BetterMost Community Blogs > The Twist Family Bible Study
My sexual orientation and my positions on gay rights
David In Indy:
--- Quote from: HerrKaiser on September 23, 2008, 06:14:47 pm ---All societies have structure. The structures exist for the common good and general, good operational workings so that the greatest number of people can coexist and move toward fulfillment of individual and group betterment.
part of western (and non western for that matter) culture is based on millenium-old natural standards that have, yes the bad word, religious bases as well. "Marriage" is a foundational aspect of society that has a meaning--man/woman. I understand that their is often a desire to change meanings, but 'marriage' is a term that is not ready for prime time when it comes to redefinition.
The vast majority of people support civil unions which would parallel every 'right' that male/female marriage has. So what is the argument? the majority of the nation wants to maintain an age-old word/meaning, and a small minority wants to disrupt that even though the goals of equality are achieved... Sounds petty to me.
The equal rights in an adult union is not about the name; it's about the rights within. If the equal rights are guaranteed, the case is closed, imo. What the title on the contract says is mute. It hurts no one to walk away from the insistance of specific word-use unless the agenda has been mispresented and there was a more sinister game of political one-upmanship game going on while it was supposed to be about equal rights.
--- End quote ---
I don't think it sounds petty. I find it insulting.
Let's pretend we have two identical restaurants. They look exactly the same and they serve identical dishes, same menu..everything. One restaurant is called "Marriage Cafe" and the other one is called "Civil Union Cafe". The town these two restaurants are located in has told you that you are more than welcome to frequent the "Civil Union Cafe", but you may not, FOR ANY REASON, ever enter the "Marriage Cafe". And why? Because you're not good enough. You're different. They wish to keep things the "way they are" in there.
That pretty much sums up how I feel and I don't find it petty at all. :(
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: DavidInIndy on September 23, 2008, 06:47:13 pm ---I don't think it sounds petty. I find it insulting.
Let's pretend we have two identical restaurants. They look exactly the same and they serve identical dishes, same menu..everything. One restaurant is called "Marriage Cafe" and the other one is called "Civil Union Cafe". The town these two restaurants are located in has told you that you are more than welcome to frequent the "Civil Union Cafe", but you may not, FOR ANY REASON, ever enter the "Marriage Cafe". And why? Because you're not good enough. You're different. They wish to keep things the "way they are" in there.
That pretty much sums up how I feel and I don't find it petty at all. :(
--- End quote ---
That's a nice hypothetical analogy, David. :)
Tell you what, I'm gonna say it, and I point no fingers at any individual, but I don't care who is offended:
Any gay person who is against gay "marriage," full "marriage" rights, exactly the same as available to heterosexuals, not some separate and allegedly equal category of "civil unions," has his own internal issues he needs to deal with and is probably internally homophobic.
Because there is no reason to oppose gay marriage except homophobia and prejudice.
There. I've said it. >:(
CellarDweller:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on September 23, 2008, 06:56:24 pm ---Because there is no reason to oppose gay marriage except homophobia and prejudice.
There. I've said it. >:(
--- End quote ---
Preach on, Jeff! I've never heard a compelling argument as to why there should NOT be gay marriage.
Saying "no" because "It's tradition, this is the way it is" makes no sense to me.
HerrKaiser:
--- Quote from: DavidInIndy on September 23, 2008, 06:47:13 pm ---I don't think it sounds petty. I find it insulting.
Let's pretend we have two identical restaurants. They look exactly the same and they serve identical dishes, same menu..everything. One restaurant is called "Marriage Cafe" and the other one is called "Civil Union Cafe". The town these two restaurants are located in has told you that you are more than welcome to frequent the "Civil Union Cafe", but you may not, FOR ANY REASON, ever enter the "Marriage Cafe". And why? Because you're not good enough. You're different. They wish to keep things the "way they are" in there.
That pretty much sums up how I feel and I don't find it petty at all. :(
--- End quote ---
I don't think that analogy makes sense at all. People are not restaurants, and no one is excluded from restaurants.
If you want a non-human analogy, try this. You or anyone else has the right to make a soft drink, market it, sell it, promote and distribute it, etc etc, but you are not open to using the name coca cola. Already taken.
What I do find interesting is that every here falls back on the name issue and not the core agenda of rights. By avoiding the admission that rights is the issue and if rights are guaranteed, then the name should not matter.
If you think the word is so important to have, why then can you not believe those that want that word specified for traditional use are any less entitled to it?
Marriage was NEVER on the table for gay rights until recent times. The institution was scoffed at by most gays as being too institutional, too traditional, too straight and too restrictive. Changing attitudes, whether they be originated by aging baby boomers who want the transfer of loot easily, or younger generations who desire more traditionality, or anyone else who just wants to be like Mr. and Mrs. mainstream USA....fine. But, it seems by most that the uncompromising need to carry the word 'marriage' on a legallly equal certificate is just a finger in the eye of traditional families who have every right to be traditional if they choose to be.
HerrKaiser:
--- Quote from: Kelda on September 23, 2008, 06:40:49 pm ---But what people are saying here is that ia nto equal in legal rights..
--- End quote ---
I don't know what "people" are saying, but listen to the candidates. Obama, mccain, and current adiministion outlines civil unions as equal.
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