Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll

[littleguitar]

Yes minchout your the one with the cool Marc Bolan avatar on LJ. Very nice. He was great he was.

Ah yes, Marc Bolan, the sexiest man there was... next to Bowie of course (and Jake Gyllenhaal...)

Glad to see another T Rex fan! 

[MadLori]

Okay, I have kind of a new topic.  This may have been covered in the 200+ pages of this thread, but I've been reading since abot page 220 and haven't seen it mentioned.

The other day in chat we were talking about this, I thought it'd be fun to bring it up here.

What would you want to happen if Jack were to turn up not dead?

Now, we can be confident that this isn't going to happen.  But I think it's interesting to contemplate.  Would you want Ennis to go back to Jack, or stay with Ellery?  As you all know I adore J/E (as I think we all do) but in the context of this story I'm not sure I'd want it.  I've found myself imagining scenarios in my head (watch out, Louise, or I'm going to end up writing fanfic of your fanfic).

Louise said in chat that if Jack showed up not dead, she thinks Ellery would break up with Ennis and send him back to Jack.  I think that's very realistic.  But I can also imagine Ennis going to Jack and spending, say, one night with him...and they both wake up knowing that it's not going to happen.  So Ennis goes back to Ellery, not because he loves Ellery more or because he doesn't love Jack anymore, but because Ennis is a different man now.  He's not the man that loved Jack anymore.  He's changed so much, and Ellery was part of that change, and now he can't go back.

Again, this ain't gonna happen.  But I enjoy pondering these kinds of permutations.

[gn411]

OOO Lori, good question.  What a can o worms to open up.

My thoughts,  It would all depend on the variables. Like where was Jack all this time? Is he still considered legally married to Lureen?  ( she and Bobby would have first dibs at kicking his butt if he were say on a two year cruise with Randall).

I think that would be how Ennis would be thinking.  Why did you let me go thru all that pain for the last few years?  Does Jack want Ennis back after all this time? 

I think that Ellery would really be asking the questions, and so would Ennis's kids at this point.  They are starting to warm up to Ellery, and he them.

[Kazza]

Madlori, a thought similar to that went through my mind the other day. Probably because we’ve been reaching closure on what really happened to Jack.

Now we know that Louise is a canon writer so Jack isn’t about to pop up. In some of the wackier fan fics out there I wouldn’t be at all surprised (amoungst other scary developments) – but it won’t happen here.

Mmmmm…. First I think that Ennis would take time out away from them both to think. Then I think that he would have to go back to Jack. He’s learnt now that he can live and love a man openly, and he would have to give that a go with Jack. He would need to know if it was possible. However, the question is would he do this partly out a sense of obligation – after all he is fairly committed to Ellery now?

I think that Ellery would step back and leave Ennis to come to his own conclusions, whilst letting him know that he was there for him.

Oooo… it’s a toughie.

[opinionista]

Okay, I have kind of a new topic.  This may have been covered in the 200+ pages of this thread, but I've been reading since abot page 220 and haven't seen it mentioned.

The other day in chat we were talking about this, I thought it'd be fun to bring it up here.

What would you want to happen if Jack were to turn up not dead?

Now, we can be confident that this isn't going to happen.  But I think it's interesting to contemplate.  Would you want Ennis to go back to Jack, or stay with Ellery?  As you all know I adore J/E (as I think we all do) but in the context of this story I'm not sure I'd want it.  I've found myself imagining scenarios in my head (watch out, Louise, or I'm going to end up writing fanfic of your fanfic).

Louise said in chat that if Jack showed up not dead, she thinks Ellery would break up with Ennis and send him back to Jack.  I think that's very realistic.  But I can also imagine Ennis going to Jack and spending, say, one night with him...and they both wake up knowing that it's not going to happen.  So Ennis goes back to Ellery, not because he loves Ellery more or because he doesn't love Jack anymore, but because Ennis is a different man now.  He's not the man that loved Jack anymore.  He's changed so much, and Ellery was part of that change, and now he can't go back.

Again, this ain't gonna happen.  But I enjoy pondering these kinds of permutations.

Hey Lori,

I don't even know you and from what I read from your posts sometimes I wonder if you read my mind! Geez, I've been wondering this too, and came to the same conclusions you have. I too pictured Ennis going back to Ellery, because he is no longer the man Jack fell in love with, even though he will always love Jack. And also, just because Jack shows up unexpected, the love Ennis feels for Ellery isn't going to disappear. It doesn't work that way. He will be happy and excited to be with Jack, and he might even try to have a relationship with him. But in the long run Ennis will be missing Ellery and his life with him, because he is used to that.

