Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum

That zany Uncle Harold

<< < (5/10) > >>

nakymaton:
Hmmmm. I don't think Aguirre was looking for an excuse to spy on them. He hired a couple of ranch kids at low wages to tend the sheep for the summer (and the sheep-herding jobs tend to go to the lowest people on the economic ladder -- I think in the story-to-screenplay book Annie Proulx says she had to make sure that Anglo ranch kids were actually hired for sheep-herding jobs in the early 60's). Aguirre could have herded the sheep himself, if he cared that much.

Aguirre probably had to take a whole day to ride up to treeline and back. Big pain in the neck.

I think Uncle Harold and Aguirre's message about him served basically the purpose that Mikaela described -- that he reminds the audience that society still exists, and that the mountain isn't as removed from the rest of the world as Ennis and Jack believe it is, and that family is part of society. (And that's part of the tragedy of the story. It comes up even more strongly when we learn about Ennis's father showing Ennis the murdered man. It's easy to blame "society" for stuff that's wrong, but it's more personal and painful when "society" means one's own family.)

As for Katherine's question about why Jack doesn't seem to care that much... you know, that is odd. The more I think about it, the more I think that an only child might very well have been expected to come down from the mountain when a close relative (the brother of his mother or father) was ill, regardless of how close Jack was to his uncle. If one or both of Jack's parents had extra responsibilities when Uncle Harold was sick, it wouldn't be surprising at all if they wanted Jack to come back to Lightning Flat and help out with the family ranch. So to me, it seems as if Jack's seeming lack of interest indicates how willing Jack is to ignore society (and his family) for his relationship with Ennis. (Imagine the situation flipped around, and Ennis being told that a relative was sick. I imagine that Ennis would at least have been all confused about the conflict between his responsibility to his family and his relationship with Jack.)

opinionista:

--- Quote from: latjoreme on August 09, 2006, 10:29:02 am ---But the Uncle Harold subplot is so elaborate and yet so pointless, when Aguirre could easily have been given a simpler, less complicated reason for stopping by. In a way, Uncle Harold is like the tattooed lady dancing in the bar -- so conspicuous you wonder if she's supposed to mean something beyond just showing that Ennis and Cassie weren't the only people in the bar dancing. Same with Uncle Harold; I wonder if he's supposed to have some metaphoric or symbolic significance in addition to serving the practical function of prompting Aguirre to pay a visit.


--- End quote ---

I can't think of anything else, except perhaps what Mikaela says that it's to show that society still exists. On the other hand, it could also be to show that Jack wasn't as lonely as Ennis in terms of family. In spite of the problems he had with his dad, it seems like he had a pretty united family, considering that his mom went all the trouble to call his boss and tell him about Unlce Harold being sick.

In fact, that scene in particular sort of helped me understand Jack's parent's reaction towards Ennis when he visits them. I'm sure they weren't too thrilled with the fact that Jack was gay, but somehow they accepted him as he was, including his father, IMO. Jack's dad was a hard man, but at least he wasn't as violent as Ennis's dad.  Sure, they didn't get along but that could be for other reasons other than Jack being gay, though obviously that had to count for something. A lot of straight men have bad relationship with their fathers for many of reasons, not necessarily for their sexuality, and that could be Jack's case, IMO.

jpwagoneer1964:

--- Quote from: opinionista on August 09, 2006, 11:14:38 am ---I can't think of anything else, except perhaps what Mikaela says that it's to show that society still exists. On the other hand, it could also be to show that Jack wasn't as lonely as Ennis in terms of family. In spite of the problems he had with his dad, it seems like he had a pretty united family, considering that his mom went all the trouble to call his boss and tell him about Unlce Harold being sick.

 

--- End quote ---
I think Jack was lonely as a child at least for other kids to play with, no brothers or sisters, I doubt that many kids could come all the way to LF to play. There is also a hint in the bookand screen play the Jack might be adopted.

