An Accurate Time Line of BBM - Let's Figure It Out Together!!

[Brown Eyes]

<img src="http://www.divshare.com/img/midsize/4380404-3a2.jpg" border="0" />

Hey Friends!

Let's all put our heads together and come up with the most accurate time line for Brokeback Mountain possible.  I know there are lots of clues in the film, the screenplay and the short story to work with in creating a relatively reliable chronology of events.  We can use things like the schedule of the full moon for the summer of 1963 to determine certain dates for the initial Brokeback summer for Jack and Ennis.  And then, there are lots of text-based clues from Proulx's story/ the screenplay and prop-based/dialogue-based clues from the film itself.

The time line we come up with may be used in creating certain design features here at BetterMost.  And, it seems like such a fun opportunity for a group project.  Figuring all of this out can be tricky for sure.  But, I think we can learn a lot about Brokeback Mountain as a group in the process!

[Brown Eyes]

So, let's start with the very beginning and try to figure out the '63 summer in as much as possible.


I'll start by posting the calendar of full moons for 1963 for reference.  This list is according to this website:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/fullmoon.htm



1963 Jan  9 23:09  Wed   
1963 Feb  8 14:52  Fri   
1963 Mar 10 07:49  Sun   
1963 Apr  9 00:57  Tue   
1963 May  8 17:23  Wed   
1963 Jun  7 08:31  Fri   
1963 Jul  6 21:55  Sat   
1963 Aug  5 09:31  Mon   
1963 Sep  3 19:33  Tue   
1963 Oct  3 04:44  Thu   
1963 Nov  1 13:55  Fri   
1963 Nov 30 23:55  Sat   
1963 Dec 30 11:05  Mon   

So, If this is the case...

And, if we can interpret this as a full moon...

<img src="http://www.divshare.com/img/midsize/2650142-c1c.jpg" border="0" />

Then it probably occurred on June 7, 1963, since this is so early in their experience on Brokeback and since May 8 seems too early and July 6 seems too late.

[Fran]

"The first snow came early, on August thirteenth, piling up a foot, but was followed by a quick melt."



So this must be the morning of August 13, 1963.  (Ennis is surprised to see the snow, so I'm assuming it started snowing after he went to sleep.)

Now we can fill in the blanks between June 7th and August 13th. 

[belbbmfan]

I actually did sit down and work this out myself once, for a story I did, and used the lunar calendar as a basis, though the individual components of the original story, screenplay, and direction dont always quite slide together. thes tory to screenplay struck me as filled with the kind of errors a writer has in his (and her, in this case) first draft that you flag and take care of later, like the time of year Bobby and Lureen met, I never thought she was prgenant with another guys kid, I just figured the banner with the "August 1963" on it at the rodeo was an error on the part of whoever did the props that couldnt be fixed later. From the hurried nature of a lot of the screenplay in the "Story to Screenplay" book, Id bet they never imagined the mount of interest it would generate and it was something hurriedly rushed into the publishing house to capitalize on it.

But both Ang Lee and Annie Proulx are masters of their craft, and they alternate between sparsity and lushness of narrative that makes me assume thart little in the final product is chance. Also, Ang Lee uses symmetry and parallelism a lot, as do I, why I latched onto it probably. For example, the opener, a shot of Ennis riding in a truck against a backdrop of hills at the break of day, everything he has of value in the world in a paper sack. And at the end, Ennnis rides in atruck from the other diretion, against a backdrop of hill at the close of day, everything he has of value in the world in a paper sack.

So with that in mind, I'm betting the line "the wedding's June 5th at the Methodist church" uttered by Alma Jr at the end (and Ennis's bearely detectable wince) is mighty significant: Jack and Ennis met on June 5th.

What a fantastic observation (especially about Ennis wincing). The reminder of the date, the fact that Alma jr. is getting married all leads to Ennis saying 'Jack, I swear'.

[j.U.d.E.]

So, let's start with the very beginning and try to figure out the '63 summer in as much as possible.

I'll start by posting the calendar of full moons for 1963 for reference.  This list is according to this website:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/fullmoon.htm

I think it was said before, but according to this website Amanda, Heath Ledger died on a full moon.............  Maybe even at that exact time.....

-> 2007 Dec 24 01:17  Mon    2454458.553
-> 2008 Jan 22 13:36  Tue    2454488.067
-> 2008 Feb 21 03:32  Thu    2454517.647


j. U. d. E.

