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Is freedom really all that "free"??

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maggiesmommy GayLee:
right, its not the "price" that I was discussing, but that in this nation that so proudly proclaims freedom for all, that is not the true way of things. sure it has to be bought, my father fought in WWII to buy it, our sons and duaghters are still fighting to buy this illusive thing....and dying....but this battle is not on the battle field...it is in the hearts and minds of our citizens and the people we HIRE to protect and  mandate our freedoms.  whe those elected officials are corrupt, when they are in power for the power and the money, when they can be bribed and sell out to the highest bidder, when they can be lobbioed by special interest groups and sell us doen the river for the almighty dollar and more personal power...we are forgotten, there are no lofty ideals and goals, it is all lip service to get elected again..its all about the money, the power and the vote...IF we really want to see freedom become available for all, we have to make funds available to the people that will speak for all of us, understand the needs to thier constituants and vote for whats right and not what will ge them more power and money.
Of, course, that is my point, not some pie in the sky notion that we shouldn't have to fight for the things we hold dear...we just need to go farther, and include all people....ALL PEOPLE....
gl  

ednbarby:
Word, GL.

And I have to say that very few things piss me off more than when people say, "Well, if you don't like the current administration, change it."  And just how the hell are the rest of us supposed to do that?  I voted.  My husband voted.  I canvassed door-to-door trying to convince people to vote for John Kerry.  I affixed bumper stickers to my car trying to promote it.  I cold-called people for the DNC.  I donated lots of money to the cause.  I did everything I could.  And the bastards stole Ohio with their cheap anti-gay marriage trick.  There was nothing I could do to stop that.  So please don't condescend to me that somehow I have the administration I have because *I* didn't do more to make it different.  That's assinine and insulting.

(Sorry - in a venting kind of a mood today.)

maggiesmommy GayLee:
oh, i hear you,edn, i know i am preaching to the choir...i know how hard we all work...and like i said, all of i t STILL leaves us powerless...because we don't have billions of $ and we aren't powerful people who could advance a political career. i want to be positive, i really do, but when we look at it politically, we are up against a mountain. maybe all we can expect to change are people...maybe thats the place to start....if the majority of people wanted changes, it would get done...
hope I didn't pis you off..i get kinda "pir in the sky" now and then

AND...Jeff....that was great....drop- a house on phelps, and we live in the land of OZ..and if you remember the good witch dropped a house on the BAD witch!!!
maybe we should TRY THAT!!

he is horrible and rude and an blight on our city....
gl

ednbarby:

--- Quote from: maggiesmommy on July 07, 2006, 06:08:28 pm ---oh, i hear you,edn, i know i am preaching to the choir...i know how hard we all work...and like i said, all of i t STILL leaves us powerless...because we don't have billions of $ and we aren't powerful people who could advance a political career. i want to be positive, i really do, but when we look at it politically, we are up against a mountain. maybe all we can expect to change are people...maybe thats the place to start....if the majority of people wanted changes, it would get done...
hope I didn't pis you off..i get kinda "pir in the sky" now and then
--- End quote ---

Oh, no, no, no, no, no.  You didn't piss me off at all.  Del's post reminded me of a sentiment I hear often from the Right and it set me off.  My bad.

And I agree with you totally.  I try to be positive about all this (and sometimes fail ;)), but it gets more difficult all the time.

delalluvia:
Sorry guys, but that's the way democracy works.  I'm sure my right-wing friends were in hell the 8 years Clinton was in office.  Personally, I was pretty happy politically then.

I, too, voted for Kerry, pushed him, advertised for him, and he came awfully close.

Can I complain that he lost?  Yes.  Was I pissed?  Yep.  Can I argue with the way the election went?  No.  That's how democracy works.  How freedom works.

More people than ever turned out for the vote, there was little to no voter fraud reported and Dubya still won by over a million votes, squeaking by to be sure.

If people are led around by their morality meters in a political race, there's not much that I can do other than keep pushing for secular teaching, schooling and equal rights so I can hope their children will be different.

That's a religious problem, not a political one.  Politicos will use whatever leverage they have to win a race and if some people are still trying to live by the rules of a wandering shepherd people's thunder god, politicos will use that as leveraging power and there's not much I can do about it in this country because those people are free to practice that belief and pass it on to their children along with its inherent prejudices.

Freedom was promised in this country by rich white men for other rich white men.  They originally didn't want poor white men part of the voting populace.  But that had to change to win a war.

Women, slaves weren't even part of that 'freedom'.

So I guess we can say we're hypocritical because it took over a century to give blacks and women the right to vote, and since that's the case, then we've been hypocritical from day one.  There were never any 'good old days' of freedom in this country.

Personally I believe we're hypocritical, but taking in everything and in comparison with other countries, I'd say we're still in the top 10 of freedom loving countries.

Are we perfect?  Nope, but we keep trying.  There are some states moving ahead, the gay constitution ban was voted down...progress is slow, but it's coming.

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