The World Beyond BetterMost > The Culture Tent
"Somewhere in Time" 1980 film with parallels to BBM?
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: Mandy21 on November 06, 2010, 01:48:22 pm ---Interesting points, Jeff. I'm curious if other gay men on here would reiterate your distinctions?
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Any gay man who would deny my point about a distinction between sex and love is a liar. The whole culture of gay bars--and now hook-up web sites--is built on that distinction--the desire to get laid, not the search for a life partner.
--- Quote ---I was especially intrigued by your last sentence above -- "recognize the possibility of love". Which leads me to my next question, and I vaguely remember addressing this question before a few years ago on here somewhere. We believe that Jack had sex with the sheepherder he was with up on the mountain during the spring before he met Ennis. Are we to also believe that based on the story and the screenplay/film, that there's no remote possibility that Jack also could have loved THAT man, but just gave up quicker on HIM because it was potentially a first-time, flash-in-the-pan, you're-expected-to-be-this-way-with-your-raging-hormones-away-from-females kind of thing? What if he'd never met Ennis? (Eek, that possibility makes me sick to my stomach.) Anyway, what if Jack had gone back to the mountain and been faced with the other guy instead of Ennis? Could it THEN have finally become love through the passage of time, and the dedication it would have taken to return to the place of THEIR first meeting? Or would it have just been another spring filled with random sex?[/color]
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"We" do? Believe that Jack had sex with his work partner the previous summer? "We" have no idea who Jack's work partner was the previous year. Maybe it was some old Basque who smelled bad and had no teeth? I'm sorry, but it seems like you're asking a lot of theoretical "what-if" type questions here. They just don't interest me. Or maybe I'm just tired because I've spent the whole day cleaning house. :P
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: Mandy21 on November 06, 2010, 01:52:13 pm ---The next point you made that has me intrigued is, was the above your first and only impression of the man? I don't know how many times you saw the film or what age you were at when you did, but didn't you ever in the slightest, think that perhaps he was romantically in love with this woman first and foremost, and THEN would do anything he could do to MAKE it succeed, because he knew it would make her happy as a passionately-committed actress? Cause I've never felt any other way. Perhaps that's the romantic in me, I don't know.
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Well, I specifically said, "my memory," because it's been a very long time since I last watched this film. But, again, my memory is that I never really felt the Plummer character was in love with the Seymour character. He always struck me as a Svengali or a Pygmalian type. Jane Seymour's character and her career as an actress was his creation, and Christopher Reeve's character was a threat to his creation. I never saw Plummer and Reeve as romantic rivals for Jane Seymour.
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: Marge_Innavera on November 06, 2010, 02:26:57 pm ---When you think about it, that's a foundation of the opposition to same-sex marriage. It isn't so much opposition to same-sex activity as to the suggestion that there's something more than that. It's the people who are often accused of being "heteronormative" that are the real threats to the NOM organizers of the world.
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Good thought, Marcia. Same-sex sex activity can always be dismissed as the sin of sodomy, and the participants dismissed and condemned as sinners. It's the suggestion that there is "something more" that's threatening.
southendmd:
--- Quote from: Marge_Innavera on November 06, 2010, 02:33:09 pm ---As I recall, Seymour's character says that her manager has foreseen a number of things that would happen in her career; that he seemed to know just what would happen. So maybe he was a time-traveler too? Now I'll have to read the book!
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Yes, that is why she asks, "Is it you?" when she meet Richard. She, and Robinson her manager, were "expecting" him. I'm not sure if he is meant to be clairvoyant, or just foreseeing the inevitable.
We are told that he has been involved in Elise's career since she was sixteen. Is it more than a manager-actress relationship? Certainly he is protective of her; and dismissive of Richard. However, when Richard asks Robinson if he had aims on Elise as a wife, Robinson becomes very offended, as if ART were more important than just marriage. Doth he protest too much here? Surely, he was eager to "disappear" Richard when Richard professed his intentions. I do love how Elise stands up to him though ("I'm not a doormat you can wipe your boots on!").
I, too, plan to read the book to find out more. I just bought a copy of the old paperback for $1!
Mandy21:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on November 06, 2010, 05:50:06 pm ---Any gay man who would deny my point about a deistinction between sex and love is a liar. The whole culture of gay bars--and now hook-up web sites--is built on that distinction--the desire to get laid, not the search for a life partner.
"We" do? Believe that Jack had sex with his work partner the previous summer? "We" have no idea who Jack's work partner was the previous year. Maybe it was some old Basque who smelled bad and had no teeth? I'm sorry, but it seems like you're asking a lot of theoretical "what-if" type questions here. They just don't interest me. Or maybe I'm just tired because I've spent the whole day cleaning house. :P
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Jeff, I certainly wasn't trying to offend you in any way by my comments. I thought that this, like all other topics on BetterMost, were brought forward so that we could try to understand each other better. You shared your experience and perspective, and I thank you for that. I was just hoping to extend the discussion about this great film amongst others who might have different experiences and perspectives, including myself.
Sorry my questions don't "interest" you. My bad...
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