Our BetterMost Community > Chez Tremblay

sexual orientation, jealousy, and the definition of infidelity.

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Jeff Wrangler:

--- Quote from: injest on March 11, 2008, 11:12:44 am ---I know! Trying to place blame is ridiculous...I dont' believe ANY of these people were the conspiring users that they are constantly referred to. That to me subverts the entire point of the movie.

but some people have to have a villian...it has to be Alma and Lureens fault....it has to be Ennis's fault....

no. it was society at that time and place. but it is easier to blame a person than circumstances that are beyond any of the characters control.

--- End quote ---

I agree with you, Jess.  :)

And it occurs to me that writing about people's actions in circumstances beyond their control is one of Annie Proulx's chief interests, or so I think I've read somewhere.

injest:

--- Quote from: Front-Ranger on March 11, 2008, 11:14:43 am ---I did not mean to portray Alma in a bad light. She was a rural woman with few prospects in life and probably preoccupied with not having to go back to another lonely ranch house (which is where she probably grew up). Of course she had reason to ask Ennis to wear protection, but she also could have gotten birth control pills, which were available back then. She may have also sensed that Ennis was just having sex with her in order to get her pregnant and in order to have visible "proof" to the whole world that he was "a man." To her credit, she went out and got a job, but she held it against Ennis. What I mean by "using" is the way you would use a tool to make work easier or get what you want. I don't mean it like "used up" in the sense of consumed and then thrown out. I don't think Jack felt he had a say in the matter when Lureen seduced him in the T-bird. He was pinned underneath her. If he had refused her, his masculinity would be in question. He did voice some concern, "Whoa, you are in a hurry." In the story, he later said about having children "I didn't want one a either kind" (boy or girl).

--- End quote ---

And how many rural women do you think had access to birth control pills? One, you have to go to the doctor to get them, and rural women rarely go to the doctor. Free clinics are FEW and far between, add on the social stigma of being on birth control (and I am personally aware that there still IS some left over even today) add on the fact that if you know your partner, gay, straight, male or female is being unfaithful, then you are at risk of VD well a condom is not an unreasonable request.

Front-Ranger:

--- Quote from: injest on March 11, 2008, 11:35:01 am ---And how many rural women do you think had access to birth control pills? One, you have to go to the doctor to get them, and rural women rarely go to the doctor. Free clinics are FEW and far between, add on the social stigma of being on birth control (and I am personally aware that there still IS some left over even today) add on the fact that if you know your partner, gay, straight, male or female is being unfaithful, then you are at risk of VD well a condom is not an unreasonable request.

--- End quote ---

Well, me, I was one. I lived in rural Kansas at the time and started taking birth control pills in 1970. No, you did not have to go to a doctor. You could go to a clinic or Planned Parenthood. Yes, they had that then.

But, this is all beside the issue. I'm glad Alma found a way to call a halt to the whole charade, because if she would have had to bear child after unwanted child just so Ennis could prove his masculinity, well that is a GDBOAUS for all concerned.

Artiste:
Boy, these posts are puzzling to me... may I say.

I think that BOTH Ennis and Jack did not REALLY want the other to have sex with another person!!

That I see that in the BM movie!! But is it so in Annie's story?

Au revoir,

hugs!

southendmd:
Getting back on topic...

I always thought it interesting that Jack and Ennis can easily talk about women:  in fact, it's Jack who starts it when he says "all this time you ain't found no one else to marry"--->Ennis mentions Cassie --->Jack lies about the ranch foreman's wife. There's no obvious jealousy at all. 

To me, that's their "pact":  "We ain't queer." 

When Jack reveals "the truth is...sometimes I miss you so much, I can hardly stand it", that statement is awfully close to "I love you", and therefore unacceptable to Ennis.  Ennis sort of cowers in response. 

I always wondered if Ennis felt too threatened by this, and "made up" the story about August. 

Jack certainly looked dejected that next morning.  Is he expecting yet another rejection from Ennis? 

Then, the whole Mexico thing, confirming Jack is queer.  Which means Ennis is queer.  Their pact is broken.  I think it's less out of jealousy or cheating, but about Ennis being confronted with who he really is.  Ennis makes his threat, then the pathetic "it's cuz of you I'm like this". 

Ending with the "can't stand this anymore, Jack".  Coming from the man who originally said "if you can't fix it, you gotta stand it".

Can't fix it.  Can't stand it.

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