Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Brokeback Mountain: Force of Nature or Nurture?
ednbarby:
This thought just occurred to me: Really, it's society that forces Ennis and Jack to transcend their sexuality. Not their love for each other. Only when they are together, and perhaps moreso for Ennis since he can only be true to his sexual self with Jack (and that's where I mean his love transcends his homophobia), can they truly, completely be themselves. Maybe that's as close to a definition of true love as we can come to: that it's when two people can reveal themselves completely to each other and love all of what each other is unconditionally.
Rayn:
--- Quote from: ednbarby on March 31, 2006, 07:56:58 pm ---We can't help who we love. And we can't help who we're sexually attracted to. When both of those things come together, and passionately, the effects of repressing that emotion are devastating. That's what this movie says to me. But the genius of the movie is that it can say any number of other equally meaningful but different things to different people. There is no one message it beats us over the head with. We can all agree it's a beautiful, tragic love story.
--- End quote ---
YES!
Your story of the explosive affair is believable. The tent scene in BBM is too since it's followed by the more tender scene. I love the line from "Jane Eyre". It's so true. Love is a wonderful, joyful condition, but it hurts too.... sweet pain.
Rayn
Rayn:
--- Quote from: ednbarby on March 31, 2006, 09:36:13 pm ---This thought just occurred to me: Really, it's society that forces Ennis and Jack to transcend their sexuality. Not their love for each other. Only when they are together, and perhaps moreso for Ennis since he can only be true to his sexual self with Jack (and that's where I mean his love transcends his homophobia), can they truly, completely be themselves. Maybe that's as close to a definition of true love as we can come to: that it's when two people can reveal themselves completely to each other and love all of what each other is unconditionally.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, but society is, to me, just one force acting on them from the outside more than the inside even though social conditioning works from the inside too. Their love works from the inside only and is the most powerful of any force. I agree completely with you on what love really is though. "... it's when two people can reveal themselves completely to each other and love all of what each other is unconditionally." Right on!
Rayn
Aussie Chris:
--- Quote from: ednbarby on March 31, 2006, 09:36:13 pm ---This thought just occurred to me: Really, it's society that forces Ennis and Jack to transcend their sexuality. Not their love for each other. Only when they are together, and perhaps moreso for Ennis since he can only be true to his sexual self with Jack (and that's where I mean his love transcends his homophobia), can they truly, completely be themselves. Maybe that's as close to a definition of true love as we can come to: that it's when two people can reveal themselves completely to each other and love all of what each other is unconditionally.
--- End quote ---
Really interesting couple of posts ednbarby, but you lost me with: "Really, it's society that forces Ennis and Jack to transcend their sexuality. Not their love for each other" - I don't understand what you mean. The rest of this paragraph is fine where you say love transcends homophobia (clearly this is true), but I thought it would be fair to say that society didn't want them to be together. So how does it force them to transcend their sexuality? I was also a little surprised to hear you say that you thought Ennis was predominantly more gay than Jack. Now I don't want to start anything here that's been done to death in other threads or forums, and I'm not worried either way, but most people see it the other way around?
--- Quote ---We can't help who we love. And we can't help who we're sexually attracted to.
--- End quote ---
This statement bothers me a little, in a Jerry Springer "It just happened" sort of way. Do we really have no control over this? I think we do, but we allow ourselves to think that we have no control because we don't want to take responsibility for our actions/thoughts/feelings. Now I've had crushes on people too, and even made the stupid mistake for falling for a straight guy. But the point is, at the time I was kidding myself that there was more to our relationship than I wanted to admit, and I didn't want to give it up. This is part of growing up. If we fall for someone, it's not some accident and it doesn't just happen. We allow ourselves to feel that way and we project our feelings on to the other, seeing in them what we want to see in ourselves. Now attraction is just attraction - it's superficial and doesn't require anything in return, so I guess it's safe enough to be attracted to someone and not "help it". But love (that's love - not just a crush) does not happen without an emotional decision from the individual. It puzzles me that we see ourselves as intellectual creatures, but choose to believe that the processes of the heart work to a different agenda. Just my humble opinion.
Btw, I loved your description/definition of love and the Jane Eyre quote - beautiful - totally agree with these.
ednbarby:
Aussie Chris, I understand what you're saying. Really, it's not that Ennis was "more gay" than Jack or vice-versa. Both of them were not all that into having sex with their wives. Ennis keeps his eyes closed the entire time he and Alma are getting it on - in both scenes. In the first one, especially, we see that he does not even want to kiss her (she says "C'mere...," just aching for him to do it, and he pulls away). And even though Jack seems really into it the first time he and Lureen get together in the back seat of her Daddy's car, we know from the dance scene before it that he has resigned himself to being with someone to whom he is *not* sexually attracted because she has money and can better his life.
I guess I just thought of Ennis as being more predominantly gay than Jack because of his apparent disgust at having sex with a woman. But maybe it's more that Jack is the better actor of the two.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version