The World Beyond BetterMost > The Culture Tent
Liberace "Behind the Candelabra"
x-man:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on March 10, 2014, 03:52:45 pm --- 8) ::)
And I didn't miss your point about pedophilia. I just happen to think you're wrong about it, but I have no interest in arguing about it.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for the bears. I appreciated that. Nice talking to you again. I thought I saw you circling around the fire a couple of topic sites further off, but you never came in to warm yourself.
I am embarrassed about getting the names wrong; I don't usually do that. Actually, when I wrote it I was in a hurry. I was on my way to a tattoo parlour for my first tattoo (Someone is tattooed on my heart, why not on my arm?), so I took something for the anxiety and prospective pain--basically, I was stoned. Maybe that is not the best time to write postings.
I didn't mean that every use of "boy" for a man is distasteful--for a friend, or for a group of friends ("the boys") it's fine. Where I do react is hearing it from straight people using it as a personal negative comment about the relationship between a man and a younger man. I have heard this more than once, and from people who would be very upset to be accused of homophobia. But when I brought this to their attention they stopped doing it.
And BRIAN, what do you mean by disgust at Liberace's "treatment of the 'young men' he picked up?" What did he do? I thought he gave them a lot of money and lots of gifts. They certainly knew what they were doing, and they knew why Liberace picked them up. If they want to sell their ass, why blame him? He was a rather pathetic figure; they were not. If you are going to despise anybody it should be them for being such whores.
Front-Ranger:
--- Quote from: x-man on March 10, 2014, 07:47:34 pm ---And BRIAN, what do you mean by disgust at Liberace's "treatment of the 'young men' he picked up?" What did he do? I thought he gave them a lot of money and lots of gifts. They certainly knew what they were doing, and they knew why Liberace picked them up. If they want to sell their ass, why blame him? He was a rather pathetic figure; they were not. If you are going to despise anybody it should be them for being such whores.
--- End quote ---
I was under the impression that brian was disgusted by Liberace's spreading AIDs to the young men, which, back in those days, was fatal.
x-man:
--- Quote from: Front-Ranger on March 10, 2014, 10:34:04 pm ---I was under the impression that brian was disgusted by Liberace's spreading AIDs to the young men, which, back in those days, was fatal.
--- End quote ---
FR, are you sure you have your timeline straight? Someone else will know this better than I, but I thought Liberace's relationship with Thorson and the young men who preceded him were before we knew how HIV was spread. And, I thought, Liberace did not spread HIV to Scott Thorson. Did Liberace spread HIV to anyone? Is this a fact or a supposition? Also, it might be wise when discussing the matter to distinguish between AIDS and HIV. Then, perhaps, it wasn't as important to distinguish between the two as it is today.
milomorris:
Liberace was indeed a top-notch pianist, and a masterful showman. Those are wonderful achievements. He was also a flawed man. Those flaws were a detriment. I think that his life can be viewed as a lesson for young homosexual men: focus on achievements and leave the rest alone.
brianr:
Nothing to do with AIDS. Apparently Liberace had already dropped Scott Thorson by 1982 when AIDS was beginning in the USA.
After 40 years as a high school teacher I have some understanding of the psychology of youth. There is debate as to whether Scott was 16 or 18 when Liberace picked him up, plied him with all sorts of gifts then dropped him 5 years later, having destroyed him, when he found someone younger. Expecting a young man (not much more than a boy) to resist is asking a bit much.
At much the same time I was openly gay at a catholic school and helping young men of the same age come to terms with their sexuality. I found them very attractive but never did anything illegal. I vividly remember one boy Chris. I still dream of him. I first knew something was wrong when I saw he was crying up the back of the classroom. Later he came out to me. He use to visit me (just after finishing final school exams) at my home in the late evenings and talk for hours. Only when I met him a year later and he told me he thought I had been naive did I realise he had wanted me to have sex with him.
I suggested another boy attend a gay youth group in the city and was horrified when he told me an older man had taken him home. I complained to those running the youth group to no avail. That boy later died of AIDS.
You cannot expect a highly sexed youth of 18 to have some sort of morals especially in those days when all gay sex was illegal so support services were thin on the ground.
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