[Fran]

So with that in mind, I'm betting the line "the wedding's June 5th at the Methodist church" uttered by Alma Jr at the end (and Ennis's bearely detectable wince) is mighty significant: Jack and Ennis met on June 5th.

Wow!  I think you're on to something here. 

[mouk]

That's a fabulous explanation for this date!  June 5th would have been on a Saturday in 1982, but on a Tuesday in 1984, which does not make sense for a religious wedding. I had thought he winced with hurt pride because Monroe, and not he, the real father, was hosting the party, but your explanation is totally convincing: he winces, looks out the window with tears in his eyes, talks about love for the first time ever and decides to break a life time habit of putting work before everything else. In the name of love. And yes, this leads naturally to 'I swear'.

Wow 

[southendmd]

June 5th...gives me goosebumps now.

[Brown Eyes]

The June 5th observation really is wonderful!  I've always wondered if there was a way to figure out what day Ennis and Jack have their first meeting. 

Since June 5th, 1984 (assuming that's the year when Junior plans on getting married) is a Tuesday... the metaphorical significance of the date June 5th (as being the meeting date between Ennis and Jack) overrides the awkwardness of suggesting that a wedding would take place on a Tuesday. 

June 5th...gives me goosebumps now.

It gives me goosebumps too!  And, since that first full moon with Jack and the sheep is June 7... it makes a lot of sense.  I'm assuming that the June 7th is probably their first full night on the mountain.


OK!  So here's what we have so far for 1963...

June 5, 1963- Jack and Ennis meet at Aguirre's trailer
June 7, 1963- Jack and Ennis's first night on Brokeback
August 13, 1963- first snow/ Ennis wakes up in the snow


Let's not worry too much (yet) about continuity issues further on down the line in the chronology (i.e. when Jack and Lureen meet, etc.).  Let's really focus on '63 for now.

[optom3]

June 5th...gives me goosebumps now.

Me too, what an amazing observation/deduction.I thought there was nothing else left to dissect in the film or s.s . I think you may well be on to something there.
Judgeholden I really think we can take it even further.Assuming the 2 most important people in the life of Ennis were,Jack and Alma junior.We can then tie in beautifully the final scene.
Ennis met Jack on June 5th, Alma is getting wed on June 5th, and he takes Almas jumper and carefully places it in the closet with Jack's shirt.
The whole thing has really come full circle.
So that cheers me up slightly, as maybe Ennis has founf some peace?

[Shakesthecoffecan]

The Thresher sank on 10 April 1963.

[Shakesthecoffecan]

June 5th...gives me goosebumps now.

Me too, and Heath died on the full moon, I remember that moon, looking at it from the interstate in Florida while Eartha Kitt sang "Moon River". 

[mouk]

The Thresher sank on 10 April 1963.

It ties in: 'the Thesher lost two months earlier' - they talked about it in June, early on in their time on the mountain

First night in the tent shows full moon in the movie : 1963 Jul  6  Sat? (well more likely in the early hours of the Sunday : "the moon had notched past 2")

And the moving to higher pastures happened before that, obviously

[Brown Eyes]

It ties in: 'the Thesher lost two months earlier' - they talked about it in June, early on in their time on the mountain

First night in the tent shows full moon in the movie : 1963 Jul  6  Sat? (well more likely in the early hours of the Sunday : "the moon had notched past 2")

And the moving to higher pastures happened before that, obviously

Thanks mouk!  Yep, TS1 is definitely a full moon too (one of the clearest intances I think).  And, doesn't the story mention that it's past 2 am?  I don't have my story here with me at work  so, I can't check.... and maybe I'm imagining that.

Do we believe that TS2 happened the night immediately following TS1?  I think that's what we're meant to believe.

And, do we think the "happy tussle" happened the morning after TS2?  I know there's been some debate about that in the past.

OK!  So, here's the summary time line so far:

June 5, 1963- Jack and Ennis meet at Aguirre's trailer
June 7, 1963- Jack and Ennis's first night on Brokeback
July 6-7, 1963- TS1
July 7-8, 1963- TS2 (do we believe this?)
July 8, 1963- happy tussle (do we believe this?)
August 13, 1963- first snow/ Ennis wakes up in the snow

[Fran]

Re the "happy tussle":

I tend to think this wouldn't immediately follow TS2.  I'm thinking it would take a little time for Ennis to get comfortable with Jack.  I'm thinking along the lines of sex in the tent is one thing and sex out in the open is another.  The story seems to back this up:

"They never talked about the sex, let it happen, at first only in the tent at night, then in the full daylight with the hot sun striking down..."

