Author Topic: Op/Ed about gay stereotypes in popular culture  (Read 6838 times)

Offline Lynne

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Op/Ed about gay stereotypes in popular culture
« on: April 03, 2006, 09:46:30 pm »
This opinion piece is very thought-provoking...The general premise is that Brokeback Mountain has elevated the standard for the portrayal of gay characters in movies and television. (I have no argument with that.)  There is some harsh "Will & Grace" commentary, though.  What do you guys think?  Is this right-on? or too extreme?

-Lynne

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.php?id=34993&adid=opinion

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Offline Aussie Chris

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Re: Op/Ed about gay stereotypes in popular culture
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2006, 02:42:57 am »
Hi Lynne, I'm really glad this topic has come up.  I can really see why W&G is copping this criticism.  Although I watched it from time to time and found it somewhat amusing (actually it's only Karen that I like), it has always frustrated me that it never had any balls (pardon my frankness).  It never pushed any buttons, told any truths, or traversed any territory that clearly it had a lot of potential for.  Rather, it stayed safe, silly, and worst of all, covered.  It may not be entirely fair to ask a sit-com to make a serious difference, but I think most try - just think of Family Ties when Michael J Fox takes speed to study longer and gets hooked (drugs are bad M'Kay).  Humour is a fantastic tool to discuss serious issues, I guess, because it feels less like a sermon.

On the other hand, I do think W&G does (or at least did) have its place.  I don't remember there ever being a show before for which the central characters are gay.  Laughable as the show is, there wasn't one before it so it must be acknowledged as a trailblazer - if nothing else it got the word gay on television every week for eight years.  So even if it didn't live up to its potential, while regrettable, we shouldn't completely dismiss it as having served no purpose.  Maybe it helped to bring us to this point where Brokeback (and the soon to be copycats and wannabes) can be made and seen.

I don't know Lynne, I get a little tired of all the shock-jock reporters out there that like to make a big scene, say something "controversial", and get their voices heard.  Let's see them write something as profound and moving as Brokeback Mountain, then maybe they can throw a few rocks at others shows like W&G.  Here's a simple test, if there were a 3 or 4 serious gay-centric television shows on right now, and W&G was just in the mix, would we have as much of problem with its silliness?
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare

Offline Impish

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Re: Op/Ed about gay stereotypes in popular culture
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2006, 10:34:50 am »
I liked the article too.  Thanks for finding it.

But it says that BBM has "full frontal nudity" in it.  No Fair!  The version I saw doesn't have any weenies in it...

This is discrimination!  ;D
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Offline Aussie Chris

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Re: Op/Ed about gay stereotypes in popular culture
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2006, 06:32:31 pm »
But it says that BBM has "full frontal nudity" in it.  No Fair!  The version I saw doesn't have any weenies in it...

I know, when I read this a part of me wanted to wish for a director's cut with a couple of extended scenes (you know which ones).  But very quickly the thought was replaced with "no, don't mess with perfection, and by the way, HUH"?  Are they talking about Jack & Lureen in the car?  (1) It's not full frontal, and (2) It's a woman???  Oh hang on, we do see the same amount of flesh on Jack, and there is the Ennis washing scene, but (3) that's not frontal.  Oh, then there's the skinny dip scene, and there was a willy seen there (from a mile away and for a nanosecond)?

All this teasing is making me "uncomfortable"! :-\
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare

Offline Impish

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Re: Op/Ed about gay stereotypes in popular culture
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2006, 07:36:16 pm »
All this teasing is making me "uncomfortable"! :-\

Stand up, shift your weight from leg to leg several times, a couple knee-bends, then sit down again.  You should be fine. >:D
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Offline twistedude

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Re: Op/Ed about gay stereotypes in popular culture
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2006, 11:33:22 pm »
I think Aussie Chris has it about covered (pun?). No full frontal nudity--who ever SAID there was, anyway? That usually calls for an NC17  (like our rauchy column, with about 600 posts in it..).--but not always..."The Piano" comes to mind---R rated, as I remember.  Different things inspire NC17...or, as used to be, X rating...one cut of "Angel Heart," I'm told, was x-rated because of the COMBINATION of sex and violence in one scene..great scene, as you may know, with great music (and it got an R with about 1 second cut off..).  "Mysterious Skin" chose to remain unrated, but many theaters won't show unrated films. Visually R, but verbally and conceptually X (>Mysterious Skin")...all ver' interesting... 
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« Last Edit: April 09, 2006, 11:39:04 pm by julie01 »
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Offline twistedude

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Re: Op/Ed about gay stereotypes in popular culture
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2006, 11:56:35 pm »
Anyo0ne read the 2003 screenplay? No camera inside the tent in the first tent scene--but your ears work fine! No second tent scene. In the motel, one of them is lying down, but the other sits on the edge of the bed with his feet on the floor (both have pants on). There is ONE kiss in the reunion scene, and when Alma comes out, she only sees Ennis's back, Jack is hidden... verbally, it'[s quite clear what's happening at all times, and there's a little extra stuff from the story in the (very long) motel scene.( 'It must be all that time a'horseback"...etc). Also, the line, on one of the camping trips, "That's one of the two things I need right now" (of a beer). But notably missing is "You been to Mexico, Jack? Cause I've herard what they got in Mexico for boys like you."

But..violoence..I dunno. The scene with Ennis's voice over of his pa taking him and T.E. to see Earl's corpse--you only see Earl's  boots. When Ennis talks to Lureen on the phone, he imagines the same three-men-in-a-field beating a Jack-like person to death. But the corker is the second imagining of Jack's death: it is a repeat of Ennis's pa talking him and his brother to see Earl's corpse, and at first, stops at Earl's boots. But then the camera pans up..to Jack's bloody face.

SO: I think the sex, especially as it is written, had been toned down, after many people had read the thing and rejected it, but, hey, how we all love violence, huh?

I don't think I would have gone back to see it a second time with the Earl's boots--Jack's face in it...~  CLICK TO ENLARGE
« Last Edit: April 10, 2006, 12:09:04 am by julie01 »
"We're each of us alone, to be sure. What can you do but hold your hand out in the dark?" --"Nine Lives," by Ursula K. Le Guin, from The Wind's Twelve Quarters