Marge_Innavera:

--- Quote from: latjoreme on August 08, 2006, 01:25:13 am ---Jack doesn't seem all that concerned about Uncle Harold or indicate he might have to go, even back when the docs didn't expect he'd make it. It wasn't, "Oh my god, he's my favorite uncle, and he's only in his late 40s, way too young to die, what else did my mom say?" It was kind of a shrugging, "Guess there's not much I can do about it up here."
--- End quote ---

But you're not told how much contact he's had with his uncle over the years. This might be someone he last saw when he was 11 or 12. And I didn't hear his comment about 'not much I can do about it up here' as being callous. It might be if it were his mother Aguirre was talking about but in that context I heard it as just being realistic. It would take hours to get all the way off the mountain (they're on the upper slopes by that time, remember) and who knows how many hours to get to where his uncle was; might have even taken a few days. That's just the reality in areas where the landscape is on that big a scale.

And I wouldn't see Aguirre as necessarily being rude to the mother when she called. What we see of him is his role as a hard-headed and inconsiderate boss. But people who are like that wouldn't necessarily adopt that persona if the mother of an employee called. If he wanted to spy on his two employees he wouldn't need an excuse or even have to give them a reason.

serious crayons:

--- Quote from: opinionista on August 09, 2006, 11:14:38 am ---In fact, that scene in particular sort of helped me understand Jack's parent's reaction towards Ennis when he visits them. I'm sure they weren't too thrilled with the fact that Jack was gay, but somehow they accepted him as he was, including his father, IMO.
--- End quote ---

Natali, I completely agree. In fact, there was a big discussion of this on another thread a while back. Not only is Jack's mother accepting of Jack's sexuality, but his father's main complaint isn't about Jack's being gay but about Jack's plans never come to pass. Apparently he would have been fine with two men living together if it meant he'd get extra help on the ranch. I think the whole idea is to let Ennis see for the first time in his life that not everybody in the world is homophobic. First Mrs. Twist isn't, but she's so nice that it's not a big surprise. But the fact Mr. Twist -- an obnoxious jerk as well as a rancher who is in many respects a parallel to Ennis' own dad -- ALSO isn't homophobic either must really be an eye-opener for Ennis.


--- Quote from: Marge_Innavera on August 09, 2006, 12:23:26 pm ---But you're not told how much contact he's had with his uncle over the years. This might be someone he last saw when he was 11 or 12. And I didn't hear his comment about 'not much I can do about it up here' as being callous.
--- End quote ---

Me neither. I agree it was a mixture of the ordeal of getting down off the mountain, combined with his strong desire not to leave Ennis.


--- Quote ---And I wouldn't see Aguirre as necessarily being rude to the mother when she called. What we see of him is his role as a hard-headed and inconsiderate boss. But people who are like that wouldn't necessarily adopt that persona if the mother of an employee called. If he wanted to spy on his two employees he wouldn't need an excuse or even have to give them a reason.
--- End quote ---

I agree with this, too. I actually was being kind of flip before; I don't think he'd necessarily be rude to Mrs. Twist. But I think his traveling up the mountain to give the news to Jack puts him in the unaccustomed position of having to go out of his way on behalf of a scrawny-assed ranch stiff, which under normal conditions he would never stoop to do, which is why there's a hint of bemused irony in his "So here I am."

But you're right, he certainly wouldn't need an excuse. Or, if the excuse is just there to explain it to the audience, he wouldn't need that elaborate of an excuse.

Another question: Does anybody think it's odd when, as Ennis rides up after the snowfall, Jack announces right off the bat Aguirre said that his uncle didn't die, before he even gets around to the bigger news -- that they're leaving the mountain? You'd think it would be the other way around, or even that he would have mentioned it later, like "Oh, by the way, Aguirre says my uncle didn't die after all." I, for one, had pretty much forgotten about Uncle Harold by then. If I remembered him, I might have just assumed he had died, which really wouldn't have made any difference in the plot. So why is it important to make a point of saying that he pulled through?

What I'm getting at here is not so much whether Jack would have said that in real life or not, whether he'd be sensitive enough to care about his uncle or whatever, but is there some kind of symbolic significance in making such a big deal about a character who never even appears onscreen?

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page