Of course, it could very well have happened the next day, too.  I'd like to hear people's reasons for thinking along those lines.

[mouk]

Fran - sorry for repeating what you say, I was about to post when you posted But we agree so all is well 

You're not imagining ATZ, the story says '"the moon had notched past 2"

TS2 - my personal feeling is that Ennis needed time to brood over what had happened and that Jack gave him this necessary time even though he had hoped to see him for supper. He probably went up after they spent one night separately (not more than that, likely, as there was no food up there, just a few stone biscuits at the most)

Also, this may or not be relevant, but a previous script put a scene between TS1 and TS2 with Ennis coming down to camp in the evening but brushing Jack off when he tried to help him tend his horse before disappearing again into the night - or something like that. Which would indicate that at some stage at least, the film-makers envisaged a time interval between TS1 and TS2.

Happy tussle - I doubt very much it is straight after TS2. Ennis needed much more time than that to be that relaxed. This, I think, is meant to show how comfortable they became over time. And the story says: 'they never talked abut the sex, let it happen, at first only in the tent at night, the in the full daylight with the hot sun striking down ad at evening in the fire glow'.

Also, the film has to show various stages in the summer, not all scenes can be concentrated over 2 or 3 days.

Aguirre's visit, and therefore happy tussle was most likely before August. Perhaps just before August as the next sentence from the visit talks about the hail storm

then 5 miserable days untangling them sheep

then 13 August with the first snow (you have already found the movie scene for this)

then  the next week Aguirre sends word to bring them down  (around the 20th? there is leeway, depending on if 13th August 1963 was early or late in the week)

[Brown Eyes]

Re the "happy tussle":

I tend to think this wouldn't immediately follow TS2.  I'm thinking it would take a little time for Ennis to get comfortable with Jack.  I'm thinking along the lines of sex in the tent is one thing and sex out in the open is another.  The story seems to back this up:

"They never talked about the sex, let it happen, at first only in the tent at night, then in the full daylight with the hot sun striking down..."

Of course, it could very well have happened the next day, too.  I'd like to hear people's reasons for thinking along those lines.

I tend to agree with this.  I think Ennis's playfulness and comfort at touching Jack in the happy tussle are so different from his shyness in TS2 that it's very possible to think the filmmakers want us to believe time has passed between TS2 and the happy tussle.

The editing cut between TS2 and the happy tussle is so abrupt that it is a tad confusing.  Maybe it really is meant to be a temporal transition... much like the abrupt jump from Ennis havind dry heaves in the ailley to the "jolly preacher" scene.

[Front-Ranger]

I also think TS2 happened a few days after TS1. There was too much going on for it to have happened immediately...the washing of the shirts in the stream, the killing of the coyote, the "I ain't queer" scene (which required "commuting"). And the weather was totally different.

[Brown Eyes]

That was a very interesting post JudgeHolden.  And, I think the whole point about the dates of the 4th (July 4th) and the 5th (June 5th) being significant are well-taken.  But, I don't know why that means that either of those dates needs to be imposed on TS1.  In a way I think that July 6-7 (the dates of the full moon) are close enough dates to continue to highlight this range of dates (4,5,6,7) as significant.

I feel pretty confident that the moon for TS1 is one of the strongest representations of the full moon that we see in the film (TS1 and the "prayer of thanks" camping trip seem to include the most direct views of the moon).  Cloud cover (or the movement of clouds across the moon as is seen in the TS1 sequence) doesn't really obscure the viewer's ability to see that it's a full circle/ full moon.

[brokeplex]

Here is something I found posted by Meryl, earlier on another thread.   http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,3653.0/topicseen.html


THE HOLY DAYS

Originally posted by - jscheib (JeffWrangler) on Thursday, March 2, 2006:

I'm sure we can come up with several holidays, but THE high holy day has to be October 13--cover date of The New Yorker issue where the story was first published. There might be danger of schism over the date of Ennis and Jack's reunion: June (story) or September (movie).

