Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
What if Jack gave Ennis an ultimatum? Come with me to Mexico or it,s over.
jpwagoneer1964:
--- Quote from: tiawahcowboy on May 30, 2006, 11:29:24 am ---While the following is INSERTED INTO movie's last scene with Jack and Ennis together, Annie Proulx wrote it as being something that happened AFTER the two guys split up in 1983.
The first quote is from the trailhead parking lot and it took place with Ennis talking to Jack, who is already in his own truck ready to drive off. Ennis waited until the last minute to tell Jack that there was a change of plans.
In the text, there is triple line spacing between the above and the below to show a time lapse and/or a change of location. I say that it is both.
IMO, "Let be, let be" is Jack's response to the "Nothing ended, nothing begun, nothing resolved" situation when he was last with Ennis. I just believe that Jack decided to "let Ennis be' and get on with his own life without Ennis.
Ennis's setting all the rules for his relationship with Jack made Jack miserable. Because of his fear of being found out that he was "queer," even at 39 years of age, it was always Ennis who decided when and where the two would meet. Ennis never wanted to do what Jack suggested after they first "fishing trip" in 1967.
Jack did not have to stop loving Ennis to let him be and take charge of his own life. Annie Proulx's Lureen took on her father's persona and after her father died, she took over the Farm and Equipment company and became Jack's boss (he had not worked for the outfit until Lureen was the boss).
Since this subject thread is in the open forum group, I prefer to believe that Jack just decided to stop trying to please both Ennis and Lureen and move on with his own life. Jack had been a failure trying to please his own father; but, at least his Mom knew that he tried. I just believe that since Jack knew, or at least guessed, that Ennis would never ask for proof of his "accident," he would find a way to get out of the way of his wife and his (sort of) husband.
I am saying that Jack did not have to fake a death to get Ennis to believe he was dead; he just had to have at least two people make Ennis think he was dead and that was Lureen and his father. The way that Ennis talked about "the tire iron" in the motel room in 1967, I wouldn't have been surprised if Ennis mentioned a truck tire iron quite a few times between 1967 and 1983 . . . especially when Jack brought up the subject of them living together.
--- End quote ---
It was on this same trip that jack said"sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it". I don think he would ever give up on Ennis.
alec716:
--- Quote from: tiawahcowboy on May 30, 2006, 10:42:57 am ---
I don't think that Jack even went to Mexico in the first place in the mind of Annie Proulx. Jack misunderstood why Ennis asked if he had been down there and did not ask he why he asked the question. Jack could have responded with, "Why are you asking me if I had been to Mexico, Ennis?" "Mexico" was a simile or metaphorical expression for Jack's sexual activity with other men instead of Ennis.
--- End quote ---
To build on this thought -- whether or not Annie Proulx envisioned Jack specifically going to Mexico for sex, IMO she certainly implied that he was with men other than Ennis and that he sometimes paid for the privilege. After meeting Ennis and before their reunion, and certainly before he had any money, Jack "had been ridiing more than bulls" and lied to Ennis about it. Both the "riding" and the lying may be understandable in the context. Then, after the death of L.D. Newsome, when Jack got his "vague managerial title," Annie whispered that Jack "had some money now and found ways to spend it on his buying trips." Whether his purchases were primarily wholesale farm machines or retail men's favors is unanswered. I am not making any judgment of Jack here -- heaven knows I adore the guy and have felt some degree of his pain -- I'm just making observations.
All that being said, to circle back to the original thought of this thread, I allow myself to believe that Ennis would have gotten himself together, as the expression goes, in the face of Jack's ultimatum. In a way, Ennis gave Jack an ultimatum during their final scene together ... "why don't you then?" in response to Jack wanting to quit him. I think that Ennis' pain at that moment was partly fueled by the sudden realization that he could really lose Jack, and that was more than he could bear. He literally collapsed under the weight of his own ultimatum. I know that Annie says of the way that scene ended "nothing resolved," but maybe just in an immediate sense. Nothing was resolved at that moment, but the door was implicitly left open to some sort of future resolution.
My hope after the final parting scene was that Ennis, in response to the pain of this moment, would slowly work hiimself up to telling Jack when he saw him in November that he was ready for more. I choose to believe that, had Jack lived to make that November trip, Ennis would have told Jack that they could move closer in some fashion. Ennis was not the sort to have put such a message in writing and it would not have fit on a postcard anyway. :) And, as we know, a phone call would have been extremely far out of the ordinary (Annie tells us of only one while Jack was alive). So Ennis was going to open himself up come November... maybe not completely, but moreso than he had.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. Sorry for such a long post... I got on a roll...
welliwont:
2006/06/18 correction: change "want" to "what". ::)
--- Quote from: alec716 on June 10, 2006, 07:20:20 pm ---That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. Sorry for such a long post... I got on a roll...
