sexual orientation, jealousy, and the definition of infidelity.

Our BetterMost Community > Chez Tremblay

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Jeff Wrangler:

--- Quote from: atz75 on March 11, 2008, 02:35:20 pm ---And, on the flip side, I think Jack is desperate to have some discussions about emotions (get emotional validation from Ennis in some way).
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Exactly!

--- Quote ---So frustrating for both of them. And, I think this "I miss you so much..." moment is such a great illustration of both of their dilemmas here and an impass they have over communication (again, a common theme as their relationship progresses).

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So sad, isn't it? :(

southendmd:

--- Quote from: atz75 on March 11, 2008, 02:35:20 pm ---So frustrating for both of them. And, I think this "I miss you so much..." moment is such a great illustration of both of their dilemmas here and an impass they have over communication (again, a common theme as their relationship progresses).

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--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on March 11, 2008, 02:45:31 pm ---So sad, isn't it? :(

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It's one of the saddest moment for me. They're playing their "bravado" thing, bragging about women, turning it into a joke. Jack states he'll probably get shot by Lureen or "the husband", and Ennis, jokingly but ominously says, "You probably deserve it."

Right then, Jack's mood shifts, he pauses, and starts with "tell you what, (pause), truth is, (pause), sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it." And Jack says this with a voice that's softer and higher pitched, almost like the younger Jack. I just love his delivery of that line.

It's the most direct either of them is to the other with how they feel. The closest Ennis comes is "Jack, I swear".

injest:

--- Quote from: Front-Ranger on March 11, 2008, 11:49:42 am ---Well, me, I was one. I lived in rural Kansas at the time and started taking birth control pills in 1970. No, you did not have to go to a doctor. You could go to a clinic or Planned Parenthood. Yes, they had that then.

But, this is all beside the issue. I'm glad Alma found a way to call a halt to the whole charade, because if she would have had to bear child after unwanted child just so Ennis could prove his masculinity, well that is a GDBOAUS for all concerned.

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how great for you! I, being raised in the 'hellfire and brimstone' crowd did not have access to these free clinics NOR Planned Parenthood. I am glad they were available for some people and as time went by they spread throughout the country but there isn't one here in our lil hamlet to this day. I am sure if you have the resources and access to a car you could drive to a larger city to obtain these services...unfortunately (as much as we like to pretend otherwise) there are people in this country that still do not have access to basic health care.

Just because some people have options does not mean everyone does. You have YOUR experiences I grew up on food stamps and government cheese. I think I know a little about the options available to women locked in rural poverty...

Shakesthecoffecan:
Whew, this is a complex one. Lets see if I can get my mind around it.

When they first met Ennis was engaged, so their FNIT would in my mind be cheating on Ennis's part if you look at it strictly as a "sex is sex" viewpoint. The nature of their relationship, undefined as it was the first summer, put it in a category of something on the down low ("Nobody's business but ours.") and they seem to have looked at it that way. It was a private matter between the two of them, Ennis counting on that to keep it that way. It was another whole game the two of them played outside of their marriage commitments. They were bound to each other by this too.

Now enter Randall.

Ennis had asked Jack in the short story in 1967 did he ever do it with other guys. Jack after a moment of hesitation said no, and Proulx makes one of her obscure references to indicate he is lying ("had been riding more than just the bulls, not rolling his own.") Ennis states that he has never thought about doing it with another guy. Certainly there is a double standard in place. Ennis expects fidelity from Jack, while not being faithful to Alma. Jack on the other hand wants a commitment from Ennis that he is not prepared to give, so perhaps Jack feels he can seek out solice other places because he cannot make it on a couple of high altitude fucks once or twice a year.

So in the story I think that it is a part of their not having an instruction manual, not knowing what to do and the major misunderstanding of their relationship. Ennis, who lived a solitary life and had only his daughters and Jack as bright points in his life. Suddenly one third of that happiness lets him know: Your not the only one.

In real life I see a lot of gay relationships face the same obstacles. In cases of people coming out of the closet an involvement with another person of the same sex often is part of the mix.

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