Should April 4 and December 19 be Lesser Feast Days? (Birthdays of Heath and Jake)


Posted by sunmoonstars-1 (Daniel):

Hmm, definitely St's days. Saint Heath's Day, Saint Jake's Day. "Did you get the Saint Heath's Day card I sent you?" "Hunnnh?" "I see you did."


Posted by Ellemeno:


Quote
Should April 4 and December 19 be Lesser Feast Days?

Yes! And I'm for June 24th to be one of the highest holy days - date that Ennis runs down the stairs yelling, "Jack Fuckin Twist!" and they kiss.  Every time I see that scene, and they are at the part where they start to pull apart, and Ennis is breathing heavily, I always remember henrypie writing about something like she always expects his shirt to have gone insideout from the sheer force of their kiss.


Posted by jscheib (JeffWrangler):

I'm all in favor of June 24, but as I noted above, we'll have to guard very carefully against schism between the June-ites and the Septembrists (reunion in the movie). Also between the Tire-Ironites and Accidentalists (cause of Jack's death).


Originally posted by Yaadpyar on Friday, March 3, 2006


Quote
By jscheib
I'm all in favor of June 24, but as I noted above, we'll have to guard very carefully against schism between the June-ites and the Septembrists (reunion in the movie).

Why choose? Why don't we celebrate both dates? The movie needs the story and the story needs the book, and we need both, so why do we have to choose? No one chooses between Easter and Christmas, or Passover and Yom Kippur...

The sacred text (script vs. story) is slightly different also, so the observance of June and September would be also different. The more holidays the better, I say. But this is going to be hard to explain to my boss (why I get extra religious holidays).


Posted by starboardlight Saturday, March 4, 2006:

So far we have Oct 13 as the birth of our faith.
June 24/September to celebrate the reunion of our Gods.
I offer up the Full Moon of July which illuminates their love.
I also think the Entire month of August will also be significant.


Posted by newyearsday:

Now as for another date, I will personally always celebrate December 9th, as it was the first day this movie was officially released to the world, to the masses (albeit only in LA, NY, and San Francisco, but you've gotta start somewhere). It wasn't just a premiere for the lucky few. It was cosmically released for us all on that day.

[Brown Eyes]

Thanks broketrash.  Yep, there are certainly hosts of significant Brokie dates and dates surrounding the production of the film, publication of the story, etc. that are very important to note.

In this case, the dilemma is figuring out the dates and chronology (as precisely as possible) within the narrative of Brokeback Mountain (using all the tools that we have, including story, screenplay and film clues... including visual clues in the film).  There are inconsistencies and odd things that come up in the time line of the story as it progresses... and we can try to untangle all of that as we move through the story.

For now, the question is 1963... and figuring out the dates of key events. 

To re-cap... Here's what we seem to know so far...

April 10, 1963 - Thresher sinks
June 5, 1963- Jack and Ennis meet at Aguirre's trailer
June 7, 1963 (full moon)- Jack and Ennis's first night on Brokeback
July 6-7, 1963 (full moon)- TS1
August 13, 1963- first snow/ Ennis wakes up in the snow


Two of the most interesting questions at the moment seem to be how to figure out TS2 and the happy tussle.  Is there anyway to resolve these questions?

About the question of TS1 and the full moon... beyond the visual representation of what appears to be the full moon being revealed from behind moving clowds...  the screenplay also says, "the moon is full up, notched past two in the morning". 

It really is interesting to think about how many of the really significant moments seem to cluster around the beginnings of months and the particular sequence of dates, 4,5,6,7 lining up as important both in the '63 summer and later down the line in the story.

[Brown Eyes]

Bump

[southendmd]

Happy June 5th, Brokies!

Jack-and-Ennis Meet Day!

With great thanks to JudgeHolden.

(Something was nagging at me this morning, but I couldn't think what it was.  Was it someone's birthday?  No.  Now I know...)

[Brown Eyes]

Happy June 5th, Brokies!

Jack-and-Ennis Meet Day!

With great thanks to JudgeHolden.

(Something was nagging at me this morning, but I couldn't think what it was.  Was it someone's birthday?  No.  Now I know...)

Yeehaw Paul!!

That's such a great picture.

And, the whole topic of June 5th is amazing indicating the tremendous bookend pair of this trailer scene with Ennis, Jack and Aguirre (and the negated "wedding ceremony" with Aguirre's "no, no, no") and the final trailer scene with Junior and the discussion of her wedding.

