, from a christian stance, we are living in a sinful world, and we are sinfull people...some worse than others, but sinners nonetheless. due to this, the world is full of suffering, pain, and death, among other injustices, and this was never god's will. am i saying that these dear grandparents deserve the suffering? no, but i'm saying there is a reason for the world being the way it is, and as difficult as it is to fathom, the bible fills in the rest of the story, and god's plan to help heal the world of this so that manind recieve everything god first intended us to have.
personally, i don't think anyone grieves about our pain and suffering as much as god does, and although it seems like HE DID IT, or HE allowed it, the bible teaches something much different, and for me, it's comforting. i used to blame god for everything wrong in the world, but now i see it much differently, and to me, this biblical version makes much more sense.
i do NOT wish to insult or critsize anyone who believes differently, and i'm not saying that my way is the way it is. it's just another point of view.
i'd be happy to post more about the bible or anything else regarding this, but i don't want to preach, or turn people away from this thread. i'm very open to any and all belief systems...and i want people to feel safe here to ask questions, post their beliefs, and explain themselves to any extent.
thanks for all your thoughts on this, and my heart goes ou
t to all those who have watched their loved ones suffer unimaginable pain. right now my neice has cancer, and i too am watching her fight for her life everyday. she's only a child, and so, i know how cruel cancer is.
please keep posting you guys, 'cause i think this thread is important, and it's good to know what people really believe in.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: forsythia12 on March 11, 2008, 11:34:57 pm ---oh boy. i say this only because i have a different view and i'm affraid to post it because it's a very biblical view of these very issues. i don't wish to argue, debate, prove the existence of god, or lack there of, nor do i wish to defend my own beliefs, so please, please.....if you disagree with what i'm about to say, that's totally okay... i completely respect that, but i beg you not to come at me with arrows. :(
first off, i am a christian, but i struggle with my faith at times, and i'm not perfect in any way, shape or form. i am only giving this view because it's appropriate for this thread, and it's what i've come to believe. i used to hate god. i was a complete athiest, but the angrier i got, the more i wanted to know how 'god' could allow such shitty things to happen, and that's what got me asking questions. i guess, deep down, i didn't want to 'write god off', but rather seek the idea out even more, and now, i feel like i have a lot more answers.......or at least, answers that work for me.
basically, from a christian stance, we are living in a sinful world, and we are sinfull people...some worse than others, but sinners nonetheless. due to this, the world is full of suffering, pain, and death, among other injustices, and this was never god's will. am i saying that these dear grandparents deserve the suffering? no, but i'm saying there is a reason for the world being the way it is, and as difficult as it is to fathom, the bible fills in the rest of the story, and god's plan to help heal the world of this so that manind recieve everything god first intended us to have.
personally, i don't think anyone grieves about our pain and suffering as much as god does, and although it seems like HE DID IT, or HE allowed it, the bible teaches something much different, and for me, it's comforting. i used to blame god for everything wrong in the world, but now i see it much differently, and to me, this biblical version makes much more sense.
i do NOT wish to insult or critsize anyone who believes differently, and i'm not saying that my way is the way it is. it's just another point of view.
i'd be happy to post more about the bible or anything else regarding this, but i don't want to preach, or turn people away from this thread. i'm very open to any and all belief systems...and i want people to feel safe here to ask questions, post their beliefs, and explain themselves to any extent.
thanks for all your thoughts on this, and my heart goes ou
t to all those who have watched their loved ones suffer unimaginable pain. right now my neice has cancer, and i too am watching her fight for her life everyday. she's only a child, and so, i know how cruel cancer is.
please keep posting you guys, 'cause i think this thread is important, and it's good to know what people really believe in.
--- End quote ---
It's interesting you bring this up forsynthia. On a freethinkers/atheist board that I go to, someone posted this:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1720092,00.html
After like 38 years as an atheist, the author Anne Rice (Interview with a Vampire) has returned to Christianity. The discussion about it on the board finally concluded that the reason she returned to her religion was for comfort. She could not reconcile herself to the fact that she would never see her child or husband again (both passed away). So in that respect, religion as a personal comfort, few people find fault with it. It's only when people try to take that comfort out into the world and spread "the Good Word" that troubles start happening.
forsythia12:
--- Quote from: delalluvia on March 12, 2008, 12:18:18 am ---It's interesting you bring this up forsynthia. On a freethinkers/atheist board that I go to, someone posted this:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1720092,00.html
After like 38 years as an atheist, the author Anne Rice (Interview with a Vampire) has returned to Christianity. The discussion about it on the board finally concluded that the reason she returned to her religion was for comfort. She could not reconcile herself to the fact that she would never see her child or husband again (both passed away). So in that respect, religion as a personal comfort, few people find fault with it. It's only when people try to take that comfort out into the world and spread "the Good Word" that troubles start happening.
--- End quote ---
forsythia has no 'N'.
but, back on topic, i suppose you're right that problems can arise when people 'spread the word', but it depends on how it's done. i think my post was tastefully done, and i doubt anyone took offense to it after the debriefing i gave with it. also, i think most people, when they go out and tell others about their faith, usually have good intentions...they just may go about it the wrong way. the person who does this needs to first make sure that their opinion is not unsolicited in any way, and that's what i did with the post, and i think it's appropriate for the type of thread this is. i wouldn't post this anywhere else on the forum....
that's interesting about the article. yes, i agree, it is comforting for many people.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: forsythia12 on March 12, 2008, 12:33:24 am ---forsythia has no 'N'.
but, back on topic, i suppose you're right that problems can arise when people 'spread the word', but it depends on how it's done. i think my post was tastefully done, and i doubt anyone took offense to it after the debriefing i gave with it. also, i think most people, when they go out and tell others about their faith, usually have good intentions...they just may go about it the wrong way. the person who does this needs to first make sure that their opinion is not unsolicited in any way, and that's what i did with the post, and i think it's appropriate for the type of thread this is. i wouldn't post this anywhere else on the forum....
that's interesting about the article. yes, i agree, it is comforting for many people.
--- End quote ---
I'm sorry if I gave you the impression I was criticizing your post - let me spell it right - forsythia I was not, I was speaking about proselytizing in general.
People may have good intentions, but you know the saying, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Almost all proselytizing is unsolicited, so people shouldn't be going on missionary work at all because in doing so they are being presumptive that - unasked - people want to hear about another religion's message.
My Mormon friend even admitted that he was sending people to a Mormon hell on his missions. If people had never heard the message of the Mormons, then they wouldn't go to hell. But if they had heard it and rejected it, then they were going to hell. So basically, by going on a mission and educating people about Mormonism, he was sending more people to his religion's hell than otherwise would be if they remained ignorant.
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