There is something Jake Gyllenhaal said about Ennis and Jack's relationship that made me wonder if Ennis and Jack would actually work as couple if they had the chance to have a life together. Here it is:

Yeah. I think there's a part of him that wants to progress and wants to change and wants things to move forward, and is constantly kind of pushing Ennis to come out of his shell. But it's that dance between the two of them that I think makes the two of them fall in love. If Ennis were to completely come out of his shell, would the two of them still be in the relationship that they're in throughout the film? I don't know. But yeah, that is a big part...It was a struggle to keep that up while you're feeling lonely.
http://movies.radiofree.com/interviews/brokebac_jake_gyllenhaal.shtml

One thing I have learned from my experiences in the love department is that you need more than love to make a relationship work. We will never know if they would've made it as a couple, but it's something no one has suggested in the endless discussion about their relationship. Would it had worked? I wonder. It's hard enough to keep a long distance relationship going, but it is even harder to make it work under the same roof. I don't know, but this is something I have always wondered.

[littleguitar]

that's a really hard question...

maybe it's just because I've been feeling a little worried about Ellery lately and the way he seems to never be able to do anything good for himself, but I agree that I think he would just step back and let Ennis go back to Jack. Then with the loss of the only real love he's ever had in his life, I'm not so sure he would be able to handle that and things would not turn out so well for him... but there's no question in my mind that that's what he'd do.

As for Ennis, I have no clue, knowing him though I imagine he'd feel really guilty for being with another man while Jack was still out there somewhere. Ok, I haven't said anything intelligent here, lol, I'm going to have to think abou this some more...

Lori if you wrote a fan fic of Louise's fan fic  on this topic, I think i just might read it, LOL

[ranchgal]

Ennis feeling for Jack run deep---but unless Jack was in a coma and just regained his life back, and his emotions would be back where they left off----I am thinking that all the changes that occured between Jack's leaving and them finding each other again---would make them more friends  than lovers in the present.   It is possible that when Jack sees what Ennis has now with Ellery, he won't really want to interfere, and will go on without Ennis, because Jack always had that capacity. It is a hard question, and would be harder to see actually having to be worked through. 

Ennis leaving Ellery who loves him so much to go back to Jack, would make him just as guilty as his ending up in a divorce from Alma because he loved Jack---too much baggage, he will end up broken.
And then there is the anger factor---as in WHERE, WHAT, WHY that will be a major thing to be worked through too.

I feel he probably would have to try to be with Jack IF Jack hadn't changed too much in the time lost--maybe jack is as much a different person as Ennis is right now, and Jack doesn't want to go back there?  IF Jack moved on too---it would easy for Ennis to stay with Ellery.
But Jack has first dibbs--and the big problem I see is IF Ennis goes back to Jack, and it doesn't work out in the day to day---He'll never get the same back with Ellery either, so could he leave what he knows he has now to try to see what he might have, and if he does, he may really lose all the way around.   Too tough to think about in real time.    Lots of hurt either way.

One thing I would really be up in the air about---Would Ellery just let Ennis go because he loves him and knows how he feels about Jack? OR would he fight hard to get Ennis to stay with what they have, and try to convince Ennis he is better off staying with him than leaving? After all, Ellery has never been in love like this before either--and has never had a relationship worth fighting for before-Ennis is his Jack--and somehow I don't see him just letting Ennis leave without major repercussions with in Ellery.  That much hurt and loss after everything else he has lost---might really end Ellery, who isn't nearly as hard emotionally as he likes to pretend.   This question gives me the willies.  YEEWWW, don't see anything but misery in it.


Personally---I think he should stay with Ellery.
I loved him with Jack, but with the changes--I think Ennis is better off where he is right now than trying to go back.

[MaineWriter]

Lori,

You know what your question reminds me of? The movie Castaway. And I think the scenario in that would be what happens, which is what you suggested: Ennis would still love Jack but would choose, in the end, to be with Ellery. He has grown and changed.

Sad, because I also like the idea of Jack and Ennis being together, but I don't think it would happen that way. I am also not sure I believe in the concept of "one true pairing" either in real life or fiction.

Leslie
MW

[yb]

What if Jack is not dead?  I tend to agree with those who think Ellery will leave Ennis and let him get back with Jack.  But seeing as he is so vulnerable in the love dept, I'm afraid his future will be very bleak - will he commit suicide?  There's the possibility because this will hurt much more than his relation with Beagle.  But the reason behind Jack's disappearance for all those years will also play an important role in Ennis's decision.  It'll be such a terrible situation for them I can't even think how will they handle it. 

[Bigheart]

Lori,

You know what your question reminds me of? The movie Castaway. And I think the scenario in that would be what happens, which is what you suggested: Ennis would still love Jack but would choose, in the end, to be with Ellery. He has grown and changed.

Sad, because I also like the idea of Jack and Ennis being together, but I don't think it would happen that way. I am also not sure I believe in the concept of "one true pairing" either in real life or fiction.

Leslie
MW

Oh yeah, I agree Leslie about Castaway. That reunion was so sad.
I can't imagine how tough this would be on Ennis, well on all three of them, but especially Ennis. Right now I honestly don't know who he'd choose for, I mean it is Jack we're talking about.....and I truly don't know who I'd want Ennis to be with. I love both Ellery and Jack soo much....Like Ranchgal said, I don't see anything but misery in it.