It's such a great explanation of the chosen date of her wedding, June 5th.

[Shakesthecoffecan]

It's such a great explanation of the chosen date of her wedding, June 5th.

That is amazing, sent a shudder down me spine!

[optom3]

That is amazing, sent a shudder down me spine!

I love the fact that we clebrating June 5th, canwe celebrate July 6/7 s well. In fact we could do the whole July 4th thing then without a pause continue on through July 5th hangover and onto July 6/7.

[Brown Eyes]

JudgeHolden (earlier in this thread) really deserves the credit for figuring out the possible implication of the date June 5.

Yes, the whole sequence of days with the numbers 4, 5, 6, 7 seems significant... June 5 (day J& E meet/ Junior's wedding), 6 (preparing to go up the mountain '63), 7 (first night on Brokeback) and then July 4 (fireworks scene), July 6-7 (the night of TS1 in '63).


I think the determination that Junior's wedding day be explicitly stated as June 5 has always caused some confusion until this possible connection with the meeting between J & E was suggested.  This is because June 5, 1984 would have been a Tuesday and an odd day to pick for a wedding.  I think the explanation of that particular day being especially significant for J & E is a very strong and compelling idea.

[Shakesthecoffecan]

JudgeHolden (earlier in this thread) really deserves the credit for figuring out the possible implication of the date June 5.

Yes, the whole sequence of days with the numbers 4, 5, 6, 7 seems significant... June 5 (day J& E meet/ Junior's wedding), 6 (preparing to go up the mountain '63), 7 (first night on Brokeback) and then July 4 (fireworks scene), July 6-7 (the night of TS1 in '63).


I think the determination that Junior's wedding day be explicitly stated as June 5 has always caused some confusion until this possible connection with the meeting between J & E was suggested.  This is because June 5, 1984 would have been a Tuesday and an odd day to pick for a wedding.  I think the explanation of that particular day being especially significant for J & E is a very strong and compelling idea.

So next year will be Alma and Kurt's silver wedding anniversary. They are probably grandparents by now.

[Ellemeno]

Ennis a great-grandfather.

[chowhound]

The following is a timeline i posted on another board some while ago. I htought peole might like to take a look at it on this board:

Aha! I think I found it!
________________________________________
Revised timeline for Brokeback Mountain
by chowhound (Sun Nov 18 2007 12:16:52)

This is a  further revision of the timeline I  reposted a few days ago. The main revision is to do with Ennis’s divorce and when the meetings between Jack and  Ennis took place after that divorce. See footnote *2. As before, ss=short story and sp=screen play.

1941 K.E. del Mar born

1943 Jack and Ennis born (Sept.-Dec.)

1952. Ennis and K.E. forced to look at Earl's mutilated body by their father

1957 ? Ennis's parents killed

1963:

May 7 Jack and Ennis meet

May 8 Full moon

May 24 Elk and potato dinner

June 7 TSN1. Full moon

June 8 TSN2

June. Ennis and Jack switch routines

June. Ennis and Jack move the sheep further up the mountains

July. Aguirre spying

July. Hailstorm and sheep tangle

August. Snow. Forced to leave Brokeback. *1.

Nov. Ennis marries Alma Beers

1964:

Jan. Alma pregnant

spring: Ennis employed shovelling asphalt

spring: Ennis and Alma see "Surf Party" (1964)

spring: Jack returns to Brokeback

autumn: Alma jr. born

1965:

winter: Jenny born

1966:

July 4. Alma, Ennis and the two children attend Independence Day celebrations.

August. Jack meets Lureen at rodeo

1967:

Jan. ?Bobby born.

Sept 27 Jack and Ennis re-unite in Riverton

Sept 28-? Wyoming campsite

[1967-83:
"Years on years they worked their way through the high meadows and mountain drainages, horse-packing into the Big Horns, Medicine Bows, south end of the Gallatins, Absarokas, Granites, Owl Creeks, the Bridger-Teton Range, the Freezeouts and the Shirleys, Ferisses and the Rattlesnakes, Salt River Range, into the Wind Rivers over and again, the Sierra Madres, Gros Ventres, the Washakies, Laramies, but never returning to Brokeback." ss. p.17]

1971:

Girls on swing scene

Jack driving tractor scene.

