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Ennis/Jack/both; book/movie/both?
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on July 07, 2006, 01:14:44 am ---Hmm ... Well, all I can say, Del, is that you and I react to the movie and/or story very differently.
Why did Jack put up with that jerk for 20 f'in years?
--- End quote ---
For those of us who have dated 'Ennis' types, it's extremely understandable why Jack stayed with him for so long. Plus, he only saw him 2-3 times a year and if you love someone, you know why they are the way they are and you deal with it because you love them. Jack knew why Ennis acted the way he did. That didn't make how Ennis acted good or right or less selfish.
Jeff Wrangler:
Thanks for the elaboration, Del (above posts).
I still disagree that Annie Proulx's treatment of Ennis's relationship with the girls indicates that he's a poorer father in the story than in the movie, but I appreciate you taking the time to elaborate.
And I agree that everything about the relationship with Jack always seems to be on Ennis's terms.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: delalluvia on July 07, 2006, 08:29:21 am ---For those of us who have dated 'Ennis' types, it's extremely understandable why Jack stayed with him for so long. Plus, he only saw him 2-3 times a year and if you love someone, you know why they are the way they are and you deal with it because you love them. Jack knew why Ennis acted the way he did. That didn't make how Ennis acted good or right or less selfish.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, Del, I know people who've dated selfish people. And whenever I have talked to them about it, I have said (or at least thought): Forget about that guy (or gal), for god's sake. Get rid of him. He's bad news. And I have dated people like that, too, and that's pretty much what my friends have hinted or said outright (quite correctly) to me. To be honest, I lose a tiny bit of respect for the person -- whether myself or someone else -- who stays in one of those relationships for a long time when it's obvious it's just making them miserable. Don't get me wrong, having been in that situation myself, I understand why people do it, despite the pain. But watching from the outside, frankly, gets tiresome. I'm not rooting for the couple to get together and work things out and live happily ever after. I'm assuming that's not possible. So I'm rooting for my friend to dump the other person.
The thing is, that's not how I respond to Jack's and Ennis' relationship at all. I can't begin tell you how much the opposite of that I feel. Otherwise, you can bet I wouldn't have been hanging around on these boards for five minutes, let alone six months.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on July 07, 2006, 11:38:53 am ---Yeah, Del, I know people who've dated selfish people. And whenever I have talked to them about it, I have said (or at least thought): Forget about that guy (or gal), for god's sake. Get rid of him. He's bad news. And I have dated people like that, too, and that's pretty much what my friends have hinted or said outright (quite correctly) to me. To be honest, I lose a tiny bit of respect for the person -- whether myself or someone else -- who stays in one of those relationships for a long time when it's obvious it's just making them miserable. Don't get me wrong, having been in that situation myself, I understand why people do it, despite the pain. But watching from the outside, frankly, gets tiresome. I'm not rooting for the couple to get together and work things out and live happily ever after. I'm assuming that's not possible. So I'm rooting for my friend to dump the other person.
The thing is, that's not how I respond to Jack's and Ennis' relationship at all. I can't begin tell you how much the opposite of that I feel. Otherwise, you can bet I wouldn't have been hanging around on these boards for five minutes, let alone six months.
--- End quote ---
Dunno what to tell you kat, the complexity of their relationship and the multi-layered characters are reasons I HAVE been hanging around. The heartbreak of loving a man who is so chained by fear that he's selfish in his actions and desires, but you still love him because you know how conflicted he is, how it pains him, makes his life pure anguish at times, how alone he feels. Your friends/family don't understand because they don't know him like you do. So you hang on, trying to help, living with hope that he will see the light, come out of his closet, loosen his chains...but in the meantime, does that change how Ennis treats Jack or his family or heck, Cassie?
No. It doesn't change how Ennis makes those people feel even when they know why he does what he does. And that's destructive to their self-esteem as well and finally, unless the man is interested in coming out, freeing himself, the hope you/Jack/Cassie/Alma might have slowly dies.
The story is a tragedy all the way around.
David In Indy:
In the past I prefered a book to a movie, but lately I enjoy reading the book and then seeing the movie.
Although quite often I find myself feeling disappointed by the movie after reading the book first.
???
And I most definately prefer Ennis to Jack. :D
But Jack is cute too! ;)
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