Our BetterMost Community > Chez Tremblay
OT: X-MEN: THE LAST STAND is....
starboardlight:
--- Quote from: rtprod on May 29, 2006, 01:05:55 pm ---I saw it again and liked it much better the second time. However, I do think the scene at the end of the credits is beyond silly, one of those reversals that calls into question every single thing you've seen for three films.
Could have easily done without that little "twist."
--- End quote ---
i did go "whoa!" when I first saw it, but my overly geeky mind went into over time. Within the framework of the mutant universe, would Charles become just a man in that body. The mutant powers exist because of their genetics, their mutant dna. That means their power is bound to their particular body. When a mind transfer happens (assuming it could) Xavier's power would still be bound to his old body, wouldn't it? And would he still be Charles?
For me, I loved the philosophical questions that were explored in the comics, and enjoyed some of it in the first two. I felt like this last one, only touch on them without an real exploration. The idea of identity is import, but what happens when part of that identity is altered/suppressed. The "cure" has such a huge philosophic implication, and the film did nothing with that. For example, people who are bipolar struggle with the fact that taking medication suppress some of their mental acuity. They feel like they're in a fog all the time and don't feel like themselves. They feel like the medication takes away some of their identity. The "cure" in the X-men take that to a whole other level.
And the same question is also touched upon, with Jean/Pheonix. If Pheonix is a suppressed part of Jean, then is Jean also only a part of her whole, and not fully who she is? I would have loved to see Jean struggle with Pheonix more. I was hoping that like the comics, Jean finally does win out in that struggle, takes control of her body and her powers, but in an act of self sacrifice, destroys herself to prevent a cosmic disaster that Pheonix had started. I would have loved for her death to be more proactive and meaningful than it was.
delalluvia:
The part with Eric at the chessboard at the end was poignant...until you saw what he was doing.
SPOILERS!!!! SPOILERS!!!!!!! SPOILERS!!!!!!!!
Then, as a friend of mine said, if true, doesn't that pretty much negate the entire movie? That there was really no cure?
JCinNYC2006:
--- Quote from: starboardlight on May 29, 2006, 06:27:34 pm ---i did go "whoa!" when I first saw it, but my overly geeky mind went into over time. Within the framework of the mutant universe, would Charles become just a man in that body. The mutant powers exist because of their genetics, their mutant dna. That means their power is bound to their particular body. When a mind transfer happens (assuming it could) Xavier's power would still be bound to his old body, wouldn't it? And would he still be Charles?
--- End quote ---
Wow, I hadn't even considered that. I suppose it's possible that when the next movie comes (not 'if' anymore, considering the grosses this weekend), they may be able to restore his powers and explain it somehow. After seeing it on Thursday with a friend who is totally X-Men naive, I explained to her how Jean became Phoenix, died, and then came back yet again. I had to laugh at how implausible it sounded even in the books. So even as a hardcore fan from way back (I remember buying and reading X-Men 101 when Phoenix was introduced!), I came to accept that the movies and the comics won't always be orthodox in sharing origins, characterizations, or relationships, and to hope for the films to resonate in some way like the comics did for me.
--- Quote from: starboardlight on May 29, 2006, 06:27:34 pm ---For me, I loved the philosophical questions that were explored in the comics, and enjoyed some of it in the first two. I felt like this last one, only touch on them without an real exploration. The idea of identity is import, but what happens when part of that identity is altered/suppressed. The "cure" has such a huge philosophic implication, and the film did nothing with that. For example, people who are bipolar struggle with the fact that taking medication suppress some of their mental acuity. They feel like they're in a fog all the time and don't feel like themselves. They feel like the medication takes away some of their identity. The "cure" in the X-men take that to a whole other level.
--- End quote ---
I hear you on how the movie didn't fully explore the ramifications of the cure on how those who took it felt about themselves afterwards. Rogue coming back to the mansion afterwards was touching to me because she could have seen herself as no longer "belonging", and it would have been interesting to see how Bobby and the other folks related to her long term. I don't really follow the analogy of curing mutants with medicating people with mental illness. Incorporating those symptoms into one's identity could be seen as part of the pathology. I think a closer analogy would be the research to cure deafness or change sexual orientation.
--- Quote from: starboardlight on May 29, 2006, 06:27:34 pm ---And the same question is also touched upon, with Jean/Pheonix. If Pheonix is a suppressed part of Jean, then is Jean also only a part of her whole, and not fully who she is? I would have loved to see Jean struggle with Pheonix more. I was hoping that like the comics, Jean finally does win out in that struggle, takes control of her body and her powers, but in an act of self sacrifice, destroys herself to prevent a cosmic disaster that Pheonix had started. I would have loved for her death to be more proactive and meaningful than it was.
--- End quote ---
I agree here totally. Ratner could have had Jean have more of an internal conflict going on while Magneto is leading the troops, instead of basically standing off to the side looking blank. Man I still remember in X-Men 137 right before the self-sacrifice sequence, where she and Cyclops make a last stand. The captions read something like, "They were young. They were in love. They heroes. Today they will prove it beyond all shadow of a doubt". Woof, gives me goosebumps just thinking about it. Aaaaah comic book nerd flashbacks!
Juan
starboardlight:
--- Quote from: JCinNYC2006 on May 30, 2006, 01:03:19 am ---I hear you on how the movie didn't fully explore the ramifications of the cure on how those who took it felt about themselves afterwards. Rogue coming back to the mansion afterwards was touching to me because she could have seen herself as no longer "belonging", and it would have been interesting to see how Bobby and the other folks related to her long term. I don't really follow the analogy of curing mutants with medicating people with mental illness. Incorporating those symptoms into one's identity could be seen as part of the pathology. I think a closer analogy would be the research to cure deafness or change sexual orientation.
--- End quote ---
I'm not so much comparing "the cure" with the treatment for bipolar disorder, but rather was pointing out that in that treatment, the side effect takes away something from those being treated. They feel like they're in a mental fog all the time and express a feeling like they've lost a part of themselves. On a human level, it's an complex issue, and definitely one worth exploring. They have to give up a part of their identity in order to fit into our world. That's a parallel on some level with the film. In any case, it's just one example of many that can be drawn from.
JCinNYC2006:
--- Quote from: starboardlight on May 30, 2006, 01:33:42 pm ---I'm not so much comparing "the cure" with the treatment for bipolar disorder, but rather was pointing out that in that treatment, the side effect takes away something from those being treated. They feel like they're in a mental fog all the time and express a feeling like they've lost a part of themselves. On a human level, it's an complex issue, and definitely one worth exploring. They have to give up a part of their identity in order to fit into our world. That's a parallel on some level with the film. In any case, it's just one example of many that can be drawn from.
--- End quote ---
I see what you mean. Even though the cure is for the condition, it can still be experienced as cutting off something that one sees as part of their identity. In the case of mental illness, my instinct is to say that feeling that loss of a part of themselves is positive, something to be worked through, rather than holding on to the pathology. Giving up that part is one's identity so one can be accepted or fit in...in a way it's like making choices about what one is willing to give up or change. Very good point there.
Juan
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version