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More Tales of the Ignorant and the Hypocritical

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Shuggy:

--- Quote from: ednbarby on July 21, 2006, 09:57:10 am ---He goes, "Yeah, but they should have just stayed single."  (Just like a Republican - leave your teethmarks in that dead argument.)
--- End quote ---
I like that!

ednbarby:
Thanks, Shuggy, and everyone, for all those lovely unsolicited compliments.  ;)

Starbie, that's an excellent point, too, and one I wish I'd have also used.  I also find myself wishing I'd hammered the point home more (or some) that Ennis and Jack did not deliberately get married to cover their homosexuality, as he had postulated.  I did say that Ennis did not think of himself as gay and so getting married and being with women seemed like the natural course of events for him in his life.  But I wish I'd gone on to say that Jack did not marry for that reason, either - he married for money.  And how many among us, female and male, can say we haven't done or would never do that to some extent?  And I wish I'd gone on to say that I think he's applying a double-standard to gay men.  But that one spoke for itself, I guess, in his answer to my final question.  Brevity really is the soul of wit.  If only I remembered that more often.

YaadPyar:

--- Quote from: ednbarby on July 24, 2006, 08:52:43 am ---
And I wish I'd gone on to say that I think he's applying a double-standard to gay men.  But that one spoke for itself, I guess, in his answer to my final question.  Brevity really is the soul of wit. 


--- End quote ---

It's important to have these conversations, not to prove oneselft right, but truly to help someone see that there's a world beyond there assumptions, and it's a place that's richer for everyone.  As far as I can see, folks hold onto their beliefs like superstitions, believing in something that isn't objectively true because it makes them feel safer or protected somehow.  So, to simply yank that away can be destructive, which is why these conversations can be the end of relationships.

But to do what you did, which is to let someone discover the ways that their own beliefs or assumptions don't make sense, is like letting in a little light.  So much hate, intolerance, prejudice, etc., comes from deep seated fear and insecurity.  When you reveal that the object of that negativity is just another human being, with understandable and relatable feelings, experiences and emotions, it builds a bridge of potential understanding.

That's no small thing to be a part of.

ednbarby:

--- Quote from: YaadPyar on July 24, 2006, 02:14:04 pm ---It's important to have these conversations, not to prove oneselft right, but truly to help someone see that there's a world beyond there assumptions, and it's a place that's richer for everyone.  As far as I can see, folks hold onto their beliefs like superstitions, believing in something that isn't objectively true because it makes them feel safer or protected somehow.  So, to simply yank that away can be destructive, which is why these conversations can be the end of relationships.

But to do what you did, which is to let someone discover the ways that their own beliefs or assumptions don't make sense, is like letting in a little light.  So much hate, intolerance, prejudice, etc., comes from deep seated fear and insecurity.  When you reveal that the object of that negativity is just another human being, with understandable and relatable feelings, experiences and emotions, it builds a bridge of potential understanding.

That's no small thing to be a part of.

--- End quote ---

You're right - if I'd hammered it home too hard, it'd have just been off-putting and accomplished nothing.  And I doubt I'd have gotten to hear the much-coveted "touche," and from a self-proclaimed right-wing nut job to boot, nor heard him say at the end of the night, "I hope I see you again and we can talk movies some more."

By the way, the only other time I've ever heard someone say "touche," and it wasn't directed at me, was one day about 10 years ago when my mother-in-law and I were walking our four dogs in Columbus, Georgia around the block on a warm July morning, and this young guy comes jogging by and yells, "Dontcha think it's a little hot to be walking those dogs today?" and Ed's mom yells back, "Dontcha think it's a little hot to be running today?"

Man, I miss her.

newyearsday:
So much wisdom, Celeste. What a different world it would be if, even half the time, we could see the bigger perspective, and take the road of bridge-building rather than reinforcing each other's walls of defensiveness and fear.

Barb, it sounds like the light touch of your questions and look at the end gave this guy an opening rather than shutting him down. It's such a contentious topic, so filled with fear and hate for American men especially, that we sometimes have to tread lightly if we want to make positive change possible for them.

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