1972:

July Ennis receives postcard from Jack ("See you in a couple of weeks") [postmark: July, 1972.]

July/August Blue parka scene. 14 hour drive for Jack.

July/August Ennis leaves for Big Horn mountains. Almost forgets his tackle box.

July/August Jack and Ennis meet up in the Big Horn Mountains. ["Jack comes out of the tent, the intense pleasure of being with Ennis all over his face." sp. p.58]

August/September Jack with Bobby probably driving one of the "new models" Lureen mentions to Jack before he leaves for the Big Horns.

1973:

Alma: "We could still smarten up, head over to the church social" (sp. p.60).An episode from "Kojack" is playing on the TV.
-

Ennis: "If you don't want no more of my kids, I'll be happy to leave you alone." (sp. p.60)

1975:

Nov. 6 Alma and Ennis divorce. *2.

Nov. Jack drives up to be with Ennis. Rejected.

Nov. Jack goes to Mexico.

Dec. Jack meets up with Ennis? Jack says "see you next month, then..." (sp. p.63) in the "rejection" scene. *2.

1976

April. Jack receives the “divorce” postcard. Drives up to be with Ennis.  Rejected.

April. Jack goes to Mexico.

May. Jack meets up with Ennis? Jack says “see you next month, then…”(sp.p.63) in the “rejection” scene.*2.

1977:

Nov. Thanksgiving weekend. The two Thanksgiving dinners.

1978:

Mountain scene. Jack suggests that Ennis might move to Texas.
-
Ennis meets Cassie.
-
Jack and Lureen have dinner with the Malones. [Banner behind bar reads "Welcome to the 1978 Benefit Dinner, The Childress County Children's Home"]

1979:

Bar scene where Cassie asks Alma Jr. "...your daddy ever gonna see fit to settle down again?" (sp. p.77) [sp. notes that Alma is 15]

1983:

May. Hail Strew River Drainage. Final time together:

(a) Jack: "tell you what...truth is, sometimes I miss you so bad I can hardly stand it." (sp. p.80)
(b) Asleep in tent, Ennis curled around Jack.
(c) The quarrel. Jack: "come here...it's alright, it's all right...damn you Ennis". (sp. p.83)
(d) Flashback to Brokeback, 1963. The Dozy Embrace.
(e) Jack watches Ennis's truck as it drives away.

July. ? Final scene with Cassie

August/Sept. ? Jack dies.*3.

October/early Nov. Ennis phone call to Lureen [Ennis's postcard to Jack had proposed they meet at Pine Creek on Nov 7] *4.

Nov. ?Ennis visits the Twists

1984

spring: Alma Jr. visits Ennis. [Alma is 19]

June 5 Alma presumably marries Kurt.

NOTES:

*1 I prefer these dates with the first full moon we see occurring in May and TSN1 taking place at the next full moon in June. I chose the May date in part because, when Jack and Ennis are first going up the mountain, the foliage has the very light green look of spring (May) rather than the somewhat darker green of full summer (June). It also gives Jack and Ennis a longer time together after TSN2 before they are forced to leave Brokeback. But making everything a month - or full moon - later also works.

*2  One possibility is that what the judge says here is an “interlocutory” decree and not a final decree. The final decree would then have been granted some months later – say, in March or April of the following year. If Ennis sent Jack that postcard shortly after receiving the final decree, then Jack would have probably driven up in April and his reference to their meeting next month would point to May.

Another possibility is that the judge’s pronouncement is final but that Ennis spends some time getting things sorted out before sending Jack that postcard. This again could result in Jack’s driving up in April.

In general, a number of Brokies feel that it is much more likely that the meeting referred to would take place in the spring and not in wintery December. There is some textual support for this. In one of the earlier scripts for Brokeback Mountain, Jack’s line reads: “I’ll see you first week in June, then.”

*3 The exact time of Jack's death is unknown. Jack has presumably gone to Lighning Flat for a few days before heading back to Texas after his May meeting with Ennis which is when he must have said to his father that he would be returning with "another fella" (sp. p.90). OMT then goes on to say "...but like most of Jack's ideas it never come to pass". (sp. p.90). Therefore, I think a fair amount of time must have passed between Jack's offer and his death. If Jack had died shortly after his return to Texas, surely OMT would have put it differently.

*4. I'm assuming here that Ennis's postcard - the one stamped "deceased" - is returned to Ennis before Nov. 7.

