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When did Jack's "gaydar" go off?

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BlissC:
Interesting question arising from the the Sexual orientation, jealousy, and the definition of infidelity thread where discussing the Pentecost and sinners Jack says "guys like you and me"...


--- Quote from: atz75 on March 12, 2008, 01:23:11 pm ---I think this is a really good question... about what Jack was implying with the statement, "guys like you and me".  What exactly was Jack seeing in Ennis that he already understood to be in common with himself?  I don't recall this particular statement being discussed much in depth before... so this could be a really interesting point of discussion.

Maybe this is a little moment of revelation (to the audience) about Jack's level of "gaydar" when it comes to his understanding of Ennis.  But, a first-time viewer wouldn't know yet about the sexual relationship that develops between Jack and Ennis.  So, an analysis of his statement in that regard has to happen a bit in retrospect.

--- End quote ---

Has Jack's gaydar gone off? Is this the moment he realises (and the audience gets their first inkling) that maybe, just maybe the summer might hold a bit more interest than just sitting around counting woolies? How about Ennis's response?

Thoughts?

optom3:
I think Jack has definitely got Ennis sussed by the time of the "fellas  like you and I" conversation.(In fact maybe even right from the start in the trailer.)
Ennis laughs at this in the film and says he has not had the opportunity to sin yet. I always took that laugh, and slight look that Ennis gives Jack,and it is very slight,almost as a precursor to what is going to happen.like a very very subtle come on, that stops short.
It is of course not quite a come on by Ennis,but maybe there is a hint there,He is way too shy and subtle for outright suggestion.I do though think that it could taken as , are you going to introduce me to sin then.

It is  particularly interesting that in the conversation, Ennis does not try and deny or protest,the fellas like you and us part,or even question it.Just says he hasnt had the opportunity yet.

Also in both the book and film in TS1 it is Ennis who takes control.It is not as if he is the passive one.Ditto the reunion scene.
 However reluctant Ennis may be to accept the truth,he knows it somewhere,very deep inside and Jack recognises that almost from the word go.

No matter how much all the anti gays may rant,the majority of gay men can recognise signs in others.It may suit the homophobes to think otherwise,but it is just idiotic .No one unless particulary nasty or stupid, gay or staright,is going to run the risk of humiliation and rejection,by making a pass that is going to end in a bloody nose or worse.
I think it is often missed just how sensitive Jack is, as regards his "gaydar"It is hardly as if Ennis is sending out smoke signals!!!!
But then that is the beauty of the book and film,its genius subtleties.

Artiste:
Wow, wow!!

Interesting!

Au revoir,
hugs!

myprivatejack:
As Jack got attracted to Ennis from the very moment they met,I think this words are a way to "check Ennis out",it's to say,just to know how he answered to them.We must bear in mind that Ennis had been doing his best just to please Jack: swifting each other jobs, commanding soup instead of so many beans cans,killing the elk... Do you think that all this details answer to a way to thank his fellow? For sharing duties and loneliness up in the mountain and for making him be more open,laugh,LIVE more than never before, or for anything more?.
Jack needed to have also an answer to this and have,in this way,a hope that his feelings could be sharing for his friend.And I think this one gave him a hint not saying a word to this "...guys like you and me"; however,it's possible that Ennis-who was struggling between WHAT HE MUST DO and WHAT HE WANTED TO DO-took these words in the sense of "some uprooted,poor and rough guys like you and me".Or that a side of him WANTED to take these words into this meaning,of course...What do you think?.
But immediately after that,he says this stuff of "his opportunities" that is clearly a flirting with Jack;for me much more than a mere trust in a friend whom you have opened yourself,speaking about your life more than with nobody else before...And the glance with he ends this phrase,wow¡...it speaks volumes about something that was on the air.And that few hours after,the alcohol helped to "explode",giving them a little push.

BlissC:

--- Quote from: optom3 on March 12, 2008, 06:57:41 pm ---Ennis laughs at this in the film and says he has not had the opportunity to sin yet. I always took that laugh, and slight look that Ennis gives Jack,and it is very slight,almost as a precursor to what is going to happen.like a very very subtle come on, that stops short.
It is of course not quite a come on by Ennis,but maybe there is a hint there,He is way too shy and subtle for outright suggestion.I do though think that it could taken as , are you going to introduce me to sin then.

It is  particularly interesting that in the conversation, Ennis does not try and deny or protest,the fellas like you and us part,or even question it.Just says he hasn't had the opportunity yet.

--- End quote ---

That's how I see it too. As you say, it's the subtleties of the story and the film that are so telling. Am I right in thinking though that this particular scene isn't in the story? I've looked, and as far as I can see, unless it's mentioned again later, the story says simply "he favoured a sad hymn, "Water-Walking Jesus", learned from his mother who believed in the Pentecost".


--- Quote ---But immediately after that,he says this stuff of "his opportunities" that is clearly a flirting with Jack;for me much more than a mere trust in a friend whom you have opened yourself,speaking about your life more than with nobody else before...And the glance with he ends this phrase,wow¡...it speaks volumes about something that was on the air.
--- End quote ---

That's it! That's the word I was looking for! It does seem, especially with the kind of half smile he gives, as though in his own shy way Ennis is flirting with Jack.

As you say, it's also very clear that right from the start that Ennis is doing everything that he can to take care of Jack - from switching jobs, ordering the soup, etc., which would suggest that Ennis too has feelings for Jack from very early up on the mountain.

I find this scene very interesting because on the one hand, as has been suggested on other threads, Ennis may be talking about he and Alma, which would suggest that he and Alma haven't had sex, suggesting Jack is the first. On the other hand though if Ennis is flirting with Jack and he's talking more about their attraction, that doesn't give anything away about Ennis's relationship with Alma, re-opening the whole debate about who was first.

Wow! The more and more time I spend here debating the ins and outs of the film, and replaying scenes, the more I can see the genius in Ang's directing and in the screenplay.

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