--- End quote ---
Good grief, don't apologize for posting a long post! You are at BetterMost :) ;D!! Your post has touched on a couple of the enigmas that I have been struggling to pin down. Specifically, when Ennis answers "why doncha then, why doncha just leave me be?" ..." I like your suggestion, that maybe Ennis was saying that in a challenging way. Me, I always take things sooo literally, I thought he was saying that 'cause that is want what Ennis wanted! Of course I couldn't wrap my brain around that concept, that Ennis was literally asking Jack to quit him...
This movie/story is just so hard to pin down, I thought I was going to be able to resolve all the enigmas to my own satisfaction, but I am beginning to think that I will never be able to write my own definite interpretation of this story.
--- Quote ---All that being said, to circle back to the original thought of this thread, I allow myself to believe that Ennis would have gotten himself together, as the expression goes, in the face of Jack's ultimatum. In a way, Ennis gave Jack an ultimatum during their final scene together ... "why don't you then?" in response to Jack wanting to quit him. I think that Ennis' pain at that moment was partly fueled by the sudden realization that he could really lose Jack, and that was more than he could bear. He literally collapsed under the weight of his own ultimatum. I know that Annie says of the way that scene ended "nothing resolved," but maybe just in an immediate sense. Nothing was resolved at that moment, but the door was implicitly left open to some sort of future resolution.
My hope after the final parting scene was that Ennis, in response to the pain of this moment, would slowly work hiimself up to telling Jack when he saw him in November that he was ready for more. I choose to believe that, had Jack lived to make that November trip, Ennis would have told Jack that they could move closer in some fashion. Ennis was not the sort to have put such a message in writing and it would not have fit on a postcard anyway. And, as we know, a phone call would have been extremely far out of the ordinary (Annie tells us of only one while Jack was alive). So Ennis was going to open himself up come November... maybe not completely, but moreso than he had.
--- End quote ---
I would like to believe that... I think that the fact that Ennis stopped seeing Cassie after their last fishing trip supports your hypothesis. I do however have a problem with the way that was done. According to the timeline, Ennis began to see Cassie in 1978, and stopped seeing her in 1983. Five years, damn! For a woman to be dumped so unceremoniously after being in a relationship for five f---n' years just boggles the mind. Cassie says she left messages and notes, and then moved on to Carl. Sheesh, after five years, I think a face-to-face encounter with Ennis would be absolutely necessary to Cassie. How could she just accept this silent brush-off after five f'n years??
J
welliwont:
PS: I like BBM as much as the next Brokie, but if I take two steps back and process the narcissistic way Ennis treated Cassie, that makes Ennis a Bad Person. (Oh yeah, and I tend to be judgmental as well as literal). My mantra, courtesy of Ann Landers is “The true measure of a human is how he or she treats his fellow man. Integrity and compassion cannot be learned in college, nor are these qualities inherited in the genes.”
Sorry to all the Heathens! *ducks into the tent just before the barrage*
jpwagoneer1964:
--- Quote from: alec716 on June 10, 2006, 07:20:20 pm ---To build on this thought -- whether or not Annie Proulx envisioned Jack specifically going to Mexico for sex, IMO she certainly implied that he was with men other than Ennis and that he sometimes paid for the privilege. After meeting Ennis and before their reunion, and certainly before he had any money, Jack "had been ridiing more than bulls" and lied to Ennis about it. Both the "riding" and the lying may be understandable in the context. Then, after the death of L.D. Newsome, when Jack got his "vague managerial title," Annie whispered that Jack "had some money now and found ways to spend it on his buying trips." Whether his purchases were primarily wholesale farm machines or retail men's favors is unanswered. I am not making any judgment of Jack here -- heaven knows I adore the guy and have felt some degree of his pain -- I'm just making observations.
All that being said, to circle back to the original thought of this thread, I allow myself to believe that Ennis would have gotten himself together, as the expression goes, in the face of Jack's ultimatum. In a way, Ennis gave Jack an ultimatum during their final scene together ... "why don't you then?" in response to Jack wanting to quit him. I think that Ennis' pain at that moment was partly fueled by the sudden realization that he could really lose Jack, and that was more than he could bear. He literally collapsed under the weight of his own ultimatum. I know that Annie says of the way that scene ended "nothing resolved," but maybe just in an immediate sense. Nothing was resolved at that moment, but the door was implicitly left open to some sort of future resolution.
My hope after the final parting scene was that Ennis, in response to the pain of this moment, would slowly work hiimself up to telling Jack when he saw him in November that he was ready for more. I choose to believe that, had Jack lived to make that November trip, Ennis would have told Jack that they could move closer in some fashion. Ennis was not the sort to have put such a message in writing and it would not have fit on a postcard anyway. :) And, as we know, a phone call would have been extremely far out of the ordinary (Annie tells us of only one while Jack was alive). So Ennis was going to open himself up come November... maybe not completely, but moreso than he had.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. Sorry for such a long post... I got on a roll...
--- End quote ---
I am with you on this one. When Ennsi says "I can stand this anymore Jack" I take it to mean that since he "can"t fix it" he is ready to move closer to Jack in some fashion. His responsibilities to his daughters are nearly over, I think that was as big a reason as any not to move forward before.
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