[Brown Eyes]

Hey Friend!

Thanks for posting that timeline!  It's so fascinating to see how different people have interpreted different events and the different clues people use to construct the timelines.

Your argument for the meeting between Jack & Ennis being May is definitely interesting.  I've not heard that suggestion before. 

I personally am still more convinced by the June scenario.  My feeling is that early May on Brokeback would look a lot more wintery... It seems to me that there would be many more indications of snow and traces of winter in such a location.  And, in talking about the concept of the "summer of 63", early May just seems too early to me. The more specific reason that June makes more sense to me is the reference to the Thresher in the short story. My impression is that the conversation between J & E that involved the Thresher took place relatively early in their acquaintance.  And, it's specifically says the "Thresher lost two months earlier... "  And, it's known that the Thresher sank on April 10, 1963.  But, an interpretation of the timeline of Jack and Ennis's friendhip based on that date is contingent on how far into their friendship one believes that discussion took place.  At least we know it was prior to TS1.

I'm also still enamored of the symmetry between June 5, 1963 (the meeting between Jack and Ennis) and Junior's wedding date (June 5).

[chowhound]

Hi atz 75,
   Thanks for your comments. My timeline, by the way, is for the movie alone in which the sinking of the Thresher is not mentioned. Indeed, it may be significant that Diana Ossana and Larry McMurtry, in adapting the short story, choose not to include that detail, making way, thereby, for the longer timetable for the summer of '63. But, as I say in footnote 1, the shorter timetable is perfectly workable.
    As for the likely weather conditions in Wyoming in the mountains in May - for that, I'd have to check with somebdy else. I have almost all the Call Sheets for the movie and can tell you that the early mountain scenes were shot on 21-23, June. But this, of course, is in Alberta which is considerably North of Wyoming.

[chowhound]

Hi DE,
  I've sent you a PM on this one.

[chowhound]

I have just reread Jack's first postcard to Ennis and see that, in the timeline I posted a few days back, there's a mistake in the dating of their reunion. So, under 1967, it should read:

Sept. 24. Jack and Ennis reunite in Riverton.

Sept.25-? Wyoming campsite.

So please amend. Sorry about that.

[mouk]

The divorce is on 6 November and (I think?) the Deceased card indicates that Ennis wanted to meet Jack on 7 November.

This can't be no coincidence - could it mean that Ennis is trying to reverse the clock, have a new beginning with Jack the day after the divorce (be it some 7 years later...)??

At the very least this looks like a pair of bookends

[Sason]

Bump

[Mandy21]

I remember To/oP Bruce did a huge analysis of this over on IMDB years ago.  I wonder if this can be found here on BM somewhere?

[Front-Ranger]

He posted about 200 threads in IMDB Remarkable Writings Rewound but I didn't find it there, can you?

[Mandy21]

Well, I've sat here spending an hour looking for it, Lee, to no avail.  It's gotta be there somewhere.  Several people, including me when I was a BM newbie, chimed in, and we had a good debate, and it ended up being a beautiful document that could stand up to any scrutiny.  We were quite proud of it, I recall.

Maybe To/oP will do us a favor and chime in here.

[Front-Ranger]

I'll send him a PM.

[southendmd]

Bumping this early for Throwback Thursday.

I keep thinking about Jack and Ennis fifty years ago.  They just met last week on June 5 (perhaps).  They're talking about the Thresher, and having a grand time. 

To think they were only together for a few short weeks of summer.  Makes me think of this:

Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?
Thou art more lovely and more temperate;
Rough winds do shake the darling buds of May,
And summer's lease hath all too short a date;
 
Sometime too hot the eye of heaven shines,
And often is his gold complexion dimm'd;
And every fair from fair sometime declines,
By chance or nature's changing course untrimm'd;
 
But thy eternal summer shall not fade,
Nor lose possession of that fair thou ow'st;
Nor shall Death brag thou wander'st in his shade,
When in eternal lines to time thou grow'st:
 
So long as men can breathe or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.

--Shakespeare, Sonnet 18

[southendmd]

A bit OT, but I've always like this sonnet.  Apparently, the subject of the poem (and many of the early sonnets) is thought to be a young man. 

I love the image that the beloved's beauty is everlasting, contrasted to the brief beauty of a summer's day.  Also, the idea that loves lives beyond death. Very appropriate.